Olerud363

Felix Hernandez. Maybe a couple of others. 18 year olds rarely get to even this stage (Lansing). It's foolish to compare Osuna to the average guy. Compare him to other 18 year olds who dominated a ball. Assuming they stay healthy and keep dominating they reach the majors at 20. You don't have a guy dominating the minors for 4 or 5 years. Teams develop players the way they do because they rarely dominate AND stay healthy. Once they start getting on a role though don't stop them. If he's healthy and dominating a month from now there's no reason to hold him back. Send him to Dunnedin. If he's healthy and dominating there for a couple months the same.

It isn't only mechanics... I probably throw 50 right now, if that. I suspect if I got high quality coaching I could get it up to 65 or 70... but not much higher because of inherent limitations. I think your quote there sums it up nicely "Trying to figure out why one guy failed and one guy succeeded is as close to a fool's errand as you can get". We have an organization that seems to put a lot of effort into figuring out who is going to suceed and who will fail. I am of the "keep it simple stupid" camp. Collect lots of young players. Promote the ones that suceed.

I remember on opening day that year he just flicked a pop-up into the left field bullpen. Then after he came back from his demotion I remember he was hitting balls to left like Goerge Bell used to... 3 bombs smoked to left in a weak if I remember correctly. Not that it lasted to long. He bit for a month then smoked a couple of moon shots at Yankee Stadium in September. He was 21. Just normal development from that point and he's a middle of the order guy... blah... prospects always fail right?? Not guys like this. You take 50 guys who were where Snider was at 21 and I gotta think 35 of them are great. Guess Snider was in the other 30%.

Or it could be a problem with his wrist.... He seems to be a different hitter after since 2011... I don't know what his problem is either... just that it's becoming pretty obvious he has a problem (which some people pointed out years ago).

If I was a civil engineer in charge of a project to build a road, and a guy came up to me and said there's a pot hole in the road. This road just isn't gonna work. I'd say "what the frack?? fix the fracking hole!". And if he said he couldn't.. that the project would have to be canceled and we'd have to build a new road... then I'd be pissed as hell and skeptical. Now maybe there'd be a reason the pothole couldn't be fixed. Maybe something to do with the land the road was built on... or maybe the entire road was buit and designed wrong from the beginning of the project. I'm John Henry... somebody comes up to me and says player x is broken, there's a hole in his swing. Player x is a top draft pick and now it will cost 60 million dollars to replace him with a free agent. I sure as hell want to be convinced that this hole is real, and is unfixable. Next I demand to know how it got there. Was is scouting?? The scouts didn't see the hole years ago when they recomended the player?? Which scouts?? Do we need to get rid of them. Is it coaching?? In his trip through the minors and eventually mlb no coaches were able to fix this hole?? Why can't he adjust??

So as one of the most knowledgable posters on this board what is your opinion?? Why is he failing? So far I've been told it's because of the hole in his swing... Let's rephrase the question then. How did he get the hole in his swing and why can't it be fixed?? Some possibilities... 1. An inherent limitation in hand eye coordination (genetic) has led to the hole in his swing. 2. A mental issue has led to the hole in his swing (anxiety, mental toughness or something). 3. His wrist injury has led to the hole in his swing. 4. His diet and conditioning has led to the hole in his swing. 5. His attitude (can't work with coaches) has led to the hold in his swing. What

This is just such a stupid thing. "Hole in his swing?". Give me a break. What is that exactly?? I played basketball throughout highschool. I worked hard and was fundamentally sound. I had very smooth mechanics and a nice shot. I did not play in college. This had nothing to do with a "hole in my shot" or any other such bull crap. Other kids had much worse fundamentals and mechanics went on to play in college because they had more fast twitch fibers and were naturally faster, stronger, and more coordinated. I wish I played more baseball. I basically played softball and sandlot. I had an OK swing. Other kids had horrible swings but more fast twitch fibers so could hit the ball farther and more consistently. Have you ever played golf?? Frustrating game. But anyone who has, has seen the athletic coordinate guy, show up, and do OK, even with a horrible swing. A hole in the swing is not a real thing. Presumably you mean. "Travis Snider does not have the hand eye coordination to execute the swing dynamics correctly." or... "Travis Snider never recieved the proper coaching to execute the swing dynamics correctly." Personally I'm tired of hearing pseudo scientific ******** about a "hole in the swing". Give me some insight into why Snider can't fix the hole in his swing then we're getting somewhere. Presumably if you know about this "hole in Snider's swing" he and his coaches know about it. They just can't fix it.

