glory

Seriously. I'm surprised at the hate this is getting. The Jays spent 3 seasons gutting nearly every damn prospect they had in their system and still entered this off-season with 3 starters and no depth. I'll take this approach any day of the week over that one. ANd I agree, the rotation isn't even bad.

Price will cost over $200M/7 years. It wasn't going to happen, nor would it have been a smart investment.

Wow didn't realize he was 33 already. I thought he was 30 or something. I don't mind the signing honestly. Underwhelming definitely, but doesn't cost a pick, and the AAV is probably market value for league average starters.

See, this is what the Jays should have done in 2013 instead of the Marlins/Mets trades. Just sign guys as free agents or trade for under the radar starters while biding time for prospects. Unfortunately, there's no Syndergaard/Stroman types in the minors right now to bide time for, but maybe in a couple of years there will be.

You still have to convince them to sign with the Jays. Some times no amount of money can do that.

Yep. I get the feeling the Jays want to develop their own pitching (ala Cleveland), but since no one is really close from the minors, they are going for cheap fixes to add depth and bide some time. It's going to piss a lot of fans off, though.

Jays could do a lot worse than Wandy on a minor league deal. If he's ok with starting the year in Buffalo, then it's a no brainer. Do it.

Payroll is standing pat or getting lower in 2016 from the looks of it. There's no guarantee with Rogers regardless of the contracts on the books.

Don't forget $30m for Price.

Yeah, with Shapiro emphasizing lack of depth, I think they'll try every avenue to get talent without touching any prospects or spending outlandish amounts in free agency. So as you said, waiver claims (like Smoak last year), a Rule 5 pick up, etc. They don't have many expendable trade assets, which is why they had to take from the pen in order to improve the rotation last week, so they'll have to be creative in adding talent wherever they can.

I wouldn't be against Chen, but yeah, I feel the same way. Very underwhelming based on what it would cost. I think Iwakuma is the best option in terms of years/salary, but I don't think he'd want to pitch in Toronto.

It's not going to happen with a $140m payroll. Plus I don't think it's Shapiro's style either. Even though more money can change things (see Friedman in LA), I get the sense that Shapiro will be asked to win on a more modest payroll (less than $140m) going forward rather than a big one.

Jays need to fill out an entire AAA rotation too. Even the Forever Bison himself Chad Jenkins is out of options and can't be a AAA option anymore. Maybe there is a sleeper out there that Shapiro can find.

Price has a ton of milage on his arm and is in his 30's already. Pass. Jays need to develop their arms.

He traded two SS's with a combined nine years of control left so he could give Jose Reyes $96m over five years from ages 30-34. He spent years talking about building a staff of hard throwers who could strike guys out, only to send a shitload of prospect capital so he could pay $90m combined for Mark Buehrle from ages 34-36 and R.A. Dickey from ages 38-41 (and I like Buehrle). He valued defense and framing so little from the catcher position that he traded practically every catcher he had so that there was no one breathing behind JP Arencibia, only to spend $82m on Russell Martin two years later while having his media parrot the virtues of framing and defense (if only Yan Gomes and TDA displayed those characteristics). On the other side of being a GM, he took two 20-year old's from A-ball with practically no innings under their belt and put them in the MLB bullpen to start the year rather than let them develop as starters. He let Pompey start the year in the Majors, only to deem him not ready after 3 weeks. He valued Aaron Sanchez so much that he jumped up 3 levels in a season despite not showing a single shred of performance to justify the promotions. And that's just this past season. Does that strike people as someone who has a flippin clue how to develop prospects? And for the 100th time, AA was able to replenish the farm so quickly when he took over because he took advantage of a CBA that no longer exists. The Jays spent nearly $12m on the draft in 2010 and nearly $11m in 2011 (and that's without signing Tyler Beede). There are no more Type B free agents. There are now restrictions/penalties with international signings. He was not going to replenish this system as quickly as he did before. This has gotten off course. I've said my peace about AA enough the past year. I'm just glad he's gone. I'm just telling everyone, don't blame Shapiro if things go sour in 2016 or 2017. What he said about depth and age is 100% correct. The team still has a shot in 2016, and I really hope it pans out, but if you want to sit there and say AA did a masterful job (other than a select few great moves like Donaldson), then I disagree completely.

