Cooler Heads Prevail

Johnson is basically a free agent and given his performance in Toronto and recent injury history he's not a good gamble for the club. The last thing they need is to commit a chunk of their budget on any starter with an injury history. The agent and the club talk is all posturing he'll sign on some big budget club at more then true value. If Johnson truly likes Toronto and wants to give them a club friendly deal well that's different ( seems unlikely ). Johnson, Arencebia, and Gibbons should be elsewhere next season. Lind might be gone too, if they sign someone. They need to shake up that clubhouse and send a message that nonperformers don't keep their spots. Overpaying Johnson would run counter to that strategy.

This is the kind of bs post that lacks any common sense that I expect from someone with a chip on their shoulder about higher education. Common sense ? Come on, I read the overdone theories on here and see statistics being misused so much. Anyone stating that Joe Carter was a terrible player lacks common sense, they can only look at a somewhat flawed stat like WAR and treat it like it's the bible. Common sense suggests players like Carter and Alomar were winners who were respected and liked by their team mates, performed in big situations, and strong pieces of perpetual playoff contendors. I never said getting a degree makes one necessarily intelligent or practical. However, for the record, I graduated with honours at the U. of Waterloo in Mathematics with minor studies in IT and Business. Its still one of the most respected degrees in the country, and ironically one of the most practical too. You likely are correct, that there are other highly educated people on this board ( more educated ? not sure what that would mean but whatever ), but if they are intelligent they might know no dummy is graduating from that program. In fact, "King" might even have some classmates who aspire to get accepted into that program; it's still well respected 30 years later. Perhaps he'll believe in this "fantasy land" though and suggest its a bad program to go to because some idiot on his baseball forum went there.

Maybe I'm wrong but I see Arencebia and Gibbons gone as step one in their off season plan. And if they don't get that done maybe AA gets fired in a surprise move from the FO. I think even casual fans would accept either of these moves as a sincere attempt to improve the team. I know if I was in FO I'd be seriously questioning AA if he really is 100% behind these two guys. Hopefully, its all just public relations before they move these guys out in a professional manner.

CA, 2B, LF, SP there really can't be more then a few top notch free agents available and they'll probably sign whomever they find first. CA seems to be not too bad finding a decent defensive guy which might be what they need. I have a feeling though that they may actually spring a large trade in the off season that will shake up their strengths and weaknesses. A lot depends on the availability of new SPs to the Jays. If they find somebody, perhaps a decent defensive player at 2B and CA is all they need. If they fail on the new SPs, well they can roll the dice on the comeback SPs and splurge on 1 or 2 big money positional improvements. These two scenarios are so wildly different its impossible to know what will actually occur. Arencebia I think this will be his last year as a Jay. The plan is probably in place already.

Two years at MVP type levels are not a good baseline unless he's a Hall of Fame type player and those are pretty rare. Rather then "declining", I think he's settled down into a 25-30 HR / 75-90 RBI type player ( even with the injuries ) which is still pretty valuable and it wouldn't surprise me if we get 3 more years of roughly this level of play. The injuries are a real concern, but the performance when healthy isn't in my opinion. His contract is ideal given the risks. Trading him for Profar, for example, a move many have speculated here, merely shifts the risks from one type of risk to another. Obviously, if you expect to win next year, Bautista is a better option, but if you expect to win in 2016-2018 well Profar might be worth gambling on. More likely the real offers out there are exchanging one aging veteran for another. For example, somebody like Cliff Lee might be in play. I looked up the ex-Jays. Molitar was still of value at age 40 ( a true ironman ) and Carter at age 37 ( a nice season at age 36 ). Realistically, Bautista would be more like Carter so I expect somewhere between 3-5 more productive years if stays ( sort of ) healthy.

How many pages of it are "King" posting garbage one and two liners or "BTS" etc writing off Goins in a repetitive manner ? The most unrealistic aspect of the whole discussion was the idea that Goins could never become of major league starter. It might not be a likely result but its not an impossible result. The most telling post is from "BTS", stating that John MacDonald has never earned a roster spot. And yet he's had a long career because he can backup several positions effectively. He allows teams some flexibility on their bench and they aren't too worried using him as a late inning replacement. So its easy to see what might occur here. If he doesn't make it, these posters will bring it up repeatably for years. If he does make it, they'll say major league GMs are stupid to play him. In the unlikely event that he not only makes it but exceeds expectations wildly, they'll try to pretend it never happened. For Goins himself, its all irrelevant, his job is to try to maximize his service in the majors, and if he fails he'll move on. I admire the poise he's played with given that he's fighting for his career right now. Much more admirable then the posters who think their job is to discredit his chances to an outrageous level, and repeat it dozens of times.

