Grant77

I guess the question that you need to ask yourself with this debate is whether we want an expensive ageing outfielder (like Bautista) and our current staff, or do we want Peterson/Eaton and an expensive ageing pitcher (like Rich Hill). We have to spend aot of money to fill one of the holes without losing some wins.

Value wise it's fair enough. I'd just rather keep Stroman and sign an outfielder instead of being forced into a poor SP market. Make no mistake, we're not in a position to give away pitching depth and we'll pay dearly if we do.

I really wouldn't be interested in dealing from our SP strength until we've exhausted all other options. We were healthy this year, but the rotation depth is still rather thin. I think the free agent market and some small trades involving minor leaguers is the best way to address our needs.

In what way? Finances aren't exactly a problem for us right now. The farm system is on the upswing and we have strong group of young major leaguers. The focus should be on augmenting a team that has been top 4 in baseball for 2 consecutive years.

I don't know if it pertains to Tellez, but a lot of players with low bat speed succeed in the minors and majors. Take Justin Smoak for example.

Punta Cana is further East.

You could argue that giving Donaldson 4/120 or 5/150 would be a good deal.

Certainly midseason, if only for service time concerns.

LOL!!! cf

Vlad Jr. - The 40 HR potential is legit and hard to pass up. I need to see a bigger sample from Bichette before calling him the better hitter. Alford - Better defense, speed, and on base skills. Pretty simple choice for me. Greene - Higher level, high 90's fastball, cleaner mechanics. Harris is better than his stats show as well though. SRF - Tellez is a safer bet to get some major league time, but I don't think he has the impact potential of SRF. McGuire - If Pentecost shows he can catch, then I may change my mind. Until then, McGuire already looks like a quality backup and maybe more. Maese - I'm a sucker for big time fastballs that induce groundballs. Ramirez - He's shown a far better bat, easy choice. Zeuch- I have a lot of concerns about the pitchability of Rios and Perdomo at higher levels. Their command of their secondary stuff is lacking.

Hopefully the final game with be at Wrigley when the Indians sweep them.

Odd coincidence? Creator of Cubs 'curse' died on Oct. 22, Cubs win pennant Oct. 22 CHICAGO -- The Chicago Cubs have won the pennant for the first time since 1945, and now they'll endeavor to win the World Series for the first time since way, way back yonder in 1908. What's behind that? Cruel randomness, serialized misfortune, and occasional lousiness. Mythos, though, would have it that something darker has prevented the Cubs from reaching the pinnacle of the sport for lo these many years. As you're surely aware and has been amply chronicled every time the Cubs do anything of note, William "Billy Goat" Sianis, a Greek immigrant to Chicago and tavern owner of some local renown, cursed the Cubs when he and his pet goat were refused admittance to Game 4 of the 1945 World Series at Wrigley Field ... The story goes that Sianis was so miffed by this treatment that he declared the Cubs would never again win the World Series. In one of the great causation-correlation errors in history, that has indeed been the case. As long as we're indulging in the nonexistent and the supernatural, let's point out something -- two things, actually. On Oct. 22, 2016, the Cubs clinched their first pennant since around the time of Sianis' legendary tantrum. Yep, Billy Sianis, author of the curse, passed away 46 years ago Saturday night -- the night the Cubs won the pennant.

http://cdn1-www.craveonline.com/assets/uploads/2015/10/steve-bartman.png

We got Kevin Pillar in the 30th round or something. I guess gold glove CF's are easy to find too.

The Blue Jays have (finally) named the prospects that will be headed to the Australian Baseball League to suit up for the Canberra Cavalry when ABL play opens at the end of the month. Relievers Andrew Case, Jackson Lowery, Josh DeGraaf, outfielders DJ Davis and Josh Almonte, and Catcher Mike Reeves will take to the field for Canberra, who have had a successful partnership with the Blue Jays dating back several years.

Average age is 19.7 to be exact, though almost all of the legit prospects are teenagers.

If he was against signing players past their prime, he wouldn't have signed Bourn and Swisher. This is a different team in a different on the field and financial situation. If you think you are smarter than everyone else and can predict that Shapiro won't even try then go for it, but I think it's a fool's errand. In my opinion, he sees value in every type of player and doesn't write them off because of some sort of silly age limit that you imagined. If EE is willing to take a number close to that value then a deal will get done.

