Dick_Pole

Put some money on the Jays to make the playoffs at +220. If Manoah pitches well again tonight I'm going to double it. If he is back on, the Jays might have the best starting staff in the league. Or at least in contention for it. Teams like that don't miss the playoffs.

Today's loss courtesy of Atkins 2017 first round draft pick and former top prospect Nate Pearson.

Terminator is right to reject BigCecil's $500 bet proposal. The Jays are currently +260 to make the playoffs. An even money bet is a huge ripoff for him. Cecil just trying to scam himself into a favorable bet by being mean then likely using a bookie to cover the other side and collect the arbitrage.

So which GM will have the more pathetic list of homegrown (drafted and developed) talent under their watch? Ricciardi with Adam Lind, Aaron Hill, Shaun Marcum and Ricky Romero or Atkins with Kirk, Manoah, Schneider, Pearson and whatever other jobber might come from the Jays mediocre system in the next year or two?

I would love to see some Secret Base or Foolish Baseball level deep dive on front offices. There is something fundamentally wrong with the organization. I bet there is a story here. How can a team that is willing to spend, clearly trying to compete, purports to be progressive, and generally winning on trades and free agent signings be so absolutely terrible at constructing an offensive skill set?

This right here is an indictment that the FO is by no means teeming with analytical geniuses. I know they focused on run prevention. I know they stink at drafting. Ricciardi was both of these things yet never had an offense this putrid. There is absolutely no excuse for a team that supposedly is analytical to be below every team in the league in an advanced metric, including two teams that are clearly rebuilding and might not even win 50 games this year. The extent of the Jays' analytics ability is to pull a hot starter in the 4th inning of a do-or-die playoff game. Atkins needs to go.

Is there not some sort of Juan Pierre type who can be had relatively cheaply? The Jays used to try out those types of guys. I don't even care about the noodle bat that results in an 80 OPS+ and 2 HR on the year. As long as the OBP is above average and the guy steals bases. Sign him and put him leadoff. The Jays could use that kind of spark at the top of the lineup.

Does anyone here even truly like this front office or what they have accomplished to date? It's a spectrum. People who are on the "wait and see" or "they did an okay, but not great job" end are going to look like supporters relative to the ones who have the pitchforks out. Even people who seem like they are sucking up aren't really doing so imo. Let's take Spanky for example. He's probably one of the biggest homers who frequently posts on here. He says consistently and overly positive things about the team because that's how he wants to show support and keep his spirits up about its chances of winning. Not because he thinks Atkins has done a bang up job. At least that's my interpretation of his and other people's homerism. There seems to be a contingent of people who take offense to that. Who is anyone to say how someone else wants to enjoy watching baseball? It's not like "supporters" of Atkins are in a position of power to keep him there. If someone's lack of apparent hatred of this front office is so grating to someone else, that second person should take some time off from this board.

So basically the Raptors until 2019.

One look at a Federal electoral map and you all know which team I'm cheering for in the Canadian series. Also let's face it, the Oilers have the better chance of the two of actually winning it all. Standings be damned.

One guy who I liked way more than the rest of the people here was Rajai Davis. Sure, boneheaded defense plays sometimes. But also a beast on the bases, hit above his weight in terms of clutch hitting and seemed like a nice guy. If the Jays are going to be mediocre, at least be mediocre with fun players like that.

Because people already opened up the Pandora's Box of political comparisons, I'll add my own. When Erin O'Toole because leader of the Conservative Party the sentiment from the more right wing side of the party was "we don't really like you, but if you can win, we will keep you". He got one half-assed pandemic election chance before getting the boot. The Atkins philosophy of team construction has made the team unwatchable. Basically anything other than Kikuchi starts, and who knows how much longer he will be with the team. No stolen bases, no home runs, meh pitching (even though I expect that to improve) and pulling starters too early when they rake. And on top of that, your "star" players are just genuinely unlikeable. Even before this season I couldn't give a damn about Bichette or Guerrero being on this team. Now I actively hope for a trade (if it's a decent return). Never would have heard me say that about Halladay or Delgado. I've actually watched more baseball from other teams this year than the Jays. First time I have ever done that. It's one thing to be the 1995 New Jersey Devils, but at least you are winning. When you are boring and stink and unlikeable, your Erin O'Toole moment is long overdue.

While people blame Montoyo for bad moves with the BP, who was he supposed to put in? When you pull your starter in the 6th after 90 pitches even though he's raking because "third time in the order, bro" you're going to have to reach deep into the bullpen. And when you only have three effective guys and the rest are random wildcards, you really don't have a lot of good options. Montoyo had a stupid face and his lackluster managing style has led to the clownish clubhouse atmosphere that we still see the remnants of today (Guerrero). But looking back, especially with how Schneider has been with his in-game decisions, I think Montoyo will be seen in a better light. When two managers absolutely stink at it, back-to-back, it's time to point fingers at somewhere other than them.