At what age did Paul Molitar and Joe Carter start "declining" ? How many position players on recent Yankee and Red Sox pennant winners were older then Bautista is now ? Could it be that speculating on "decline" is a hazardous guessing game and if you have someone on a nice contract its pretty pointless unless someone offers you an unbelievable can't miss trade for that player ?

You have absolutely no big picture thinking in your make up. Every single thing you post is immediate and short sighted, suggesting your whole decision making process is short term and lacks vision. Have you really no idea that you are like this ? It's quite obvious to almost anyone who reads a days worth of posts from you. And seriously, you really need to stop saying I'm stupid or retarded. Here's the reality. I would wager $10,000 straight up on an IQ test winner take all without hesitation, and smoke your ass with ease. Go ahead, tell me honestly what your education level is, I'm curious. Who is this guy who posts like he's 15 years old and seems to have a serious case of a.d.d. ? At least if you just came out and admitted your whole act is to be the site's troll, I'd give you some credit. But you seem to truly believe the s*** you post, which is astonishing really its some of the dumbest s*** I've read in years on any forum any topic.

Tanking is for losers, especially in baseball where the draft is such a crap shoot anyways. Tanking might hurt their chances of getting quality free agents. The only thing worse then tanking would be trading away all their veterans one year into a three year plan. Another favorite idea on this forum LOL.

Do you really believe that ? There are plenty of contracts that cannot be moved. Cabrera at $8M I feel cannot be moved. Izturis maybe but unlikely. They could eat the contracts and release these guys, but both are useful at a minimum in a backup role so there is no point.

My posts are based on the idea that Izturis and Cabrera can't be dumped without paying them. You just can't assume you can escape bad contracts. I'd drop both of them if it were practical. Izturis was supposed to be their flexible backup infielder this season, it just didn't work out that way. These contracts make it harder for guys like Lind, Kawasaki, Goins, De Rosa to earn a spot on the roster next year. But one or two of them might sneak by if the Jays are unsuccessful filling their holes, or put all their efforts into fixing pitching.

Goins performance won't really affect their efforts to find a 2B, but its not hard to think about a scenario where they address other concerns in the off season and simply settle on Izterus + best of ( Goins/Kawasaki/minor free agent ). I'm not a big fan of Kawasaki in that role, nice guy but its a business and his defence is suspect in my opinion. Jays state publically that adding a starter is their first priority. I'd like to think finding a new starting CA and moving Cabrera to full time DH are a priority too. Depending on how they achieve this ( eg trading a hitter for a pitcher creates a hole to be filled ), 2B might not be addressed.

I think Lawrie will have a breakout season next year. August has been huge to his confidance, now he can just play knowing he's got his spot every game. Offence won't be an issue for the Jays next season, especially if they upgrade 1 or 2 spots. Less injuries and ( hopefully ) less games where their starter spots the other team a 5 run lead would probably help the offence too.

Stats wars ? I didn't post I believe in a week. However, the underlying tone of negativity on this forum continued, with support from a moderator. And it is very clear there is a small mob of posters who feel controlling the discussions on here is their role. When a thread is dedicated to trashing Goins, hardly an impact player and hardly failing in his little trial at the moment, it all gets very stupid.

Who knows how he will do but on a team that has very few position prospects that make it and all the so far unwarranted hype about Gose I think its a breath of fresh air when one of these guys doesn't immediately fail on joining the team. Every time somebody does this it helps push the vets on a team that is far too comfortable being losers. I would presume they'll fix whatever weaknesses based on what the market allows, and if 2B doesn't get addressed it isn't lethal if other trouble spots are taken care of. Lawrie solves part of their early season problems in my opinion, I think he'll have a huge year next season. I'd love to see Cano on this team but fiscally it might not be smart, really hard to say because it would be a huge upgrade at 2B. New CA and one very solid SP would go a long way towards fixing this team. Who knows what players will be interested in Toronto, but any hitter looking to upgrade their offence might like the Homer Dome ( aka Rogers Center ), and they might havea great offence next season with one major addition.

