Shapiro take note ( AKA: Shapiro has no balls)

[Carlos Danger]

Shapiro is always talking about a sustainable team. That is corporate speak for continuously competitive..

 

Shapiro did that in Cleveland. But never won a WS.

 

The Blue Jays prior to Shapiro were always a team in WC conversation. Sometimes even picked to win the AL East.

 

The Raptors were a great regular season team and a playoff team year after year.. However, they always sputtered out in early playoff rounds.

 

I have said on here since 2015 that I don't believe that if Shapiro was still in Cleveland that they make the Miller trade that basically propelled them to a few out from winning the WC.

 

AA would not have been permitted to do his 2015 trade spree. That got us to within 1 game and some bad strike calls/bad luck of the WS.

 

AA pulled the trigger and went all in and we loved it, that is what baseball is supposed to feel like.

 

Masai pulled the trigger and he went all in and we WON! We WON and if felt awesome, you can never take that away.

 

I don't want a pre-Kawhi version of the Raptors for the Blue Jays.. A plus or .500 team that is competitive year in a year out but never makes it to the promised land = WS Championship

 

I truly believe you will never see a AA July 2015 trades line move with this FO, nor a Masai 2018 off season move like going all in sacrificing long term.

 

I was listening to some Toronto radio host on SN 590 pre-Warriors series.. He said we should all be happy to be in the finals, what ever happens it has been a great season.

 

********! You should never be just happy to be in the Finals, or playoffs, or that you had a good season. You objective and your mission should always be to win it all! Anything but a Championship should be considered failure and you need to go back to the drawing board and see how you can get over the hump.

 

I do not believe that Shapiro based on his history and comments will ever have the balls to sacrifice the future or sustainability for a WS win. While we might be a good team that is in the playoff hunt, every year, he will not approve/have the balls to do what is needed to put us over the top if need be....

 

Basically I think we have years of competitive teams to look forward to, but not a WS winner under Shapiro..

 

- Sage wisdom by Charlie Danger

[jays4life19]

Do you feel better now?

[King]

This is just my personal feeling/speculation(s), but I have a feeling (not quite 50-50% but close to it), that the Jays wind up bringing back either one of Joey Bats AND/or EE.

I think JB might have a hit to his pride, like many have said, since he might have to take less money, and less years on the deal. He might have to play LF, with either Zeek or someone else manning RF that the Jays acquire, and occasionally playing 1B and DH.

With EE, I could see them possibly bringing him back on a lesser contract than he expected to get, maybe even a one year deal, or a 3 year deal, with an opt out/player options for the next two (a la what the Mets had with Cespedes), and he can start at 1B, with Pearce moving to LF. It wouldn't be ideal defensively, but it gives the Jays more power.

 

I could see both coming back on less AAV deals, or backloaded deals, or short term (1-3) simply because, if someone wanted them, they'd be signed by now. You look at the moves made by other teams to add power bats, some even older than both of them, giving up some nice prospects, and they're sitting in the cold right now.

 

EE would be a bit more difficult with Morales at DH full time, but as i said, EE could man 1B. Wouldn't be ideal, but he showed he could handle it at least decently. Pearce has the ability to play LF. It might not be the best defense, but if EE wants to come back, can't find a place elsewhere, and the Jays can say "hey, we offered you a solid deal, you said no, you didn't find anything, you want to come back, the door is still cracked open, but it'll be at a one year deal worth this amount which is lower than you expected, or a short term deal, with an opt out, or less money, but you'll have a place to play, and on a contending team, we'll make it work" then maybe he comes back.

 

Similar with JB. If someone wanted him, he'd be signed by now. Maybe he doesn't get the AAV he wants, but maybe he gets the number of years he wants, or maybe a higher AAV on a short term deal.

 

I see JB more likely to come back simply because they can, worse case, stick him in LF, or work him out at 1B during ST, and Pearce in LF, and see how that goes. If not for anything just to see how it works out in case they want to try it during the season, but I see JB in LF, Pearce/Smoak manning 1B, unless they find a taker for Smoak. But then we lose a switch hitter (mostly a LHH, but he seems all or nothing. Could be from lack of ABs or he just is all or nothing).

 

I'm sure a lot of teams aren't jumping on these two, because, 1) the draft pick tied to them, 2) they might be asking for too much. I can see EE declining the rumoured Jays' offer of 4/$80 to test the market and because he's earned the FA rights, but the Jays weren't going to sit around waiting. One, or both might come back if the Jays say hey, here's the deal. Come back on one year deals, or 2-3 year deals on lesser AAV or backloaded deals (not a fan of those), and you get to play for a contender, and if you come back for one year, two years, you hit the market next year and might get a better chance especially with the changes to the CBA and the QO system, or you opt out and try your luck, and hopefully by then, the Jays have internal options, or can target other guys on the FA market next season.

 

Maybe they even try to bring back Saunders. It's odd no one has made a play on him yet. I know there's concerns about his knee, how he seemed to just disappear offensively in the 2nd half, but he made less than $3M, you'd think he could be had for next to nothing. Even doubling his contract from last year is a cheap gamble considering what some guys are getting this year who are much older (yes, I know, better histories of being consistent too).

 

I'm sure the Jays have back up plans and have targeted players either via free agency and/or trade, and the meetings are typically where sometimes ground work is just laid out. With what they need (1-2 corner OF, back up catcher, even though they've added AJ back to the roster and signed Mike Ohlman to a minor's contract who seems like he could compete for a back up spot as catcher, and really need some BP arms to compete with the revamped teams in the AL East, especially since we saw last season, if not the past 2-3, how early on the pen collapsing costed the team much needed games that they couldn't make up later on) they're certainly not done. I'ts not even mid December and many players aren't really concerned with what's going on (again just my opinion) especially with the holidays coming up, so there might be a flurry of moves made before the holidays, shortly after, plus there's January where you see guys who haven't found homes yet, sign for less.

