2021 Collective Bargaining Agreement Discussion Thread

[Spanky99]

And so does yours. Kissing players ass. Pretending they are hard done by... LOL

 

I'm not, there's give and take, I'm embarrassed they both walked away from the table. Don't you get it are you going to go on like an invalid, with these childish sentences/posts once a week? Also, yes... some players are hard done by when you reflect on 1200 players.

 

It's weird, like your Hab posts, lol.

[John_Havok]

Well, what Manfred said is accurate. THe ball is in the PAs court.

 

Everyone leaving the city and no scheduled talks is not a good look. The Union can't afford to become the bad guy here and the longer this goes, the more the whole process will turn against them, likely from within.

 

If the PA was even half intelligent in seeing this coming, they would already have had a counter proposal pretty much ready to go and stated they were willing to stay and hash it out if the owners were.

[Abomination]

Well, what Manfred said is accurate. THe ball is in the PAs court.

 

Everyone leaving the city and no scheduled talks is not a good look. The Union can't afford to become the bad guy here and the longer this goes, the more the whole process will turn against them, likely from within.

 

If the PA was even half intelligent in seeing this coming, they would already have had a counter proposal pretty much ready to go and stated they were willing to stay and hash it out if the owners were.

 

I'm curious if the PA put the proposal to a full vote, would the players actually back up the position they're taking? In other words, do the union reps actually represent the player base?

[JaysAllMighty]

I'm not, there's give and take, I'm embarrassed they both walked away from the table. Don't you get it are you going to go on like an invalid, with these childish sentences/posts once a week? Also, yes... some players are hard done by when you reflect on 1200 players.

 

It's weird, like your Hab posts, lol.

 

JC, kind of early for you to be drunk.

[JFD]

The players are pathetic greedy ****s

 

Semien is a POS

[John_Havok]

The players are pathetic greedy ****s

 

Semien is a POS

 

ok.

[Ehjays]

the players are pathetic greedy ****s

 

semien is a pos

 

lol

[JFD]

Seriously.. listen to Semien talk. Couldn't think of a worse rep for the PA. He's a moron.

[rookiefuzz]

Im also wondering this. The PA said that they were there for the little guy. They got a massive increase in payroll for entree level players. The league also went to 12 teams in the postseason from their desired 14 (thank goodness).

 

The real issue is the CBT. This isn’t about the little guy anymore like the players claimed. It’s about turning $300 M contracts into $400 M contracts now. They said they want competition but this ceiling only affects 3 or 4 teams. If they get the ceiling they want, premium players will be richer and competition will suffer. It’s contrary to everything the PA said they were there for in the beginning.

[Ehjays]

I will say, if there was anything good at all in this, it was the amazing job TL did with the updates on Reddit. Great job.

[rookiefuzz]

Of course I was trying to quote abominations last post! I don’t post here enough ha.

[gruber92]

f*** the players.

[gruber92]

Im also wondering this. The PA said that they were there for the little guy. They got a massive increase in payroll for entree level players. The league also went to 12 teams in the postseason from their desired 14 (thank goodness).

 

The real issue is the CBT. This isn’t about the little guy anymore like the players claimed. It’s about turning $300 M contracts into $400 M contracts now. They said they want competition but this ceiling only affects 3 or 4 teams. If they get the ceiling they want, premium players will be richer and competition will suffer. It’s contrary to everything the PA said they were there for in the beginning.

 

Plus a new $30M pre arb pool. f*** the players.

[JFD]

Im also wondering this. The PA said that they were there for the little guy. They got a massive increase in payroll for entree level players. The league also went to 12 teams in the postseason from their desired 14 (thank goodness).

 

The real issue is the CBT. This isn’t about the little guy anymore like the players claimed. It’s about turning $300 M contracts into $400 M contracts now. They said they want competition but this ceiling only affects 3 or 4 teams. If they get the ceiling they want, premium players will be richer and competition will suffer. It’s contrary to everything the PA said they were there for in the beginning.