Reality check. You are way out of line as are the usual crew on here who are like a roving mob of stats heros who seemingly lack real perspective. How many times do one of you decide an idea about a player or a trade are absurd because some stat is pulling at your head ? Seriously, get real, if the Jays can get by on one "weakness" they can address other weaknesses first. Who the hell knows if Goins can make it, but there is no reason to argue about whether he can in an insulting fashion. The more people post on here the more the absurdity of the small world here is revealed. We have the Bobbsy Twins ( BTS and Boxcar ) insulting or threatening anyone who dares disagree with them. Just who are these people ? Well, we know that BTS is a self admitted ex-thug who is "reformed". Boxcar is some young adult who is considering going to trade school. Nothing wrong with these people based on that EXCEPT when they get insulting about others who are actually putting up very reasonable opinions on baseball. And let's be real, its baseball. Its not life. Just about the worst post on here was from "The Hurl" who was supportive of BTS threatening to physically attack a poster with his lethal hands. Well, I suppose its debatable which of them was being a bigger dik, but there are lines that shouldn't be crossed. Seriously, the little gang of stats bangers here that follow each other around congratulating each other and their crass posts is absurd. I don't really care who likes me in this little world, but it would certainly be a more realistic board if more people simply confronted these guys when they are being *******s on what seems to be a daily basis. And to be 100% clear, the idea that the poster must have been dropped on his head to believe Goins has any chance to crack the lineup is STUPID. Worse players have had careers in baseball, and you cannot possibly tell whether he'll beat the odds or not.

A more intelligent person would understand how to quote people and not project their own ideas into paraphrased one liners. But its pretty obvious you aren't intelligent, you post absolute s*** dozens of times a day. You seem mentally unstable to me, if I am perfectly honest.

Biggest bunch of bull I've read in some time. Take any of these guys, give them access to modern facilities and trainers and they'd be superstars any era.

He's easily their best "prospect" at this point, the true upside has yet to be established. You'd think that a forum that tends to overemphasize potential would be raving about this guy ( he brings a little of everything : defence, power, contact, speed ). I guess familiarity breeds contempt, if he were on any other team there would be guys recommending trades to get him. I expect 2014 will be his breakout year. Main hurdle is staying healthy, he needs to learn some self preservation.

Actually, I think once the season is over he may surprise you and "give up" on JPA. All the signs are there that it might happen. JPA will attract too much money in an arbitration situation because of his power numbers. My prediction, they sign a catcher in the off season and then trade JPA. I think the JPA situation is all about finding the best solution for the team and the player, without making anyone look bad in the process. This also helps them possibly get something of value back in a trade; maybe not a lot but something, maybe JPA is an extra piece added to make a trade work.

Two months overdue but a good move. Bono never fit this team very well, we already had enough speed and need guys who can get on base ( not strikeout ) and/or play good defence. I suspect they are trying to sign Davis given that Gose appears to be a bust so far. Now if only we could have gotten them to take Cabrera as well.

Yes, Johnson won't go cheap, and he'll be a huge gamble for whomever signs him. Jays are better off letting him walk, he'll try to squeeze them for more money then some other teams. I expect some big money teams to take a shot ( eg Dodgers, Phillies, Yankees???, Rangers ) depending on pitching needs and where other free agents end up. I'd think the Jays are far better off trying to get a fairly injury free pitcher given that the #1 problem they have is their pitchers get injured a lot. Johnson hasn't been worth $14M per season since 2010, so he's basically a free agent already.

Not all that interested, this board was just a passing interest that may or may not hold but its not looking good. Met Ms. Rauter a few tiimes in my Curling efforts, an arena I have more of a vested interest.

Is that your favorite Harvey's or something ? Here's my advice, eat healthier and post less one liners ( especially the insulting ones meant to get a rise out of people ). I'm expecting you'll ignore my advice and post another one liner.

Do you honestly think your a.d.d. induced clown act is a plus ? As I said from day one, you are more troller then anything. Nothing you have done since has changed my mind. The minute things get quiet and you get bored you start in on the clown act again.