That sounds nice, but it's clearly not what is going to happen. They could have offered education to these players at any point in the past with no objection from the PA. Their families are starving, there is no interest in that on either side. This is just another tool to control and reduce the amount of money going to amateur players. Both sides are in favour of it, but the PA uses it as a negotiating chip. This will hurt baseball in the Dominican and reduce the amount of talent coming from that nation. Anyone who disagrees needs a history lesson in my opinion. Read up on the sad history of how baseball was destroyed by MLB's greed in Puerto Rico. That incident is a black mark on baseball and history is repeating itself.

I know how old they were. Signing 30 something player to a big contract is clearly something that he is willing to do. Two years in age between Swisher and EE doesn't change that.

Nick Swisher and Michael Bourn say hi.

The kids that get discovered will still get paid, but less incentive for buscones means fewer kids will be discovered. They have relationships in communities and can find kids that wouldn't otherwise be noticed. I'm sure angrioter can speak more to that point.

I've long been concerned about MLB destroying baseball in the Dominican like they did in Puerto Rico. Ben Badler of BA makes a compelling argument that the new international draft may do just that. It's a good read if you are interested in that sort of thing. __________________________________________ MLB Proposes International Draft, But Reforms Must Start At The Top October 20, 2016 By Ben Badler Major League Baseball has long wanted an international draft. The driving force behind implementing an international draft is for owners to control their labor costs by paying less money to international amateur players, allowing owners to keep more of that money. MLB already created a cost-control mechanism in the current Collective Bargaining Agreement by instituting bonus pools in the draft and for international signings. While the bonus pools clearly curtail draft spending, teams aren’t afraid to exceed their international bonus pools. Since 2012, there are 18 teams that have exceeded their pools, a mix of high-revenue franchises like the Dodgers, Yankees, Red Sox and Cubs as well as smaller ones like the Rays (twice), Padres, Athletics and Royals. MLB’s goal is not competitive balance—otherwise they could have simply given every team the same bonus pool and had them compete on an even playing field—it’s about controlling costs so owners keep more money. On the other side of the table in the CBA negotiations, the players’ association doesn’t care about international amateur players as anything more than a bargaining chip. It’s nothing discriminatory against foreign players, it’s just that the union looks out for players on 40-man rosters. So international players, draft picks in the United States and minor leaguers who make less than $10,000 in annual salary get their rights sold out by the union, which in exchange can negotiate items like a higher major league minimum salary, adjustments to the Super 2 rules or modifying draft pick compensation attached to free agent signings. On Monday, ESPN’s Buster Olney reported that MLB is pushing for a 10-round international draft. Per Olney’s report, instead of an international signing period opening on July 2, it would be a two-day draft in March beginning in 2018. By 2021, MLB wants to raise the signing age from 16 to 18, which is older than players subject to the current June draft have to be to sign. As Olney reported: “As part of baseball’s proposal, MLB would operate facilities in the Dominican Republic, where international draft prospects would be invited to live to develop their skills and education before becoming eligible. This would also give MLB much greater control over a process which has often been viewed by baseball executives as a wild, wild West of player procurement.” There are a lot of different items in play. The CBA expires on Dec. 1, so the timing is curious, with a lot of the specifics of the proposal yet to be made public. Perhaps it’s more of a negotiating tactic by MLB, but for now let’s presume the league’s requests are genuine. An international draft could have benefits and drawbacks for both teams and players, depending on the specific rules of the draft. But this isn’t about whether the league or the players would be better or worse off with an international draft. While there is no shortage of brainpower in the commissioner’s office, MLB has shown yet again that the people who work in New York and create the rules regarding international signings are detached from the realities of what’s involved in signing and developing international players. Let’s walk through the process of how players in the Dominican Republic get signed. MLB does not discover players. The ones who find and develop players are the trainers. They’re often called “buscones,” a term many trainers don’t like because it has a negative connotation, some of which is merited. These trainers often bring players into their program when they are 12 or 13 years old until they sign with a team, which they can do at 16. How each trainer operates is different, but they typically find players in their area. They might identify them through local youth leagues, through