This I agree with. I've said before the team needed an entire organization face lift. Everyone from the Minors to the Majors needed to be on the same page and have the same vision. I'm far more confident that will be the case with Shapiro. The Jays are in good hands now. Whether it pans out is a different story.

It's amazing how I've done nothing but praise Shapiro and I'm suddenly just a hater. In the Gibbons thread, I said in April the guy had no clue how to use a bullpen, and everyone and their mother said I was crazy, only for "Gibby can't use a bullpen" to be a running theme towards the end of the season. Maybe I can see things with my eyes instead of my heart. AA made one great trade (Donaldson) and he ended the playoff drought. THat doesn't mean the way he got there was the best for the organization. If you can't see that, then go root for the Red Sox and their great vision now under Dombrowski where you can geek out that they got Kimbrel's expensive contract for no reason.

LOL. Yes, because AA didn't seem like the type who'd sign players to huge contracts, or trade his prospect base to acquire players with huge contracts. It's not like he had a history of doing it or anything. No way he would have re-signed Bautista and Edwin beyond 2016. It's not his style. Give me a f'n break. If Amaro is a bad comparison, then Dombrowski. Same s***. It's not sustainable, unless he had 2 or 3 more DOnaldson trades in him.

"Look at our pitching staff! We have Halladay, Lee, Oswalt, Hamels. Unbeatable. Then a lineup with Howard, Utley, Rollins.....we're in good shape guys". - Phillies fans in 2011. I hope you guys are right, but AA's way to building this roster was not sustainable. He left at the right time.

They have a very good team in 2016 (barring some major injuries). After that? I don't want to be a team that makes the playoffs once or twice and then goes on another extended playoff drought. If there's a World Series celebration out of it, then fine, but the goal should still be to build a sustainable team. I think Shapiro took over at the right time because there's more than enough time to retool and be right back in good position in 2017 (whether Bautista/Edwin come back or not), but it will take a lot of work. If this was "2013", and the Jays had 3 or 4 more years with this roster, then I'd be OK with it. The Jays practically had two months with this roster, and then 2016. That's it. Then Shapiro will have to go to work. It's doable, but it's not the great position everyone seems to think it is.

It kind of sickens me that AA was able to leave the Jays as a hero despite what he's left the team with. I know, I know, he was the GM that ended the playoff drought. Top ten payroll and traded damn near the entire farm to do it and left the team with nothing in the upper minors and a core in their 30's. I'm glad Shapiro is here because he's smart enough not to let sentimental attachment dictate his decision making. This roster needs a retool, and thankfully he knows it. Try to win in 2016 while they have the window to compete, but don't sacrifice any more of the future to do it.

AA was looking at dat ERA when he let Chavez go. Sample size was never a glimmer in his eyes.

The reason I think Hendriks might have sustainable numbers is because his control is still excellent in both roles (starting and relief). Delabar was walking 4 per 9 even when he was good so an implosion for him wasn't completely shocking (and the same reason I think Sanchez as a reliever isn't guaranteed either). Hendriks didn't walk anyone, struck batters out, had great velocity, and kept the ball on the ground reasonably well (46%). Nothing other than the normal volatility of relievers is going against him having a pretty good career out of the pen if he keeps that up. Also, to those saying the Jays didn't do their homework on Chavez, the org is run by Mark Shapiro now, and LaCava pretty much makes quotes that one would think would have come out of this forum. They know about advanced stats and likely know what they are getting with Chavez.

Unless Alex has become GM again, I don't think Chavez will suffer the same fate as Estrada in 2015, having to start in the pen so that Sanchez could walk 7 guys in every start for 2 months. If the Jays add one more starter, and Hutchison has options left, then it's a no brainer. Stick Hutch in Buffalo (he'll be needed at some point regardless) and Chavez is the fifth starter.

There was nothing wrong with that quote. Sanchez has thrown more innings as a starter than Osuna and is far more likely of the two to be able to handle a starter's workload. The issue is Sanchez sucks as a starter and Osuna has the repertoire to be one but lacks the innings (and potentially has poor mechanics to be one long term). Both will end up in the pen. It wouldn't shock me if Sanchez is traded either, but that depends on whether AA's mancrush on Sanchez extended to LaCava as well.