 

To recap, I could actually see them bringing back both EE and JB on lesser contracts, and possibly (if not definitely) moving Smoak (really a cheap contract that someone will likely take on without the Jays having to pay anything on it, maybe a little bit if they're getting a solid BP arm, or three team trade might make it so they can just dump his contract without paying), and utilizing Pearce's ability to play LF to help out with accommodating one or both of them. But as I said it might require opt out clauses/player options, with back loaded contracts to get them back, and to address the bullpen. I really see it more likely that JB could return simply because he's more of a fit. We could use an OF. He fits. He's a fan favourite here (for the most part), and is kind of sitting waiting for a suitor. As long as what he's paid this year (which is why I stress maybe a 1-2-3 year deal, with opt out or back loaded) won't cripple the team's chances of trying to help with the 'pen, then I can see him back. EE would be a lot tougher since we have a full time DH, a guy who's a fairly solid 1B in Pearce, though he could play LF if needed, but might not be best defensively, and a redundant player with having Smoak sitting on the bench, wasting money.

 

Personally, I like both players, I like EE a bit more, but since he turned down the deal, the Jays had to act, rather than be left out in the cold, so I wouldn't mind if they went elsewhere and the Jays wind up with a pair of draft picks to help add some players to the farm. I also wouldn't mind seeing one, or even both back, providing it doesn't hurt the team's financial needs to try and bring in BP help. Both seems highly unlikely. One doesn't seem likely. I could be wrong, but their markets seem dry. They both seem to like Toronto. The FO could have just said we're moving on since we only have $X to spend and need some more help in the pen, especially since Cecil is gone, Loup hasn't been the same guy over the past two season that he was during the first few seasons. We have some rookies who look promising, but if you're going to contend you don't want to count on them. They could be like Biagini last year and surprise everyone, but you don't want to count on that, because if they falter, who are you going to? Biagini is going to prepare as a starter (or so it's said, but likely will be in the pen, to help Grilli in that set up role, unless a starter goes down, and they stick him in the rotation), our recent Rule 5 pick could be a nice pick up, but I'm not holding my breath.

 

If either return, it's going to have to be at a discount, or back loaded deal, or opt out/play option deal, that might be a blow to their egos, or might upset the union, since if either come back for less than the QO, or what some other guys were getting, the union might not be happy, but screw them.

 

Ideally, I'd like to see the Jays add some starter depth. Even though the Jays barely, but still had a good staff since they were a few points better than the team that beat them and went to the World Series, lead the league in ERA, I still think they need some starters to help out just in case.

 

So, excuse my long post, and getting off topic, since this is a JB thread, I can actually see him returning, mostly since his age, his poor season, people like him here, he seemed to like being here, (here means Toronto, I don't actually live there), but it would have to be at a lesser price than he is/was expecting, probably lower than the QO, maybe a 2-3 year deal, that is back loaded, which I don't like, especially for an aging player. Granted his injuries (slamming into the wall and hurting his toe, and them keeping him out because they didn't want to rush him back is understandable, and it was a more "freak accident" since it could happen to a 23 year old blue chip prospect, and his other injury, correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't it a knee/leg injury from getting caught in the seem of the turf? That could happen to anyone) played a role in his production, or lack thereof, but when healthy it looked like he was either trying too hard, or just never found his grove. He's defense has been poor, so maybe the swap to LF, or maybe starting games at 1B, and seeing how Pearce can play in LF during spring, might help out, or maybe just tell him, we want you to bite the bullet, swallow your pride and play LF, because your defense is fallen, and look for a better option for RF.

 

I think he's still not signed because of the draft pick, maybe his asking price, the talk of his ego/attitude since he seems to be a guy people either love or hate, and sometimes he spoke his mind more than he should have, or thought before speaking, and when OF are getting a king's ransom in trades, while he just sits waiting, something is up there. Maybe he's being stubborn, or his agent(s) are just trying to get him that one last deal since he's 36, and likely won't get much, coming off his worse season, or maybe multiple factors, or trying to wait and see what teams get desperate at the end of the offseason and will part with the pick to sign him. I wouldn't mind him back if he was moved to LF, maybe played 1B at times, DHed other games, and he didn't cost that much this year, which keeps the team from addressing other needs.

 

All that being said, as long as the Jays do what makes them a better team, gives them depth, gives them the ability to score runs, prevent runs, compete, and maybe make it to the World Series this year, obviously need some depth too since some guys are out of options, and might get lost on waivers, or are borderline replacement guys who were claimed, I'll be happy. If JB does come back, and can give at least one more year of solid production, and doesn't have a bad season, then I'll be happy. If he goes elsewhere, the Jays get a pick for him, and they fill the spot with someone with production, defense, and athleticism, I'll be happy. Whatever makes the team better, can score runs, prevent them, get back to the post season, and this time win the ALCS, then I'll be very happy. The other teams improved. It doesn't mean the Jays have to go nuts to compete blow for blow in acquisitions, since we have some good pitching, at least starters, some offense, defense, but we could use some depth, bullpen help, starter depth, and hopefully not have to rely on the homer run as often.

 

And since I'm making a huge post, and touching on many subjects, just a quick comment on the Yankees' code about facial hair, hair length, dress codes, and other things. I know many clubs have certain rules. I think MLB requires players to wear suits while traveling (from one city to another, but not wear them all the time, again, if I'm wrong, someone correct me), but the rules the Yankees have, even though they've had a long history, just seem a bit overboard to me. And no, it's not just because I'm a guy with long hair and a goatee that would have to be cut and shaved if I were to play for them. It just seems like arbitrary rules to have. I can see if someone signed as a FA, then you know what you're getting into. It's like taking any job and they say here's the dress code and how you must look. That is a little more understandable to me. But what about the guys who get traded, claimed on waivers, who don't have a say? They're supposed to give up what they consider their identity? I get you're earning more money than most people will see in many life times, and it's probably a small price to pay, and your employer can kind of dictate what you can and can't look like, (MLB with the "Brandon League Rule about having to wear sleeves or other covers on your arms if you have tattoos that might distract hitters, I'd think, and this is also coming from playing baseball for years, that unless the ink looks like a ball, you're not really going to be too distracted, but safety, ok), but let the players be themselves, and as long as they're not being a distraction to the team, who cares? If they get the job done, who cares? Hell, my back doctor looks like a guy you'd mistake as a Hell's Angel, and is the nicest guy you could meet. They talk about team chemistry (AA did, the Jays have over the past few years, and then they started to get good), you're kind of disrupting it if you're making people change who they are, in a sense. Maybe it's just me.

 

OK, I'm shutting up now. I've posted enough for a week with this post.

[jays4life19]

This is just my personal feeling/speculation(s), but I have a feeling (not quite 50-50% but close to it), that the Jays wind up bringing back either one of Joey Bats AND/or EE.

