glory

I tend to agree that Thornton might be better served as a multi inning reliever, but he made some adjustments in September and saw great results. When someone tinkers with their repertoire and results change positively, then it's better to see if that is sustainable before pulling the plug. I'm fine with him in the rotation for now, even if everyone were healthy. The Jays need some upside in the rotation aside from Pearson. Thornton might have some if the pitches he learned from Buchholz helped him out long term.

Who has he called a racist aside from Huff (who has a pretty dubious rep for his Twitter account)? I vaguely remember him agreeing with Keith Law about some vague language in a quote from a Jays official which Law (not Stroman) brought up as racist. I don't think the list is as long as you think it is, unless I'm missing a bunch. Plus you can't just assume he's playing the race card out of the blue in every single case. As far as him taking things personally, Jose and JD took everything personally too. JD told a man FYSMC in front of the camera. These guys were passionate dbags as well. Stroman is just vocal about it on Twitter. I never said I agreed with all the stuff he wrote about, but I'm also not going to say he's a headcase and a bad teammate because of it. Like I said, as the league gets younger, the more players are going to have grown up in the social media era. Baseball has a much lower presence than other sports when it comes to social media posts, but a lot of young athletes are just as vocal as Stroman is. Just not in baseball. I'm not a LeBron fan (I actively root against him), and I do think his "social justice only when it suits me" attitude is obnoxious, but he's not a moron. He's playing to his audience/fanbase, just like Stroman is, just like everyone who overuses social media platforms. You can agree, disagree, whatever, but being a dbag on social media or even on the field is only a bad thing if it impacts the results on the field. Stroman was not a problem when the Jays were making the playoffs, and other than Grichuk hiding behind a Huff Tweet, there hasn't been much evidence of former teammates bashing him either (unless I missed it). For the record, I'm happy with Ryu/SWR/Kay instead of Stroman, so not sure why you think I'm Stro's biggest fan here. But there is a reason why MLB can't attract a younger fanbase, it's because their fans are conditioned to believe players like Stroman and Bautista are problems. The league will become more popular if there are more Stroman's, JD's, Jose's, etc, in it, and fewer Grichuk's.

Over a 60 game season, the Roark's and Anderson's of the world have much less value as their main selling point is the ability to soak up innings over a long season. Over 60 games, especially with the schedule the Jays have, it's going to be pretty important to get Pearson as many starts as possible (after 7 days). Practically everyone except Ryu should be disposable for Pearson, although Roark's salary pretty much guarantees him a spot.

I don't know (or care) if Grichuk is a hard worker. It's Stroman that is the point of contention here, and he's clearly a hard worker, even if he has to shove it in everyone's face. The actions prove him right. He's also trying to promote his own brand, which caters to motivation and having a chip on your shoulder, so being obnoxious on social media to sell himself is basically what all people in that line of business do. Grichuk is unlikable to me for a different reason. The people who harp about "respecting the game" (Grichuk, MadBum, McCann, etc) are typically the ones making it uncool to watch it. I'd rather have a talented dbag on my team than whatever Grichuk is supposed to be.

First off, Puig can't find a big league job, and might sign with the Orioles due to lack of other options. Is every GM in baseball buying into a false narrative with him? He's not even as good as Stroman, much less better. If Stroman were a free agent right now he wouldn't be begging for a job. There would be a market for him. Secondly, MikeM brought up a bunch of examples of young players mentioning how supportive Stroman has been to them. His work ethic is undeniable. He shows a ton of passion on the field, even in 2019 when the team was actively trying to lose. He's not on a faux racial crusade. He's just an outspoken, arrogant guy in a sport where that sort of personality is frowned upon. If he was in the NBA, a league with 100 times more star power and mainstream marketability, no one would be calling him (or Jose or JD or Puig) a dbag. But in baseball you're supposed to be humble, not show emotion, play the "right way", etc. It's nonsense. He's no doubt done some dumb stuff on social media (with the front office, Goins release, etc), but he's a young guy on social media. It's a different world today. More players are going to be like that going forward. He stands out because unlike the NBA and NFL, MLB players are typically quiet/harmless on social media. I honestly have no idea how a guy coming off a 4 WAR and routinely is +3 in WAR (a stat that penalizes pitchers like him) every year he's healthy is somehow not a good enough player to have an ego to you. He's not an ace, but who cares? He's still good. You don't have to be Trout level to have an ego.