At the transactional level, Atkins is fine. Free agents (or avoiding bad contracts) and trades generally work out well. The problem is a complete lack of ability to develop talent internally. That hamstrings you in what you can do at the MLB level. And fans lash out as how you described because of the frustration with the team failing. Orioles keep on bringing up some new guy who rakes nearly every week. Pretty easy to construct a strong roster when that happens. What do the Jays have? Davis Schneider and a couple of other jobbers that the forum goes nuts over. Their ceilings wouldn't even get them in the conversation for best five players on the Braves' roster. It's not like the weak 2023-24 offseason came as a surprise. Every FO knew that coming into it. I don't blame Atkins for not making major moves. I blame him for coming into the offseason with a cupboard so barren that moves were desperately needed meanwhile knowing that the grocery store would be empty as well. Fans are rightfully angry even if by the time December 2023 came around it was clear that the FO had to mostly stand pat instead of digging an even bigger hole for itself with crippling bad moves.

We need a gif of a Simpson-animated version of Atkins with Nelson Muntz using his hands to repeatedly slam a window down on his head while he's saying "stop slamming a window on yourself".

I still think it's an April effect. I've done quite well on over totals so far this year which means the bookies are overcompensating with their models. In what universe does Boston give up an average of 3.5 runs per game for a sustained period of time?

For those who are too cheap and/or who don't want to deal with MLB.tv BS, that site first posted by Spanky a few years back is up and running again DM for details Last year it was a pain to deal with. This year it works swimmingly. So if you don't mind a minute or so delay to real time and don't mind increasing your risk of computer AIDS, this site is for you.

I think 90% of the annoyance with Springer isn't his value, contract or his reasonable decline. It's his usage. Why is the f***ing guy still batting leadoff like it's his enshrined role on the team? Jettison him to the 8th spot.

How can you like this? Jays are winning games their way. Don't mess with the formula. If it is absolutely imperative that Votto gets in a game, I'd rather have Guerrero benched than him playing 3B.

That was a wicked shot by Tavares. Even though the first PP goal was disallowed, it *feels* like momentum is shifting as if it was two goals in a minute. Problem is Leafs dominate the zone, then Boston gets a quick but strong chance the other way. So far no damage.

So, too early to say that this team is pretty good, warts and all? They are winning games exactly how they are supposed to be winning them. 12-9, -13 run differential. By the time they get to positive run differential they might be leading the division.

Yes. That would be preferable. Tampa is innovative in the same way those subprime lender guys were innovative back in the mid-2000's or that Titanic submersible. Toxic innovation from guys who think they are smart but are just arrogant dumbasses with a short-term mindset. Now we are starting to see the fallout. First with the dumb rule changes, now the injuries piling up. I get your point about guys getting to the majors now, but that's because teams used to roster 12-15 pitchers all year. Teams are rostering up to 30 of mostly nameless, faceless totally interchangeable jobber pitchers throughout a season. Who are then sent out at max effort to try to get out 3-5 good hitters then onto the next jobber before the opponents can study them. Instead of stopping that, the league responds with dumb rules like ghost runners, three batter minimums and shift limits. Baseball never had an issue functioning with Randy Choate types or shifts going back to Ted Williams until the last decade or so. Guys like Nolan Ryan used to be special. Now teams are trying to copy that output with seven guys instead of one in a given game. That's not fun to watch. Rays and Rays-adjacent FO thinkers ruined the game for fans. Why bother drafting and developing and paying Nolan Ryan types when you can use jobbers instead and throw them on the trash heap? This trend is only going to get worse if it's left unabated. The league will end up hemorrhaging all top end pitching talent because 1. teams won't develop them and 2. the talent pool will shrink because young athletes will choose paths that maximize their payout and minimize their injury risk. Yeah ok, you'll get a growing pool of fringy type of guys who think they can make the majors because some payout is better than none.

Probably will jinx it now but...I wonder if the Jays have found the secret sauce in terms of pitcher health? Other than Manoah and a couple of fringy pitchers like Merryweather and Pearson, this team keeps their pitchers pretty healthy. And it's been a trend going back a good ten years. How many times have we seen someone say "well you can't expect such good luck with pitcher health again" on this board? As for what we've seen happening with the injuries. Been saying this for years. Tampa Bay's front office has been a scourge for baseball. League basically has to try to undo all this ******** this franchise has created going back to 2009 with their "smart" way of playing the game. And all the dipshits who have been sucking up to this "great" front office need to be thrown into the sun with them. Short term thinking is such a perfect way to categorize it. But, you know, anyone who spoke up against these trends were just old dinosaurs who didn't know how to use a computer.

I'm willing to give this team a homestand before passing too hard judgement on the offense. https://mcubed.net/mlb/tor/series9.shtml Sort by RS under the away column. At Houston second lowest. At Tampa 8th lowest and lowest out of any location with more than 40 games. This isn't just a 2024 problem. The Jays have struggled to score runs at these locations every year since 1998 whether the offense has been good or bad. This team just naturally configures itself to suck mightily at southern locations that tend to favour pitchers. If you ignore the six games at Wrigley that becomes obvious just looking at that list. When they score 28 runs at Fenway again all will be sunshine and roses.

That's Gaylord Luke Perry to all of us non-90210 fans, which was basically every 12 year old boy who isn't some massive f... err, never mind. Then he showed off his small wiener in Oz as a priest, got burned inside a wall and did some weird voodoo mind control s*** on some hardcore biker criminals and became the coolest guy ever.