General Blue Jays Discussion Thread (2023)

[L54]

You, and others continue to harp on playoff wins. Do you believe the Diamondbacks had a more successful year than the Braves because they made the division championship?

 

FWIW - AA did empty the system. He created a 2 year window for the Jays. We're currently in the midst of a 4 year window that certainly seems to be open for at least another 2 years. It is very disappointing that we don't have any playoff wins during that period, but the playoffs are a crapshoot. Answer this - if the Jays advanced to the 2022 WS like the Phillies (87 win team) and the 2023 ALCS like the Dbacks (84 win team) the past 2 season - would you suddenly be praising Atkins?

 

Do you think if you asked Braves players who has a more successful season between them and the Diamondbacks that they would answer that Atlanta did?

[MikeM3]

Except Itchy and Scratchy were the ones who promised a sustainable winner and their recipe was to have a continuous pipeline coming through the system. Shapiro openly criticized AA for the job he did and basically said I’ll show you how it’s done

 

Now people have to convince themselves Hagen Danner is evidence that the development is sound

 

Exactly. In the end they're just putting payroll into the stratosphere and trading prospects for veterans like Dombrowski would.

[Frenchsoup]

Funny because Shaprio actually is pretty good with the media unlink Atkins who is an absolute tire fire and should never be in front of a mic. What he said isn't wrong though, you do need waves of young players to be a sustainable contender. And thats why this discussion is happening because it looks like this competitive window is closing pretty soon.

 

I dunno man, this team is pretty talented at the major leagues and have lots of money and all of Canada's support.

[L54]

Exactly. In the end they're just putting payroll into the stratosphere and trading prospects for veterans like Dombrowski would.

 

Right. Its not particularly impressive to spend north of 200M for 89 wins

[L54]

In before mention of the Mets and Padres

[Brownie19]

Do you think if you asked Braves players who has a more successful season between them and the Diamondbacks that they would answer that Atlanta did?

 

I have a couple of different views on this.

 

1. Do you think AA should be on the hotseat because the team didn't win in the playoffs? Are you holding their failure in the playoffs against AA at all when you consider the job he did this year?

 

2. Obviously the players are going to feel as though their season was a failure because they are directly involved and often too close to see it clearly. Do I think players blame AA for failing to put them in a position to success? I do not - not one bit. Objectively, they were a 104 win team that that lost in a short 5 game series where a ton of randomness is involved. I think it's moronic to discard the success they had over the 162 game season and call the season a waste because they didn't win the crapshoot that is the MLB playoffs. There are so many factors that are outside of the control of the organization and players that you can't ignore.

[Brownie19]

Right. Its not particularly impressive to spend north of 200M for 89 wins

 

I mean, 4 of the top 6 payrolls didn't make the playoffs.

 

The 2022 Phillies had a payroll of $244M, but only won 87 games.....but wait, they made the WS - so was that season impressive?

[L54]

I mean, 4 of the top 6 payrolls didn't make the playoffs.

 

The 2022 Phillies had a payroll of $244M, but only won 87 games.....but wait, they made the WS - so was that season impressive?

 

No.

[L54]

We are so lucky to have Atkins

[G-Snarls]

Do you think if you asked Braves players who has a more successful season between them and the Diamondbacks that they would answer that Atlanta did?

 

Everyone, including players on those teams if they're honest, know that the Braves were a better team this year. Yet still the DBacks made it farther in the post season.

 

Better team vs better season not the same

[L54]

I have a couple of different views on this.

 

1. Do you think AA should be on the hotseat because the team didn't win in the playoffs? Are you holding their failure in the playoffs against AA at all when you consider the job he did this year?

 

2. Obviously the players are going to feel as though their season was a failure because they are directly involved and often too close to see it clearly. Do I think players blame AA for failing to put them in a position to success? I do not - not one bit. Objectively, they were a 104 win team that that lost in a short 5 game series where a ton of randomness is involved. I think it's moronic to discard the success they had over the 162 game season and call the season a waste because they didn't win the crapshoot that is the MLB playoffs. There are so many factors that are outside of the control of the organization and players that you can't ignore.