Being a dbag isn't as much of an issue when you're actually good, have a strong work ethic and a desire to win. JD was a dbag too. So was Jose. Puig, a guy you want the Jays to sign has that reputation. The difference is those guys are just cocky, self absorbed, and play with a style that doesn't mesh with the 'good old boy' style that Grichuk grew up with. It doesn't mean they are bad teammates or bad to have around. Some times players are bad to have around, but there's no evidence to prove that with Stroman. When Grichuk publicly mocked bat flips on the same day Anderson did one, he joined the elite high character fraternity of MadBum, Brian McCann, Sam Dyson, Goose Gossage, etc, of guys who want players to put their head down and run the bases. I'd sooner weed those types of players out of the game than support them. It's not even a race thing as young white guys are bat flipping now. No young player is going to listen to Grichuk. On the flip side, if Stro were still here, my guess is a lot of the young players would identify with him and his work ethic.

Stroman came back from a torn ACL in about 5 months and helped the team get to the playoffs and advance as far as they did. Young players have said good things about him, and he's helped teammates on and off the field (ex. Sanchez before his 2016 breakout season). Just because he's self absorbed, it doesn't mean he's a bad teammate. It just means that he'll rub people the wrong way some times as some prefer their athletes to be humble and silent. He's neither of those things. I guarantee if you ask a group of Gen Z and young millennial players (of any race) who they would identify with more, I'd bet the answer for the great majority of that group would be Stroman and it wouldn't be close. We'll see what happens when Grichuk as the old man of the group tells everyone to run the bases and put their heads down, while everyone ignores him and gravitates to Bichette and Guerrero.

Grichuk was done to me the moment he conveniently made a post about how evil bat flips are on the same day Tim Anderson did a bat flip against the Royals, but wouldn't admit he was talking about Anderson when confronted on it. Stroman gets way too much flack here. He has a strong personality and will rub people the wrong way, but he's exactly the type of player you would want on a team. Saved our asses in Game 5 against Texas, pitched a hell of a WC game, and as mentioned actually gave a s*** when the team was openly tanking. I'll take his side if the opposite side is Grichuk every single time.

Yeah I would think Shaw is the one who made it easier to push Vlad to 1B/DH. If Shaw sits out, then we're probably stuck watching Drury/Panik at 3B all season.

I have no doubt Vlad wants to be a great player. I just don't think being in his best shape is high on his priority list. He's still young enough to change his ways if a light bulb goes off in his head in the next few years, but that becomes less and less likely as he gets more pro years under his belt and we see no significant change.

I think you are responding to me but directing your post to others because I've never "fat shamed" Vlad. I'm calling it what it is. How many times do you see a pro athlete have this much issues with weight at a young age suddenly turn it around from a conditioning standpoint, especially in baseball? If anything, it's probably going to get worse as he ages both due to genetics and effort. No one is expecting him to come to camp looking like Mike Trout, but you can have his body type and still make the best out of it. He's not there and has shown very little indication that he'll get there. Doesn't mean he won't have a great career. If anything, moving him to 1B/DH is probably going to make him better sooner, but let's not act like his weight isn't going to be a long term issue. He's already had injury issues the past couple of years. It's something to keep an eye on.

The Jays targeted Moose in the off season and ended up with Moose lite in Shaw. They were definitely planning this in the background and it probably would have happened mid season 2020 had the season started as normal. I like it. Vlad clearly doesn't care about his conditioning or weight. Put him at 1B/DH and let him mash for as long as his body will hold up. Removing the stress of playing a demanding defensive position will probably help his bat.

Draft Martin, move Vlad to 1B. Man things are looking bright right now. Improves the team instantly without a single change to the roster.

The Jays are a perfect spot for draft picks. Super young team on the rise, pay minor leaguers more than most (all?), and we have recent history to show that once there’s a winner on the field the atmosphere is amazing (thank you Joey Bats). Plus Shapiro now has a history of successfully bringing Boras clients to Toronto. When you look at the top 5, Martin is probably relieved he wasn’t picked anywhere else, other than Miami (where the team sucks but a young millionaire would enjoy it).