players coming to them or from other tips they get. Often, a smaller-level trainer will have a player who he brings to another trainer with more resources to represent that player in exchange for a percentage his bonus. Amateur baseball is different in the Dominican Republic different than it is in the United States. The organized youth baseball structure is lacking in the Dominican Republic, where kids don’t have high school baseball or travel teams. Once a Dominican player and his parents agree to be represented by a trainer, the trainer provides the player with coaching, with the bigger trainers often having a coaching staff they pay to help develop their players. The trainer often provides baseball equipment, travel expenses, food and sometimes housing. Some trainers have built entire fields and complexes for their players, partly in response to rules MLB implemented two years ago banning players from team academies. While some trainers run more of a bare bones operation, over the years leading up to a player’s signing, the trainers often end up paying for things like medicine, bills and other necessities for the player’s family that many can’t afford on their own. With players who stand out from an early age, the trainer will also give the player’s family cash up front—thousands of dollars in some cases—to entice the player to join his program. The incentive for the trainer is that if the player signs with a major league team, the trainer gets a large commission, often 20-30 percent (or higher in some cases) of the player’s signing bonus. If the player doesn’t sign, the trainer gets nothing. As much as MLB attempts to continually denigrate the trainers, they serve an important role in the development of the thriving talent coming out of the Dominican Republic and Venezuela. There’s no question that many trainers are corrupt, just as there are corrupt scouts and corrupt MLB officials. Some of these people shouldn’t be involved in baseball or even allowed anywhere near a child. But many of them are also good people doing important work to help players and their families. While the trainers compete with each other—first to get players to their program, then to sign players with teams—they also work collaboratively with each other and with teams to create solutions that benefit all parties. The most notable examples are the trainer-organized leagues, such as the Dominican Prospect League and International Prospect League, where trainers pool their players together so scouts can see them in game environments. Trainers in Venezuela are doing the same, and many of them are teaming with Dominican trainers to bring Venezuelan players to the Dominican Republic to get them more exposure than they would get right now in Venezuela, which has become a dangerous place for scouts to visit. So after trainers identify players at age 12, then spend five years investing in their development, why would they relinquish control of their players to MLB? Many trainers and scouts who work in Latin America already have a fierce mistrust of MLB—and rightfully so. MLB has consistently made it more difficult and more dangerous for scouts to do their jobs, implemented rules that hurt players and are designed to limit their bonuses and engaged in a variety of ethically questionable actions. The trainers are incentivized to maximize the development of their players; MLB has no such incentives. Or does MLB think they are going to be the ones who now identify and develop players from the time they’re 12? MLB has the scouting bureau in the Dominican Republic, but they don’t discover players. They just go to trainer-organized leagues, like the DPL or the IPL, or sometimes to the fields of the trainers, writing reports or taking videos of players who were already discovered years earlier. MLB runs an annual international amateur showcase in the Dominican Republic, an event that gets better every year and features many of the top international prospects. But again, MLB is not discovering or developing those players, and when MLB has attempted to run its own leagues, scouts have been underwhelmed with the quality of talent there. This isn’t about whether a draft is good or bad for MLB or for the players. While most scouts seem to be opposed to an international draft, even scouts who would welcome a draft didn’t like what they heard about MLB’s proposal. It’s about the troubling pattern that those who work on the ground in Latin America have taken issue with for years: That the people at MLB who create the rules on international signings do not understand the fundamental mechanics of how players are developed and signed in Latin America. That MLB treats the players, their trainers and even the teams in an adversarial manner rather than bringing people together to solicit their ideas and work together to create a better system for all parties. Of course the international signing system is in need of reform. That reform needs to start at the top with how the commissioner’s office operates in Latin America. http://www.baseballamerica.com/international/mlb-proposes-international-draft-reforms-must-start-top/#HRFTz7AyFxpK67rU.99

Do you have proof to support your claim regarding Shapiro? I'm have good reason to be skeptical after you made up stuff about Cherington and stated it as fact.

The gentleman doth protest too much, methinks.