 

AA has more playoff wins in a weekend than Shatkins have in 7 years. I’m sure you can understand why one is viewed more favourably than the other

[Frenchsoup]

Is a Josh Donaldson 1 year 10 million dollar offer not the play right now?

[wamco]

No?

[G-Snarls]

Is a Josh Donaldson 1 year 10 million dollar offer not the play right now?

 

Maybe, if:

 

You can't sign Chapman for a reasonable deal

You have a quality backup who can play 3B when Donaldson is hurt

You're getting a significant offensive upgrade in LF/DH as well

[Frenchsoup]

What's the play coach?

[Frenchsoup]

Ur not getting chappy, u had ur chance

[G-Snarls]

Cause the nightmare scenario is JD plays 1/3 of a s***** season and Espinal plays most of the year at 3B

 

Can't. Let. That. Happen.

[Frenchsoup]

I do have a quality backup

[G-Snarls]

Ur not getting chappy, u had ur chance

 

Agreed

 

He's as good as gone.

[Frenchsoup]

And I would have non tendered espy unfortunately

[Spanky99]

JD is cooked, lol.

[Frenchsoup]

Jd would make me watch the game, it's his last year. Such a legend.

[G-Snarls]

JD is cooked, lol.

 

That's what I think

 

Would not expect him to even play 100 games or even be a league average bat at this point

[Frenchsoup]

He wants to come back to Toronto, and Toronto has a gaping hole at 3b and I don't want to play Biggio there even though he can do OK there defensively. But just plug ur gaping hole with a sick veteran and put away your negative feelings toward Donaldson away for a season and Enjoy the f*** out of this guy. If you don't like Josh Donaldson you're a loser.

[Spanky99]

That's what I think

 

Would not expect him to even play 100 games or even be a league average bat at this point

 

Lost his bat speed. He was great.

[Brownie19]

AA has more playoff wins in a weekend than Shatkins have in 7 years. I’m sure you can understand why one is viewed more favourably than the other

 

Stop using 7 or 8 years. Shatkins wasn't going to win in 2017-2019 after AA left the team in shambles. AA won the world series with an 88 win team that climbed on the back of Joc Pederson, Jorge Soler, Eddie f***ing Roserio and some pearls. It was half the team that the 2023 team is. AA isn't a genius for winning the WS in 2021, nor is he a bum for only winning 1 playoff game this year and not winning a round. The playoffs are a crapshoot. Good GM's get their teams into the playoffs as often as they can (and obviously with the best team they can). AA is a good GM because he's gotten the Braves to the playoffs 4 straight seasons and there's no sign of their window closing. Atkins was 1 win away from doing the exact same thing and we're in a good position to do it for at least another 2 seasons.

 

Shatkins promised a sustained winner. Making the playoffs 3 the last 4 seasons (after rebuilding the mess AA left) is already good. If we do that another 2 season, will fans appreciate that going to the playoffs in 5 of 6 seasons is a sustained winner? Or will it always be tied to the results in playoffs? If it's the later, I sorry, but I think that's a flawed view.

 

And yes - I do believe AA is a much better GM than Atkins.

[Frenchsoup]

Spanky let's get drunk and watch JD chirp ppl

[Spanky99]

Spanky let's get drunk and watch JD chirp ppl

 

lol...

[Laika]

Except Itchy and Scratchy were the ones who promised a sustainable winner and their recipe was to have a continuous pipeline coming through the system. Shapiro openly criticized AA for the job he did and basically said I’ll show you how it’s done

 

Now people have to convince themselves Hagen Danner is evidence that the development is sound

 

They haven't failed until they've failed.

 

At this point the worst you can say is that the team has flopped in the playoffs and the farm system is mediocre at best.

 

It's not like the team has missed the playoffs in consecutive seasons or finished under .500 because their farm is dead. Four winning seasons in a row here... lots of time to position the 2026 roster and beyond for success.

[Laika]

He wants to come back to Toronto, and Toronto has a gaping hole at 3b and I don't want to play Biggio there even though he can do OK there defensively. But just plug ur gaping hole with a sick veteran and put away your negative feelings toward Donaldson away for a season and Enjoy the f*** out of this guy. If you don't like Josh Donaldson you're a loser.

 

He sucks though. He will stay healthy for maybe 300 PA and hit like, .180 while playing softball defense.