 

Bingo

[John_Havok]

Im also wondering this. The PA said that they were there for the little guy. They got a massive increase in payroll for entree level players. The league also went to 12 teams in the postseason from their desired 14 (thank goodness).

 

The real issue is the CBT. This isn’t about the little guy anymore like the players claimed. It’s about turning $300 M contracts into $400 M contracts now. They said they want competition but this ceiling only affects 3 or 4 teams. If they get the ceiling they want, premium players will be richer and competition will suffer. It’s contrary to everything the PA said they were there for in the beginning.

 

Not quite, but i think there's elements of truth to what you're saying. the Luxury tax probably should increase though. The PA wants teams that can get up to that number, to get up to that number or over as often as possible. Most teams treat it as a cap anyways due to the penalties, so the union still sees money being left on the table that could be spent on it's members. The Union still needs to fight for that as part of their mandate. If they didn't, they wouldnt be doing their job.

 

But I somewhat agree with you that when the main message of this entire negotiation has been to fight for the little guy, and the little guy got some pretty good increases in the quality of their paychecks. Therefore, the CBT (which did also move up.. just not as much as they'd like) shouldn't be what stops a deal from getting done. And likely it wasn't the sole reason, but that's how it's going to look.

[rookiefuzz]

Plus a new $30M pre arb pool. f*** the players.

 

Exactly! They got what they said they were looking for but now we see that’s not the case.

 

Bobcat had Buck on his podcast a few days ago and cited what David Stern told him long ago during an NBA stoppage:

 

“Bob, we have $5.2 billion that we have budgeted for payroll. How the players divide that up, we do not care! But it’s $5.2 billion., no more.”

 

These players want more pie for the richest of the bunch, and I just ain’t buying it. This is on them.

[rookiefuzz]

Not quite, but i think there's elements of truth to what you're saying. the Luxury tax probably should increase though. The PA wants teams that can get up to that number, to get up to that number or over as often as possible. Most teams treat it as a cap anyways due to the penalties, so the union still sees money being left on the table that could be spent on it's members. The Union still needs to fight for that as part of their mandate. If they didn't, they wouldnt be doing their job.

 

But I somewhat agree with you that when the main message of this entire negotiation has been to fight for the little guy, and the little guy got some pretty good increases in the quality of their paychecks. Therefore, the CBT (which did also move up.. just not as much as they'd like) shouldn't be what stops a deal from getting done. And likely it wasn't the sole reason, but that's how it's going to look.

 

Great points. The PA will always fight for higher salary no matter what, it’s their job that is true. But the scope of what they have already accomplished is great. They did a good thing getting more for their little guys. But now it bends into a PA losing sight of the bird they have in hand at the cost of the premium players getting more in the long run.

 

I bet if they put the last proposal to a vote from all the players it would have a shot at being ratified.

[Spanky99]

Well, what Manfred said is accurate. THe ball is in the PAs court.

 

Everyone leaving the city and no scheduled talks is not a good look. The Union can't afford to become the bad guy here and the longer this goes, the more the whole process will turn against them, likely from within.

 

If the PA was even half intelligent in seeing this coming, they would already have had a counter proposal pretty much ready to go and stated they were willing to stay and hash it out if the owners were.

 

Thursday in NY apparently, according to the MLBN tv box.

[Spanky99]

I'm curious if the PA put the proposal to a full vote, would the players actually back up the position they're taking? In other words, do the union reps actually represent the player base?

 

That's why the talks ended last night, so they could report to the players. I believe it does.

[Spanky99]

JC, kind of early for you to be drunk.

 

That's what you got copper? f***ing boot licking pig.

[Brownie19]

I will say, if there was anything good at all in this, it was the amazing job TL did with the updates on Reddit. Great job.

 

why didn't he keep us updated? TL prioritized Reddit over us?

