glory

I don't see how they can avoid signing either a CF or a RF (with Grichuk moving to CF). Fisher, Teoscar, and McKinney are all LF'ers, and that's being kind to them. Neither of them are going to move Gurriel from that spot (nor should they), and none of them hit well enough to be worth a damn at DH. Not sure how they are going to go about this but they definitely need a OF from outside the org. One name on the FA market that jumps out at me on the pitching side is Porcello. Not because I like him, but because he seems like someone the Jays would sign. There's a Ben Cherington connection as well.

The Jays can sign good free agents to reasonable deals to simply increase the talent on the roster, but outside of that, contention depends entirely on how the young players develop, and right now the guy we all pegged as the franchise player is slightly above replacement level in his rookie season (w/ weight and conditioning issues). As much as I don't want to see another rebuilding year as a fan, it's hard to picture a realistic off season that takes a 95-100 loss team into contention in the AL East.

Who knew his fascination with his own sister was not even close to the most disturbing quality he has.

Hey I'm with you guys. I think 2019 was insufferable and hope 2020 is not a complete repeat of it. I don't think tanking in baseball is even necessary. But what we want and what Shatkins will do are two different things.

I didn't say the Twins are a bad team, but they are in a really, really bad division. The path is easier for them to make the playoffs. If the Jays were in the Central their mindset might be different.

The Twins are 32-13 against the White Sox, Tigers, and Royals. So 30% of their games have been against those three teams so far. Their last 12 games of the season are also against those three teams. The Jays don't have that luxury. They have one historically bad team in their division, not two and a half. I actually agree that we should try to add good established players wherever we can for next season, especially in the rotation (and CF), but do you really think Shatkins is going to do that? They have given no indication that they are done rebuilding, and the team isn't exactly showing signs of being a few pieces away. My guess is Shatkins will try to field a contender in 2021. I'd be shocked if they gave any effort to do so in 2020. More likely they will use 2020 to give Pearson, Kay, Zoinks, Thornton, Hatch, Merryweather, Murphy, and the truckload of SP candidates on the 40 man roster a chance to see if 2-3-4 of them can stick. Unfortunately I think another factor is Rogers and whether they want to increase payroll next season. I'm not sure what their situation is as I don't follow them or hockey, but I've heard about a bad hockey deal they made multiple times, and that could factor in as well.

The team will have no illusions of competing next season. I don't think that's a wrong statement. It may not be as blatant/annoying as 2019, but likely more of the same focus on development and giving fringey younger players playing time to see if they can be long term pieces. I don't necessarily agree with it, but that seems to be the direction. Now if young players overachieve/develop quickly, there is some luck involved, and so on, then maybe it happens organically, but holding on to Giles when they already essentially traded him when he was hurt and when he only has a year of control left on a rebuilding team seems very unlikely. I highly doubt Shatkins views 2020 as anything other than an extension of 2019, except possibly with emphasis on developing the rotation (whereas 2019 was developing the position player side).

Or in the absence of that, the Jays could put a high K reliever coming off a down year into that spot and hopefully get an asset at the deadline. Shatkins has been pretty good with scrap heap RP pick ups every year. Keeping Giles only makes sense if we intend on competing next season, and that sure as hell won't be the plan. I just hope he's moved for an actual package of prospects and not Ian Happ or some other failed/declining prospect who the team wants to rehabilitate.

According to Rosenthal he was already traded to the Yankees for 3 prospects and that’s when he had an injury (so that combined with trading with Cashman means the return was probably going to be lukewarm at best). I think he will be moved in the winter. Maybe they hold him until next year's deadline but that depends on how much they want to pay a closer right now.

Atkins hoards prospects regardless of how marginal they are for as long as he can. Pompey hasn't been good for four years and he was still set to make the roster this season until he got hurt. Keeping Alford on the roster in 2020 is exactly the type of thing Atkins would do to avoid losing him for nothing. If he dumps Alford in the winter, then there must be a backstory that none of us know about. I don't mind playing Alford, even if all he provides is D and speed he's still an upgrade at CF over anything we currently have, but hopefully all of this is moot when Giles is traded for a young CF who can actually play CF and hit a little bit.