I think JB might have a hit to his pride, like many have said, since he might have to take less money, and less years on the deal. He might have to play LF, with either Zeek or someone else manning RF that the Jays acquire, and occasionally playing 1B and DH.

With EE, I could see them possibly bringing him back on a lesser contract than he expected to get, maybe even a one year deal, or a 3 year deal, with an opt out/player options for the next two (a la what the Mets had with Cespedes), and he can start at 1B, with Pearce moving to LF. It wouldn't be ideal defensively, but it gives the Jays more power.

 

I could see both coming back on less AAV deals, or backloaded deals, or short term (1-3) simply because, if someone wanted them, they'd be signed by now. You look at the moves made by other teams to add power bats, some even older than both of them, giving up some nice prospects, and they're sitting in the cold right now.

 

EE would be a bit more difficult with Morales at DH full time, but as i said, EE could man 1B. Wouldn't be ideal, but he showed he could handle it at least decently. Pearce has the ability to play LF. It might not be the best defense, but if EE wants to come back, can't find a place elsewhere, and the Jays can say "hey, we offered you a solid deal, you said no, you didn't find anything, you want to come back, the door is still cracked open, but it'll be at a one year deal worth this amount which is lower than you expected, or a short term deal, with an opt out, or less money, but you'll have a place to play, and on a contending team, we'll make it work" then maybe he comes back.

 

Similar with JB. If someone wanted him, he'd be signed by now. Maybe he doesn't get the AAV he wants, but maybe he gets the number of years he wants, or maybe a higher AAV on a short term deal.

 

I see JB more likely to come back simply because they can, worse case, stick him in LF, or work him out at 1B during ST, and Pearce in LF, and see how that goes. If not for anything just to see how it works out in case they want to try it during the season, but I see JB in LF, Pearce/Smoak manning 1B, unless they find a taker for Smoak. But then we lose a switch hitter (mostly a LHH, but he seems all or nothing. Could be from lack of ABs or he just is all or nothing).

 

I'm sure a lot of teams aren't jumping on these two, because, 1) the draft pick tied to them, 2) they might be asking for too much. I can see EE declining the rumoured Jays' offer of 4/$80 to test the market and because he's earned the FA rights, but the Jays weren't going to sit around waiting. One, or both might come back if the Jays say hey, here's the deal. Come back on one year deals, or 2-3 year deals on lesser AAV or backloaded deals (not a fan of those), and you get to play for a contender, and if you come back for one year, two years, you hit the market next year and might get a better chance especially with the changes to the CBA and the QO system, or you opt out and try your luck, and hopefully by then, the Jays have internal options, or can target other guys on the FA market next season.

 

Maybe they even try to bring back Saunders. It's odd no one has made a play on him yet. I know there's concerns about his knee, how he seemed to just disappear offensively in the 2nd half, but he made less than $3M, you'd think he could be had for next to nothing. Even doubling his contract from last year is a cheap gamble considering what some guys are getting this year who are much older (yes, I know, better histories of being consistent too).

 

I'm sure the Jays have back up plans and have targeted players either via free agency and/or trade, and the meetings are typically where sometimes ground work is just laid out. With what they need (1-2 corner OF, back up catcher, even though they've added AJ back to the roster and signed Mike Ohlman to a minor's contract who seems like he could compete for a back up spot as catcher, and really need some BP arms to compete with the revamped teams in the AL East, especially since we saw last season, if not the past 2-3, how early on the pen collapsing costed the team much needed games that they couldn't make up later on) they're certainly not done. I'ts not even mid December and many players aren't really concerned with what's going on (again just my opinion) especially with the holidays coming up, so there might be a flurry of moves made before the holidays, shortly after, plus there's January where you see guys who haven't found homes yet, sign for less.

 

To recap, I could actually see them bringing back both EE and JB on lesser contracts, and possibly (if not definitely) moving Smoak (really a cheap contract that someone will likely take on without the Jays having to pay anything on it, maybe a little bit if they're getting a solid BP arm, or three team trade might make it so they can just dump his contract without paying), and utilizing Pearce's ability to play LF to help out with accommodating one or both of them. But as I said it might require opt out clauses/player options, with back loaded contracts to get them back, and to address the bullpen. I really see it more likely that JB could return simply because he's more of a fit. We could use an OF. He fits. He's a fan favourite here (for the most part), and is kind of sitting waiting for a suitor. As long as what he's paid this year (which is why I stress maybe a 1-2-3 year deal, with opt out or back loaded) won't cripple the team's chances of trying to help with the 'pen, then I can see him back. EE would be a lot tougher since we have a full time DH, a guy who's a fairly solid 1B in Pearce, though he could play LF if needed, but might not be best defensively, and a redundant player with having Smoak sitting on the bench, wasting money.

 

Personally, I like both players, I like EE a bit more, but since he turned down the deal, the Jays had to act, rather than be left out in the cold, so I wouldn't mind if they went elsewhere and the Jays wind up with a pair of draft picks to help add some players to the farm. I also wouldn't mind seeing one, or even both back, providing it doesn't hurt the team's financial needs to try and bring in BP help. Both seems highly unlikely. One doesn't seem likely. I could be wrong, but their markets seem dry. They both seem to like Toronto. The FO could have just said we're moving on since we only have $X to spend and need some more help in the pen, especially since Cecil is gone, Loup hasn't been the same guy over the past two season that he was during the first few seasons. We have some rookies who look promising, but if you're going to contend you don't want to count on them. They could be like Biagini last year and surprise everyone, but you don't want to count on that, because if they falter, who are you going to? Biagini is going to prepare as a starter (or so it's said, but likely will be in the pen, to help Grilli in that set up role, unless a starter goes down, and they stick him in the rotation), our recent Rule 5 pick could be a nice pick up, but I'm not holding my breath.

 

If either return, it's going to have to be at a discount, or back loaded deal, or opt out/play option deal, that might be a blow to their egos, or might upset the union, since if either come back for less than the QO, or what some other guys were getting, the union might not be happy, but screw them.

 

Ideally, I'd like to see the Jays add some starter depth. Even though the Jays barely, but still had a good staff since they were a few points better than the team that beat them and went to the World Series, lead the league in ERA, I still think they need some starters to help out just in case.