[Brownie19]

So MLB wants 14 playoff teams and the MLBPA only wants 12? I would have thought players wanted more chances to make the playoffs and to win the WS. Is this simply because they don't get paid more for playing playoff games? I just can't imagine they are truly looking at it from a what's best for the game perspective (ie, where they say 14 teams is too many).

[Spanky99]

why didn't he keep us updated? TL prioritized Reddit over us?

 

He loves and promotes it all the time. Dude missed his draft in one of our leagues that he was stoked to own, but can rep 9 days of the Reddit online... I've been broken... *weeps* Where were you TL?

[Deadpool]

So MLB wants 14 playoff teams and the MLBPA only wants 12? I would have thought players wanted more chances to make the playoffs and to win the WS. Is this simply because they don't get paid more for playing playoff games? I just can't imagine they are truly looking at it from a what's best for the game perspective (ie, where they say 14 teams is too many).

 

Too many playoff spots means teams have less incentive to pay the best players top dollars. If you can squeak in to the playoffs every year as a .500 club, you might be less inclined to pay for that one piece that puts you over the top. Also, 14 teams is absurd. 12 is too many IMO, but I can deal with that if it gets everyone back to the game.

[Brownie19]

Exactly! They got what they said they were looking for but now we see that’s not the case.

 

Bobcat had Buck on his podcast a few days ago and cited what David Stern told him long ago during an NBA stoppage:

 

“Bob, we have $5.2 billion that we have budgeted for payroll. How the players divide that up, we do not care! But it’s $5.2 billion., no more.”

 

These players want more pie for the richest of the bunch, and I just ain’t buying it. This is on them.

 

Someone posted that 60% of the PA's last year came from players with 1 to 3 years experience, who they only made 4% of the total salaries in baseball. I think that's a major issue and if I play off your example above, the Owners say this is how much we have in salaries - you guys figure out how to divvy it up. I think in this case, the older players want to improve that distribution, while maintaining the amount the top earners make.

 

There's also the (likely legitimate) argument that the Owners simply keep too much of the pie anyway - I'm a bit shocked that a minimum cap (or CBT) wasn't proposed. If we only have 3-4 teams willing to spend up to the CBT right now - raising it won't add more $ to the players. Adding a minimum could drastically increase the slice of the pie the players get. Perhaps they knew that would be met with great resistance and simply wasn't worth proposing?

[Brownie19]

Too many playoff spots means teams have less incentive to pay the best players top dollars. If you can squeak in to the playoffs every year as a .500 club, you might be less inclined to pay for that one piece that puts you over the top. Also, 14 teams is absurd. 12 is too many IMO, but I can deal with that if it gets everyone back to the game.

 

Thanks DP - makes sense. Love how much I learn from this board.

[Jimcanuck]

Thanks DP - makes sense. Love how much I learn from this board.

 

He's just posting what he learned from me last week.

[Spanky99]

He's just posting what he learned from me last week.

 

lol

[John_Havok]

Someone posted that 60% of the PA's last year came from players with 1 to 3 years experience, who they only made 4% of the total salaries in baseball. I think that's a major issue and if I play off your example above, the Owners say this is how much we have in salaries - you guys figure out how to divvy it up. I think in this case, the older players want to improve that distribution, while maintaining the amount the top earners make.

 

There's also the (likely legitimate) argument that the Owners simply keep too much of the pie anyway - I'm a bit shocked that a minimum cap (or CBT) wasn't proposed. If we only have 3-4 teams willing to spend up to the CBT right now - raising it won't add more $ to the players. Adding a minimum could drastically increase the slice of the pie the players get. Perhaps they knew that would be met with great resistance and simply wasn't worth proposing?

 

I think getting the CBT raised is just part of the bigger picture of revenue sharing. When the top teams can spend big money while the low end end teams just pocket it and dont spend it on players like they "should" be then may as well let the big boys throw cash around. Both New York clubs, Boston, the Dodgers.... all of them could spend 250-300 million on salary every year and still make shitloads of profit.

[Jimcanuck]

Up the playoff teams to 12 or 14, the Rays cut payroll, guaranteed.