We might disagree on Alford and Fisher, but at least our universal hate for McKinney brings us together.

No way Shoemaker would get a guaranteed 2nd year on the open market right now. More likely what BTS speculated, they’ll try to work out a 1 plus 1 deal.

Tellez was apparently taken out of last night's game because he wasn't running hard. Good on Montoyo. Put Tellez in the doghouse so Shatkins doesn't count on him to be a regular next season. Charlie thinking long term.

Yeah I'm seriously baffled when people act shocked when others express disappointment in Vlad's numbers this year. It's like, yeah, he's 20 with a 110 wRC+ (or whatever it is), which is remarkable in a normal situation, but with his peers hitting the ground running at a similar age + expectations due to minor league performance, are some of you really surprised at the disappointment? Didn't projection models have him having a 5 WAR or something crazy like that before the season (forgot what it was)? Yes, Vlad is excellent for his age, and will likely be a star, but the narrative that we should be thrilled with his performance to date is ridiculous. It's not like no other 20 year old's or rookies are killing it right away. Regardless he will be fine long term.

Manoah and Vlad about to be best friends confirmed.

The Yankees aren’t giving up a prospect to save $5m, and the Jays aren’t going to pay a 37 year old DH $20 million in 2020 when they have so many other pressing needs. Edwin isn’t coming back unless he’s bought out and is willing to sign for nothing. Some team will sign him for decent enough $ this winter. It won’t be the Jays. As far JD, yeah I don’t see it happening unless the Jays make by far the best offer, and that isn’t going to happen.

Was Luciano actually hurt or was this a fraud the whole time? Either way, I'm impressed by their determination to hold on to him without giving him too much MLB exposure.

I get the sense Buchholz is coming back next year. He’s probably going to keep the team in the game most nights and provide some vetrin leadership to a young staff.

I was getting intrigued by Teoscar's post call up numbers (June onwards) but he's regressed back down to a decent level since then (114 wRC+) with some scary high K numbers (35% K%). I think he is what he has shown so far. A streaky power hitter who strikes out a lot and walks a decent amount of times. Maybe a rough sketch of Domingo Santana. That's not going to be very valuable on the trade market. I tend to agree with your earlier post of just letting Alford play CF everyday next season and pray he turns into even prime Pillar with the bat (85ish wRC+). I think I'd take that over Fisher, Teoscar, and McKinney making my eyes bleed watching them play D.

I am looking at the FA list and possible trade options and can't think of a single CF the Jays could sign or realistically trade for that could help this team for the next few years. Dyson would be a decent one year stopgap but that's about it. They really need a CF who can be around for a few years. Would the Braves move Inciarte? Between Fisher, Teoscar, McKinney, Pearce, etc, I'm not sure I want Atkins to sign or trade for a OF unless the player is established. I don't know why this regime has disregarded defence so much, especially in the OF. I understand they didn't have to give up much to get a lot of those guys, but maybe there was a reason for that.

There’s a good chance Luciano turns into nothing, but they were able to carry him all year and keep his rights. If he turns into even a marginal asset it will be a win for the org.

Only thing i can think of is they think he'll become Lewis Brinson against MLB pitching, but you can't really know for sure unless you give him big league AB's. I mean, McKinney is playing RF tonight. What's the point of playing him and Davis over Alford? Davis is almost 28, and McKinney is AAAA waiting to happen. It's very odd. Gibby didn't play him either so it's not like it's a Montoyo thing. The org might not like him for one reason or another.

Having vetrins around can come in handy.

Not counting tonight's game, Thornton...... Against NYY/BOS/TAM: 10 GS, 8.73 ERA, 40.2 IP, 8.06 K/9, 4.48 BB/9, 11 HR Against everyone else: 18 GS, 3.75 ERA, 93.2 IP, 8.74 K/9, 3.36 BB/9, 12 HR AL East struggle is real.

Biagini: 0 IP, 5 H, 6 ER, 1 BB, 0 K, 3 HR Yikes.