 

So, excuse my long post, and getting off topic, since this is a JB thread, I can actually see him returning, mostly since his age, his poor season, people like him here, he seemed to like being here, (here means Toronto, I don't actually live there), but it would have to be at a lesser price than he is/was expecting, probably lower than the QO, maybe a 2-3 year deal, that is back loaded, which I don't like, especially for an aging player. Granted his injuries (slamming into the wall and hurting his toe, and them keeping him out because they didn't want to rush him back is understandable, and it was a more "freak accident" since it could happen to a 23 year old blue chip prospect, and his other injury, correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't it a knee/leg injury from getting caught in the seem of the turf? That could happen to anyone) played a role in his production, or lack thereof, but when healthy it looked like he was either trying too hard, or just never found his grove. He's defense has been poor, so maybe the swap to LF, or maybe starting games at 1B, and seeing how Pearce can play in LF during spring, might help out, or maybe just tell him, we want you to bite the bullet, swallow your pride and play LF, because your defense is fallen, and look for a better option for RF.

 

I think he's still not signed because of the draft pick, maybe his asking price, the talk of his ego/attitude since he seems to be a guy people either love or hate, and sometimes he spoke his mind more than he should have, or thought before speaking, and when OF are getting a king's ransom in trades, while he just sits waiting, something is up there. Maybe he's being stubborn, or his agent(s) are just trying to get him that one last deal since he's 36, and likely won't get much, coming off his worse season, or maybe multiple factors, or trying to wait and see what teams get desperate at the end of the offseason and will part with the pick to sign him. I wouldn't mind him back if he was moved to LF, maybe played 1B at times, DHed other games, and he didn't cost that much this year, which keeps the team from addressing other needs.

 

All that being said, as long as the Jays do what makes them a better team, gives them depth, gives them the ability to score runs, prevent runs, compete, and maybe make it to the World Series this year, obviously need some depth too since some guys are out of options, and might get lost on waivers, or are borderline replacement guys who were claimed, I'll be happy. If JB does come back, and can give at least one more year of solid production, and doesn't have a bad season, then I'll be happy. If he goes elsewhere, the Jays get a pick for him, and they fill the spot with someone with production, defense, and athleticism, I'll be happy. Whatever makes the team better, can score runs, prevent them, get back to the post season, and this time win the ALCS, then I'll be very happy. The other teams improved. It doesn't mean the Jays have to go nuts to compete blow for blow in acquisitions, since we have some good pitching, at least starters, some offense, defense, but we could use some depth, bullpen help, starter depth, and hopefully not have to rely on the homer run as often.

 

And since I'm making a huge post, and touching on many subjects, just a quick comment on the Yankees' code about facial hair, hair length, dress codes, and other things. I know many clubs have certain rules. I think MLB requires players to wear suits while traveling (from one city to another, but not wear them all the time, again, if I'm wrong, someone correct me), but the rules the Yankees have, even though they've had a long history, just seem a bit overboard to me. And no, it's not just because I'm a guy with long hair and a goatee that would have to be cut and shaved if I were to play for them. It just seems like arbitrary rules to have. I can see if someone signed as a FA, then you know what you're getting into. It's like taking any job and they say here's the dress code and how you must look. That is a little more understandable to me. But what about the guys who get traded, claimed on waivers, who don't have a say? They're supposed to give up what they consider their identity? I get you're earning more money than most people will see in many life times, and it's probably a small price to pay, and your employer can kind of dictate what you can and can't look like, (MLB with the "Brandon League Rule about having to wear sleeves or other covers on your arms if you have tattoos that might distract hitters, I'd think, and this is also coming from playing baseball for years, that unless the ink looks like a ball, you're not really going to be too distracted, but safety, ok), but let the players be themselves, and as long as they're not being a distraction to the team, who cares? If they get the job done, who cares? Hell, my back doctor looks like a guy you'd mistake as a Hell's Angel, and is the nicest guy you could meet. They talk about team chemistry (AA did, the Jays have over the past few years, and then they started to get good), you're kind of disrupting it if you're making people change who they are, in a sense. Maybe it's just me.

 

OK, I'm shutting up now. I've posted enough for a week with this post.

 

I agree with this

[King]

I agree with this

This is just my opinion, and might be shared by some, but some guys it might be a bit early to tell, and don't want to jump the gun on (see Hinske and Wells, though Wells, wasn't as bad, especially since AA somehow unloaded that contract) since you don't know if the player will regress or the league figure them out. I do like the idea of trying to get guys locked into fair, but team friendly deals, so it helps you know your budget with a bit more certainty years down the line, and if the player continues at their performance, wonderful, if they get even better, then it's a steal. On the other hand, you could wind up playing for a player who winds up injury plagued (sometimes that can't be helped, either it's just their body, or freak accidents, like JB getting his cleat stuck in the seem of the OF turn and straining his knee), or someone who doesn't live up to what they did before, or gets worse. But for sake of argument, and for the purposes of this thread, I'll throw out some names on who I would try to lock up, at least through arbitration, or a deal that includes team options for those years, so if the player doesn't have a good year, is injured, the team can decline the option, and either non-tender them, or go to arbitration/avoid it by signing them to a cheaper deal (Saunders this year received a very small, relative to arbitration, salary increase due to him being injured, and didn't have a leg to stand on to fight for a larger payday, and no that wasn't meant to be a s***** pun). So, here's my list:

 

Osuna. Relief pitchers are notoriously unstable, with the exception of a few, and they're usually closers, or set-up men. Roberto has been our closer the past two years (his first two in the bigs, and I believe the first time above A ball, correct me if I'm wrong). He seems to have had essentially a similar year to his first, minus some hiccups here and there, which, he's human, it's to be expected, but in the playoffs, he was even better than last year, going 9.0 IP giving up 0, as in zero, runs, walked no one, and struck out 10, better than last post season. He pitched about as many innings and games this year as last, so it's fair to compare them. Of course we don't know how he'll be next year, no one can predict how a player will be, but if he remains as is, he could get expensive in arbitration, and quickly, especially if he keeps racking up saves, and making big leaguers look foolish. He's also young, very young for his success, by MLB standards, (I think he'll be 23), and some guys don't break into the bigs until around 25 give or take. So, he still has some pretty good years ahead of him. Even if his velocity begins to drop, as it does with many pitchers just due to age, he seems to know how to pitch, already has two good off speed pitches in his slider, and change-up, so he could adjust a bit more easily, since he can locate the ball pretty well. He's only entering his 3rd year, and unless he gets sent down, which I don't see happening, he'll be eligible for arbitration next off season. They could try to go with a one-year deal, and talk extension, or if he has another solid year, or even better now that he's had more experience around, I wouldn't mind seeing them buyout his arbitration years, and maybe a year of FA, or just the arbitration years, and some team options. To keep the AAV lower, and maybe have him accept, offer larger buyouts on the options, or give him signing bonuses that would be paid, say first day of April of each year, when they're in Florida, so he doesn't lose income tax. Worse case, I would go one year of arbitration (hopefully avoiding it) to see what he does in 2017, and then maybe a 3-4 year deal with 1-2 options on it depending on the guaranteed years and money, and maybe some signing bonuses or larger buyouts than the typical $250-500K ones.