Couldn't find the original Travis thread. I hate cherry pickers, and don't want to ever be one myself. So need to make sure I keep posting on certain topics even when they aren't going my way. Travis Snider: .235 .302 .355 For a fat platoon player that line is a pile of manure. The Travis haters were right (so far). Things can always change but at this point Travis deserves a demotion. Basically tied with Brad Lincoln in WAR right now (slightly negative for both). Still pulling for Travis. I still wish we had given him a couple of full seasons. But for whatever reasons the fat kid can't hit. Mental?? Genetic?? Attitude?? Wrist Injury?? Coaching?? Poor development plan?? What do you guys think??

Good question. Can he go to atleast 30 without the surgery?? I mean if he's bound to need it sometime in his 20s anyway it would make a lot of sense to get it now....

I wonder if Lawrie and Reyes will ever play 162 games combined in a season?? As ussual I hope I'm wrong. But Reyes is an awkward fast twitch, out of control guy, now in his 30s. Coming off of a real bad injury. Do you really think you'll get the opportunity to watch him for a few months?? I guess I've lost complete faith in this organization. I don't think the injuries are fluke. I will say Reyes will play more games then Lawrie over the next 3 years. Lawrie has reached the Grady Sizemore, Eric Chavez stage without even having the good years.

Farrell 39-25 .352 team on base Jays 27-35 .313 team on base Things are now getting worse. We are quickly approaching the half way point and the Jays are now slowly drifting completely out of it. Some say this is a "captain obvious" thread. The thread isn't about just pointing out that the Jays don't get on base. We all know that. The thread is about discussing why the team doesn't get on base (in 2013 and most other years since 1993) and suggesting ways to improve the situation. Look at it this way. Players go up and down like crazy. Lind and Saltamachia had a sub .300 on base average the last 3 years. Now both are getting on base this year. Lind - 2010-2012 told to rip and grip, awful Lind - spring training 2013 gets in semi-argument with AA in spring training, where AA gets mad and says basically "jesus christ Adam, ofcourse we want you to get on base, don't listen to any dang fools (like the previous hitting coach) that says otherwise. Lind - 2013 gets on base. Is it that simple?? Salty - doesn't get on base. Salty - media calls him out does he deserve to be part of the red sox?? Salty - Strong personality Farrell tells the little bugger to get on base. Salty - Gets on base. Is it that simple?? No but you need to make it clear to the player getting on base is important. J.P. Arencibia - doesn't get on base. J.P. Arencibia - thinks he's a super star, nobody seems to tell him otherwise except fan-boys on twitter who J.P. laughs at. J.P. Arencibia - gets worse every year at getting on base. The point is you need strong personalities to get in these guys faces and be clear about hitting philosaphy. John Farrell seems to be that kind of personality. I bet he got fed up with the fool hitting coach in Toronto which was part of the reason he left. Now we've given him free to the red sox and the guy is doing a great job getting a certain message to their hitters.

No need to accelerate his age. The trip from Lansing to Toronto can be done in about 1 year. If Osuna continues to be lights out he could be assigned to Dunnedin in later this year. Start next year in New Hamphire. Then at New Hampshire if he's performing he could be called up to Toronto at any time (as we've seen with Hutch and Nolin). Now is it smart to call up a 19 year old?? Not if you expect him to pitch deep into games and go 115 pitches... I don't think young guys are ready for that kind of work load. However if he is really a phenom (and we don't know, many things could go wrong between here and New Hamphsire) then I wouldn't have a problem calling him up relatively soon (as of 2014). As long as the Jays still have a program in place to protect his arm. This should be feasible with a 8 man bullpen and guys like Loup/Lincoln who can go multiple innnings.

What we did once. A long time ago is take one tall high school pitcher and develop a border line hall of famer... a guy who actually would of been a no doubt hall of famer if he held up in his late 30s a bit better. We did this a long time ago. We actually developed another guy almost as good but gave up on him because of injury. And a third guy who we thought was going to be real good but has been on the disabled list for about 5 years straight... and we can't give up on him because we keep getting reminded of the other guy we gave up on. We ended having to trade the real good guy because our organization was such a mess so now when you really think about it, all we have to show for developing all these high school pitchers is one almost 40 year old shitballer. 20 years of doing "good" at developing athletic high school pitchers and all we got to show for it is a almost 40 year old shitballer. That's what we do good. Boys and girls your Toronto Blue Jays.

What a comment... the one thing we do well?? Man. That kindof is ackknowleding "we don't develop position players at all." So the one thing we do well is get three guys to put up lights out numbers in low a Lansing, in 100 innings consisting of a lot of 3 or 4 inning starts. Then we flip two of those in trades for old junk ballers. Then it turns out the two we flipped are excelling for other organizations at a+... while they guy we kept still looks good but isn't holding up quite as good as the other two.... and the next round of teenage pitchers are kindof injured and/or underperforming at Lansing this year. That's what we do good??