Get your GIF's ready.

That's my point. Those trades weren't bad, just not very consequential, which is why I don't really look at them. I was talking specifically about the bigger named players (JD, Osuna, Happ, Stroman, etc). My point was you could make an argument that had the timing been different, the returns could have been substantially better. Again, it's tough to prove that without knowing what was offered, but I don't think anyone could be happy with Merryweather, Perez, Paulino, Drury, McKinney, etc, as the returns for the remnants of the playoff teams. SWR/Kay is a different story. I don't think I'm being hard on Shatkins. Like I said I think overall they've done really well. But if you want to pick a weak spot for them during their tenure, what I mentioned has been it.

Out of those moves, the one they did great on was Liriano because they got 2 months of someone who helped them get to the playoffs and two prospects (one was a bust, the other looks like a decent backup catcher who will provide some value). I don't disagree that the others were good moves, but in the grand scheme of things those players are probably not on the next contending Jays team (at least not prominent parts of it) so I don't really put as much weight on those deals as I would for some of the vets discussed previously. Although, Thornton stealing some of Buchholz's repertoire and seeing good results in September has me somewhat intrigued about him, and Teoscar's exit velo + improved walk rate is encouraging. There's still time for those trades to go from "solid" to great.

They traded him while he was serving a suspension for domestic violence. That's the definition of bad timing. I wasn't blaming Shatkins, but bad timing is bad timing. Did they get a good return considering the circumstances? Yes. I thought Paulino had potential (where the F is he now?) and Perez was a lotto ticket type of prospect, but they could have done way better than that in a normal situation for an elite reliever with 2.5 years of control left. Not all bad timing was their fault. Osuna was out of their control. JD was within their control prior to 2018, not so much during 2018. Happ was a bad trade, but 2 months of a mid rotation starter in his mid 30's probably wasn't going to be that valuable a piece even if his last couple of starts before the trade were better (the time to trade him was probably trade deadline 2017 for optimal return in hindsight). Giles obviously got hurt before they could trade him. Sanchez became a bust after 2016 so even getting Fisher was probably a miracle. The one trade they got absolutely right in timing and return was Stroman. Everything else has been a mixed bag. The good news is none of their "bad" moves have been significant, so they hedged their bets well enough while developing the farm system to get us to where we are now. Like I said, they came into a situation with a one year window, and ownership wanted to extend that window beyond its shelf life because the team was a money train in 2015-16. It wasn't the easiest situation to navigate through, but I'm fine with the end result, even if certain things could have been done differently.

I'd say they have been excellent in terms of the farm system (drafting, international signings), but the one knock on them has been MLB transactions. Those have been a mixed bag, made worse by some bad timing with trades (JD, Osuna, Happ). I guess you could argue had they started the rebuild during the 2017 trade deadline or prior to the 2018 season rather than at the 2018 trade deadline that maybe there would be some better young pieces in the pipeline to go along with the existing top farm system, but hard to say without knowing what exactly they turned down in 2017-18. Considering the situation they inherited, an old playoff team with essentially a one year window, I'd say they did pretty well all things considered. It's much easier to acquire vets in free agency/trade in today's market than it is to develop stars, and the Jays have the potential to develop some stars in the next few years, as early as 2020 if the season starts/concludes.

And I believe Farrell is the 3rd scouting director to oversee a draft since Shapiro was hired (Parker -> Sanders -> Farrell). It hasn't seemed to hurt them in terms of quality of drafts, which is great, although a special thanks to the Orioles for gifting Martin to us. Between the drafting and international scouting over the last few years, the Jays are set up very nicely.

Shatkins continues to kill it in drafts.

That's good news. I think Vancouver would kill it as a MLB franchise. Put a good team on the field, and that place would be 2015-16 Toronto when the Jays were hot.

Ideally, add two teams to the league, and relocate the Rays anywhere else. If getting a 2nd Canadian team, I think Vancouver sounds more appealing than Montreal, but not sure if MLB has ever considered Vancouver. That market seems a lot more baseball friendly than Montreal's.