 

Sanchez. If Cot's is correct, this is his last year before he'll be eligible for arbitration in the offseason. So, similar deal with Osuna. I would let him play this season out, see how it goes, and if he pitches like he did this year, or better yet, improves on it, showing no signs of fatigue, or regression, or injury, make a similar offer where his arbitration years are bought out, with possibly a year or two of FA, either guaranteed or via option(s). He's still young, and if he can reproduce what he did last year, and better yet improve, he's a force to lead the rotation, and could get expensive, so offering up some guaranteed years, with some options, and/or higher buyouts, might be worth it.

 

Stroman. He qualified as a Super Two and will be eligible for arbitration this offseason with a projection of about $3-3.5M depending on your source. Keep in mind, many of them have predicted big contracts for JB and EE, and well, yeah. He still has 3 arbitration years ahead of him, so his price will only go up. Since he does have the stuff to be successful, even at the top of the rotation, I would let this year play out and see if he can rebound from a back and forth kind of year last year. He's another guy I would offer a similar contract to like Osuna and Sanchez, buying out arbitration for guaranteed money, maybe a FA year or two, and/or some team or vesting option(s) (forgot to mention those before).

 

Pillar: Believe it or not, I would be tempted to give him a contract to lock him in. He'll be arbitration eligible for the first time this offseason, so it could be a see what happens, then see what he does next year before talking about buying out the last of his arbitration and a FA year or two. My method for this madness is, he'll only be 28 come ST, so he should have a few good years left, so why not try to get them for the Jays at a team friendly, but fair contract, to one of the games best defensive CFs, a guy with some speed, who's hit 66 2B since taking over full time, and if he can be a bit more patient, might be able to draw some more walks, hit for a little more power, and get on base just a bit more. Career OBP of .303 isn't horrible, especially since he'll likely hit lower in the lineup, and his defense is more of what the team wants, and anything offensively is a bonus. Again, maybe a 3-4 year contract that's team friendly, maybe some options, maybe higher buyouts on the options, maybe signing bonuses paid in ST, so less income tax taken out, and if we get someone else who comes up through the farm, or signed, or traded for, if he's on a team friendly contract, much like anyone on one, trading them will be easier. If he starts to decline and is forced into one of the corner OF spots, or a team wants a CF, they can have a cheaper alternative, and maybe some options on the contract.

 

Donaldson. OK technically he's not "young" in the sense of this thread being he just turned 31, and is under contract this year, with one more year of arbitration, but I wouldn't mind giving him another 2-3 year deal, with vesting or team options, especially since the team will need a new "face of the franchise" with EE gone, and who knows with Bautista, but rumours are he's only looking for a one year deal. 3 years makes him 34. EE had a pretty good year at 33, and if the team rotates guys, like Donaldson and others, to have some off days, or DH duties, he could still be a strong bat at 33 maybe 34. At worse he gets a contract that might be movable in a trade, and the Jays can get something of value back. I don't personally seeing him dropping off a cliff in the next few years, but his all out play might be a problem, so a few days at DH, or a schedule day off might be good, and could always come off the bench if needed.

 

Travis. He's a bit hard to get a grasp on. He was almost a lock for ROY before shoulder issues ended his season, and kept him out early this season. Good thing is they found out the problem and fixed it. He enjoyed a solid year, and exceeded expectation of some, and made the trade look like a complete steal by the Jays. in only 101 games and 410 ABs he hit 28 2B, 1 3B, 11HR, 50 RBI, hit an even .300 with a .332 OBP, while doing a pretty good job in the field. Then the knee issue started which was originally a bone bruise, then it was a bone bruise with cartilage being stuck in between the knee joint. This could be chalked up to a freak accident, or making a double play where he had to pivot on the leg, causing a tear. Hell, I tore a meniscus getting into my car. So, I would give him at least this year to see what he can bring. We know he's capable of being a solid offensive player at his position, and play at least average, if not above average defense, and either play out the first year of arbitration, or like the above, try to buyout the years, with an option or two, signing bonuses, combination thereof.

 

Just from what I've seen during the past couple of years, the players' work ethic, their ages, they're the ones I'd try to lock in for the core, and try to keep their contracts low, but fair, I know hard balancing act at times. We know we have some players who for the next 2-3 seasons will make $20M a year, we have some guys who might be lost on waivers, and a few FA next year, so if the Jays can lock them in at inexpensive rates, they can then have more money to go out on the FA market, resign other players, take on money in trades, know what the players are going to make for the next few years, giving them an advantage. If someone comes up through the system, and winds up being a better player, or via trade, or via FA, the contracts could make them easier to trade since it wouldn't be a large sum of money. We've seen some contracts that are getting handed out, so if we can keep some of the young core players in the fold, at cheaper prices, why not? Worse case the players regress, or start to slow down a bit, but then it's not a huge investment (depending on what the figures are), especially when compared to some contracts that players get, especially later in their careers (right side of 30, or some case 35), and then start to fade, and are shells of themselves, who are all but unmovable, and you're stuck.

 

Overall, I think it's a gamble no matter how you look at it. Most of the younger players are either under contract (Lourdes Gurriel if he pans out) for a low amount, or aren't FA eligible yet for a few more years, so there isn't a real sense of urgency. Well, maybe with Donaldson, if the team isn't competitive, or he enters the final year of arbitration without talk of an extension, or even if they start talking, he might want to test the waters like EE and JB, so he's the only question mark. The others, even Stroman who is arbitration eligible now, are either this season removed, and will hit arbitration for their first time and either way, even Stroman is under team control for years to come. They could wait a year or two of arbitration before talking contract extensions, but if they can land them for team friendly deals, that won't handcuff the team, and the players take it, and it gives us some of, if not, the best years of those players careers, I say go for it. No one knows what will happen, so that's a gamble, but even if there's a regression, injury, player can't live up to what they've done before, and are average or worse, then it's not like signing a FA to a high AAV and stuck with them for a few years, where if the contracts are fair on both sides, we might get a nice core, for a relatively fair amount of money, all entering their primes, while allowing the team to have money to use elsewhere to try and sustain a potential contender for a few years, or at least take a step back, regroup with some acquisitions, and still have a number of players there, so you're shopping list is smaller. It's almost a Catch-22 since you might get a great deal with some of that players best years, for an inexpensive rate (relative to some of the market values), or at worse, it winds up like a Hinske deal, where the player is average, or subaverage, and you have to just eat the money, which isn't nearly as much as market value could be.