I was born in the mid 70s so was at an impressionable age when I started following the team in the late 80s. First games I watched were 85 playoffs, and 87 collapse, just because everyone was watching. Started following here and there in 88, and got obsessed in 89. 5 years. 4 division titles, 2 world series. At that moment in 1993 Olerud was 25, Alomar 25 arguably in the top 5 young players in the game... Hentgen, Guzman. Green, Delgado, and Gonzales were like a holy grail of prospects (all considered top 10). The future was unbelievably bright. Standing there in 93 finishing high school there was no reason to believe that this wouldn't continue for years... little did I know. I feel sorry for the young ones who have never even got a wild card.

Why draft position players?? Good guys like Emilio Bonficacio and Rajai Davis are always available cheap.

Wow. Makes you wonder how they are going to fill these teams. Especially since they have 3 short season teams... Open tryouts?? Don't they start punting draft picks at some point to get around the cap?? Has that happened yet?

I like the move. Don't get me wrong I don't hold huge hope that it will work out long term. He's an 8th starter, but atleast a better 8th starter then Ramon Ortiz (now watch him get creamed as oppose to Ramon's 5 good innings first time out).

If all moves reported are true this feels like the 97/98 offseason. After the 97 gear up resulted in complete failure Cito was gone. Joe Carter was thrown out to sea. Darrin Fletcher was signed despite the presence of Benito Santiago. Let them fight it out for playing time was the attitude. Mike Stanley was signed. Craig Grebeck. Neither of which were a scouts dream. Young players were given more opportunity. It wasn't all roses. But it felt like different voices were being heard all of a sudden. The team won 88 most in the 1994-2013 era. This isn't as major but a cluster of moves like this makes it feel like a, b, and c were being heard... it didn't work, so now e, f, and g have more input.

Freak of nature. Won 19 games 2 years in a row with the Yanks. Struck out 76 in 200 innings... but is almost literally the 1/1000 that can be effective like that. Extreme ground-baller. Struggled with injuries for 5 years. Number in aaa look good, strike out rate is horrible. But he is literally the 1/1000 who can be effective with that k-rate. I like the move. Better to sort through these type of guys (early 30s record of success) then the Ramon Ortiz's of the world.

It is to bad these discussions degenerate. It is an interesting question. Imagine someone from this board made it big. Really big. They buy the Toronto Blue Jays. They are a rabid baseball fan but smart enough to stay a bit hands off. They watch every game fanatically, analyze every move. But they don't interfere on a real time basis. This person is busy with their primary endever. Financial trading, running their social media mega-hit, whatever it is. They are wildly successful in that and they have an over-abundance of confidence. The blue jays are their hobby, but a hobby that is a passion. Every Monday morning they spend 1 hour (alone) with Paul Beeston. An hour alone with AA. This person is just unpredictable enough to make Beeston and AA squirm. And even try to play them against each other (thus meeting alone). This is the man that could fire them on a whim. This man's wildest dreams came true. He is a politician of no sort, he cares only about winning. He is the principle owner and answers to no one. What would the conversations be like?? How would this character grill Beeston and AA?? How would Beeston and AA act when taken out of the political realm and into a cave where they are just an inferior dog who needs to answer to the alpha dog?? How would they explain all their moves and what has transpired??

I agree with this and have been saying the same thing. Tampa and Boston both have principle owners with a background in trading financial assets. Houston has wheeler dealer business guy Jim Crane. Their minds are wired to win every transaction. To collect assets. To collect good assets. They have no preconceptions. They intuitively realize that preconceptions cloud your ability to trade successfully. (edit: And to those of you who say Houston is bad... ask this: What is the value of a 79 win, or an 83 win, or even an 87 win season to the 2016 Astro championship team?? Nothing. What is the value of a 51 win, or a 48 win, or a 63 win season to the 2016-2020 Astros dynasty?? A lot). They are always on the lookout for suckers. They need them for the other end of their trades. County level retirement fund managers are a good one. Why?? Because political people aren't looking to win. They're looking to impress (short term) other politicians. Rogers is a politician's culture. Beeston and AA weren't selected for their ability to win, but their ability to impress politically. We see that guys like John Henry and John Crane need their suckers (for the other end of their trades both financial and baseball related)... where to find them?? In a political organization like Rogers.

I don't have a problem with his swing. I've been told it's horrible. Last time this was brought up a couple of guys said that Gomes would be crashing soon because his swing is so bad.

A lot of us are against the witch hunt. I don't like the fact that some guys are caught because their dealer squeals.

Other than "anything goes", any drug policy or testing system will have gray areas. A couple of guys are for "anything goes", and I'm guessing you're in that camp too. That means your for Cocaine I guess?? If your for "anything goes" you have to really be for "anything goes"... because otherwise you just have a different line in the sand.