 

I'd say start talking to their reps and the players to get an idea, and take it from there. See what you have in house for replacements, or who you could get as a replacement without gutting the farm or having to overpay (well, more so) on the market.

 

Going year by year is another option, like some have said, because an injury could make that year's salary lesser, but it could rise, and then you could be stuck with trying to sign the player before or when they hit FA if you don't have another replacement. Or like I said before, give them a deal, with options on the last one or two option years, and/or FA year and see.

 

Just my opinions.

[Carlos Danger]

Your post

 

Your response is why you are not a winner... Content to cruise through a life of mediocrity.

 

There is a fight at Young & Bloor at midnight. Be there!

[BTS]

This is just my personal feeling/speculation(s), but I have a feeling (not quite 50-50% but close to it), that the Jays wind up bringing back either one of Joey Bats AND/or EE.

I think JB might have a hit to his pride, like many have said, since he might have to take less money, and less years on the deal. He might have to play LF, with either Zeek or someone else manning RF that the Jays acquire, and occasionally playing 1B and DH.

With EE, I could see them possibly bringing him back on a lesser contract than he expected to get, maybe even a one year deal, or a 3 year deal, with an opt out/player options for the next two (a la what the Mets had with Cespedes), and he can start at 1B, with Pearce moving to LF. It wouldn't be ideal defensively, but it gives the Jays more power.

 

I could see both coming back on less AAV deals, or backloaded deals, or short term (1-3) simply because, if someone wanted them, they'd be signed by now. You look at the moves made by other teams to add power bats, some even older than both of them, giving up some nice prospects, and they're sitting in the cold right now.

 

EE would be a bit more difficult with Morales at DH full time, but as i said, EE could man 1B. Wouldn't be ideal, but he showed he could handle it at least decently. Pearce has the ability to play LF. It might not be the best defense, but if EE wants to come back, can't find a place elsewhere, and the Jays can say "hey, we offered you a solid deal, you said no, you didn't find anything, you want to come back, the door is still cracked open, but it'll be at a one year deal worth this amount which is lower than you expected, or a short term deal, with an opt out, or less money, but you'll have a place to play, and on a contending team, we'll make it work" then maybe he comes back.

 

Similar with JB. If someone wanted him, he'd be signed by now. Maybe he doesn't get the AAV he wants, but maybe he gets the number of years he wants, or maybe a higher AAV on a short term deal.

 

I see JB more likely to come back simply because they can, worse case, stick him in LF, or work him out at 1B during ST, and Pearce in LF, and see how that goes. If not for anything just to see how it works out in case they want to try it during the season, but I see JB in LF, Pearce/Smoak manning 1B, unless they find a taker for Smoak. But then we lose a switch hitter (mostly a LHH, but he seems all or nothing. Could be from lack of ABs or he just is all or nothing).

 

I'm sure a lot of teams aren't jumping on these two, because, 1) the draft pick tied to them, 2) they might be asking for too much. I can see EE declining the rumoured Jays' offer of 4/$80 to test the market and because he's earned the FA rights, but the Jays weren't going to sit around waiting. One, or both might come back if the Jays say hey, here's the deal. Come back on one year deals, or 2-3 year deals on lesser AAV or backloaded deals (not a fan of those), and you get to play for a contender, and if you come back for one year, two years, you hit the market next year and might get a better chance especially with the changes to the CBA and the QO system, or you opt out and try your luck, and hopefully by then, the Jays have internal options, or can target other guys on the FA market next season.

 

Maybe they even try to bring back Saunders. It's odd no one has made a play on him yet. I know there's concerns about his knee, how he seemed to just disappear offensively in the 2nd half, but he made less than $3M, you'd think he could be had for next to nothing. Even doubling his contract from last year is a cheap gamble considering what some guys are getting this year who are much older (yes, I know, better histories of being consistent too).

 

I'm sure the Jays have back up plans and have targeted players either via free agency and/or trade, and the meetings are typically where sometimes ground work is just laid out. With what they need (1-2 corner OF, back up catcher, even though they've added AJ back to the roster and signed Mike Ohlman to a minor's contract who seems like he could compete for a back up spot as catcher, and really need some BP arms to compete with the revamped teams in the AL East, especially since we saw last season, if not the past 2-3, how early on the pen collapsing costed the team much needed games that they couldn't make up later on) they're certainly not done. I'ts not even mid December and many players aren't really concerned with what's going on (again just my opinion) especially with the holidays coming up, so there might be a flurry of moves made before the holidays, shortly after, plus there's January where you see guys who haven't found homes yet, sign for less.

 

To recap, I could actually see them bringing back both EE and JB on lesser contracts, and possibly (if not definitely) moving Smoak (really a cheap contract that someone will likely take on without the Jays having to pay anything on it, maybe a little bit if they're getting a solid BP arm, or three team trade might make it so they can just dump his contract without paying), and utilizing Pearce's ability to play LF to help out with accommodating one or both of them. But as I said it might require opt out clauses/player options, with back loaded contracts to get them back, and to address the bullpen. I really see it more likely that JB could return simply because he's more of a fit. We could use an OF. He fits. He's a fan favourite here (for the most part), and is kind of sitting waiting for a suitor. As long as what he's paid this year (which is why I stress maybe a 1-2-3 year deal, with opt out or back loaded) won't cripple the team's chances of trying to help with the 'pen, then I can see him back. EE would be a lot tougher since we have a full time DH, a guy who's a fairly solid 1B in Pearce, though he could play LF if needed, but might not be best defensively, and a redundant player with having Smoak sitting on the bench, wasting money.

 

Personally, I like both players, I like EE a bit more, but since he turned down the deal, the Jays had to act, rather than be left out in the cold, so I wouldn't mind if they went elsewhere and the Jays wind up with a pair of draft picks to help add some players to the farm. I also wouldn't mind seeing one, or even both back, providing it doesn't hurt the team's financial needs to try and bring in BP help. Both seems highly unlikely. One doesn't seem likely. I could be wrong, but their markets seem dry. They both seem to like Toronto. The FO could have just said we're moving on since we only have $X to spend and need some more help in the pen, especially since Cecil is gone, Loup hasn't been the same guy over the past two season that he was during the first few seasons. We have some rookies who look promising, but if you're going to contend you don't want to count on them. They could be like Biagini last year and surprise everyone, but you don't want to count on that, because if they falter, who are you going to? Biagini is going to prepare as a starter (or so it's said, but likely will be in the pen, to help Grilli in that set up role, unless a starter goes down, and they stick him in the rotation), our recent Rule 5 pick could be a nice pick up, but I'm not holding my breath.

 

If either return, it's going to have to be at a discount, or back loaded deal, or opt out/play option deal, that might be a blow to their egos, or might upset the union, since if either come back for less than the QO, or what some other guys were getting, the union might not be happy, but screw them.

 

Ideally, I'd like to see the Jays add some starter depth. Even though the Jays barely, but still had a good staff since they were a few points better than the team that beat them and went to the World Series, lead the league in ERA, I still think they need some starters to help out just in case.

 

So, excuse my long post, and getting off topic, since this is a JB thread, I can actually see him returning, mostly since his age, his poor season, people like him here, he seemed to like being here, (here means Toronto, I don't actually live there), but it would have to be at a lesser price than he is/was expecting, probably lower than the QO, maybe a 2-3 year deal, that is back loaded, which I don't like, especially for an aging player. Granted his injuries (slamming into the wall and hurting his toe, and them keeping him out because they didn't want to rush him back is understandable, and it was a more "freak accident" since it could happen to a 23 year old blue chip prospect, and his other injury, correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't it a knee/leg injury from getting caught in the seem of the turf? That could happen to anyone) played a role in his production, or lack thereof, but when healthy it looked like he was either trying too hard, or just never found his grove. He's defense has been poor, so maybe the swap to LF, or maybe starting games at 1B, and seeing how Pearce can play in LF during spring, might help out, or maybe just tell him, we want you to bite the bullet, swallow your pride and play LF, because your defense is fallen, and look for a better option for RF.

 

I think he's still not signed because of the draft pick, maybe his asking price, the talk of his ego/attitude since he seems to be a guy people either love or hate, and sometimes he spoke his mind more than he should have, or thought before speaking, and when OF are getting a king's ransom in trades, while he just sits waiting, something is up there. Maybe he's being stubborn, or his agent(s) are just trying to get him that one last deal since he's 36, and likely won't get much, coming off his worse season, or maybe multiple factors, or trying to wait and see what teams get desperate at the end of the offseason and will part with the pick to sign him. I wouldn't mind him back if he was moved to LF, maybe played 1B at times, DHed other games, and he didn't cost that much this year, which keeps the team from addressing other needs.

 

All that being said, as long as the Jays do what makes them a better team, gives them depth, gives them the ability to score runs, prevent runs, compete, and maybe make it to the World Series this year, obviously need some depth too since some guys are out of options, and might get lost on waivers, or are borderline replacement guys who were claimed, I'll be happy. If JB does come back, and can give at least one more year of solid production, and doesn't have a bad season, then I'll be happy. If he goes elsewhere, the Jays get a pick for him, and they fill the spot with someone with production, defense, and athleticism, I'll be happy. Whatever makes the team better, can score runs, prevent them, get back to the post season, and this time win the ALCS, then I'll be very happy. The other teams improved. It doesn't mean the Jays have to go nuts to compete blow for blow in acquisitions, since we have some good pitching, at least starters, some offense, defense, but we could use some depth, bullpen help, starter depth, and hopefully not have to rely on the homer run as often.

 

And since I'm making a huge post, and touching on many subjects, just a quick comment on the Yankees' code about facial hair, hair length, dress codes, and other things. I know many clubs have certain rules. I think MLB requires players to wear suits while traveling (from one city to another, but not wear them all the time, again, if I'm wrong, someone correct me), but the rules the Yankees have, even though they've had a long history, just seem a bit overboard to me. And no, it's not just because I'm a guy with long hair and a goatee that would have to be cut and shaved if I were to play for them. It just seems like arbitrary rules to have. I can see if someone signed as a FA, then you know what you're getting into. It's like taking any job and they say here's the dress code and how you must look. That is a little more understandable to me. But what about the guys who get traded, claimed on waivers, who don't have a say? They're supposed to give up what they consider their identity? I get you're earning more money than most people will see in many life times, and it's probably a small price to pay, and your employer can kind of dictate what you can and can't look like, (MLB with the "Brandon League Rule about having to wear sleeves or other covers on your arms if you have tattoos that might distract hitters, I'd think, and this is also coming from playing baseball for years, that unless the ink looks like a ball, you're not really going to be too distracted, but safety, ok), but let the players be themselves, and as long as they're not being a distraction to the team, who cares? If they get the job done, who cares? Hell, my back doctor looks like a guy you'd mistake as a Hell's Angel, and is the nicest guy you could meet. They talk about team chemistry (AA did, the Jays have over the past few years, and then they started to get good), you're kind of disrupting it if you're making people change who they are, in a sense. Maybe it's just me.

 

OK, I'm shutting up now. I've posted enough for a week with this post.

 

Well said

[Carlos Danger]

Typical of this board and the elitist clique, we know it all types like King to spam the s*** out of a thread and not even have the mental fortitude to make an intelligent response. Or, if you don't give a s*** about the topic, stay out of it or change the channel.

 

I can tell who the winners in real life on this board are, and I can tell those who know what it takes to win are. Those are the ones NOT in the King clique... I might not be in King's little clique, but no time for losers because We are the Champions and know what it takes to be a Champion!

 

Plus, I have no time for royalty in real life or on this board. I think we need another revolution and kick the King's ass like we did in 1783.

[Terminator]

Everyone is acting really strange today.

[King]

Typical of this board and the elitist clique, we know it all types like King to spam the s*** out of a thread and not even have the mental fortitude to make an intelligent response. Or, if you don't give a s*** about the topic, stay out of it or change the channel.

 

I can tell who the winners in real life on this board are, and I can tell those who know what it takes to win are. Those are the ones NOT in the King clique... I might not be in King's little clique, but no time for losers because We are the Champions and know what it takes to be a Champion!

 

Plus, I have no time for royalty in real life or on this board. I think we need another revolution and kick the King's ass like we did in 1783.

[Carlos Danger]

 

To be honest, that is always how I have pictured you look like... Thanks for confirming my online perception with real life.

[King]

To be honest, that is always how I have pictured you look like... Thanks for confirming my online perception with real life.

wow!

[King]

Shapiro is always talking about a sustainable team. That is corporate speak for continuously competitive..

 

Shapiro did that in Cleveland. But never won a WS.

 

The Blue Jays prior to Shapiro were always a team in WC conversation. Sometimes even picked to win the AL East.

 

The Raptors were a great regular season team and a playoff team year after year.. However, they always sputtered out in early playoff rounds.

 

I have said on here since 2015 that I don't believe that if Shapiro was still in Cleveland that they make the Miller trade that basically propelled them to a few out from winning the WC.

 

AA would not have been permitted to do his 2015 trade spree. That got us to within 1 game and some bad strike calls/bad luck of the WS.

 

AA pulled the trigger and went all in and we loved it, that is what baseball is supposed to feel like.

 

Masai pulled the trigger and he went all in and we WON! We WON and if felt awesome, you can never take that away.

 

I don't want a pre-Kawhi version of the Raptors for the Blue Jays.. A plus or .500 team that is competitive year in a year out but never makes it to the promised land = WS Championship

 

I truly believe you will never see a AA July 2015 trades line move with this FO, nor a Masai 2018 off season move like going all in sacrificing long term.

 

I was listening to some Toronto radio host on SN 590 pre-Warriors series.. He said we should all be happy to be in the finals, what ever happens it has been a great season.

 

********! You should never be just happy to be in the Finals, or playoffs, or that you had a good season. You objective and your mission should always be to win it all! Anything but a Championship should be considered failure and you need to go back to the drawing board and see how you can get over the hump.

 

I do not believe that Shapiro based on his history and comments will ever have the balls to sacrifice the future or sustainability for a WS win. While we might be a good team that is in the playoff hunt, every year, he will not approve/have the balls to do what is needed to put us over the top if need be....

 

Basically I think we have years of competitive teams to look forward to, but not a WS winner under Shapiro..

 

- Sage wisdom by Charlie Danger

 

Can someone post this in the dumb things BJMB members say thread?

 

Thanks in advance

[BigBounceyBlueBalls]

THIS PLACE IS A ANIMAL HOUSE ...

 

ONCE YOUR IN , YOU NEVER GET OUT !!!

 

CRACKERS the lot of YA !!! Lol

[Carlos Danger]

Can someone post this in the dumb things BJMB members say thread?

 

Thanks in advance

 

Again, if it is so dumb, make an intelligent response and point out why? So far I have seen responses befitting a 12 yr old ( A mature one at that).

 

Obviously you can't make an intelligent response, or fall back on not worth my time (cop out for I can't).

 

Spam and childish posts.. You are a real Hall of Famer buddy.. You are like the DeMar DeRozan of this board, lots of accolades from the casual masses, but a known as a choker when it counts by those in the know.

 

Have a great day DeMar!

[BTS]

This is just my personal feeling/speculation(s), but I have a feeling (not quite 50-50% but close to it), that the Jays wind up bringing back either one of Joey Bats AND/or EE.

I think JB might have a hit to his pride, like many have said, since he might have to take less money, and less years on the deal. He might have to play LF, with either Zeek or someone else manning RF that the Jays acquire, and occasionally playing 1B and DH.

With EE, I could see them possibly bringing him back on a lesser contract than he expected to get, maybe even a one year deal, or a 3 year deal, with an opt out/player options for the next two (a la what the Mets had with Cespedes), and he can start at 1B, with Pearce moving to LF. It wouldn't be ideal defensively, but it gives the Jays more power.

 

I could see both coming back on less AAV deals, or backloaded deals, or short term (1-3) simply because, if someone wanted them, they'd be signed by now. You look at the moves made by other teams to add power bats, some even older than both of them, giving up some nice prospects, and they're sitting in the cold right now.

 

EE would be a bit more difficult with Morales at DH full time, but as i said, EE could man 1B. Wouldn't be ideal, but he showed he could handle it at least decently. Pearce has the ability to play LF. It might not be the best defense, but if EE wants to come back, can't find a place elsewhere, and the Jays can say "hey, we offered you a solid deal, you said no, you didn't find anything, you want to come back, the door is still cracked open, but it'll be at a one year deal worth this amount which is lower than you expected, or a short term deal, with an opt out, or less money, but you'll have a place to play, and on a contending team, we'll make it work" then maybe he comes back.

 

Similar with JB. If someone wanted him, he'd be signed by now. Maybe he doesn't get the AAV he wants, but maybe he gets the number of years he wants, or maybe a higher AAV on a short term deal.

 

I see JB more likely to come back simply because they can, worse case, stick him in LF, or work him out at 1B during ST, and Pearce in LF, and see how that goes. If not for anything just to see how it works out in case they want to try it during the season, but I see JB in LF, Pearce/Smoak manning 1B, unless they find a taker for Smoak. But then we lose a switch hitter (mostly a LHH, but he seems all or nothing. Could be from lack of ABs or he just is all or nothing).

 

I'm sure a lot of teams aren't jumping on these two, because, 1) the draft pick tied to them, 2) they might be asking for too much. I can see EE declining the rumoured Jays' offer of 4/$80 to test the market and because he's earned the FA rights, but the Jays weren't going to sit around waiting. One, or both might come back if the Jays say hey, here's the deal. Come back on one year deals, or 2-3 year deals on lesser AAV or backloaded deals (not a fan of those), and you get to play for a contender, and if you come back for one year, two years, you hit the market next year and might get a better chance especially with the changes to the CBA and the QO system, or you opt out and try your luck, and hopefully by then, the Jays have internal options, or can target other guys on the FA market next season.

 

Maybe they even try to bring back Saunders. It's odd no one has made a play on him yet. I know there's concerns about his knee, how he seemed to just disappear offensively in the 2nd half, but he made less than $3M, you'd think he could be had for next to nothing. Even doubling his contract from last year is a cheap gamble considering what some guys are getting this year who are much older (yes, I know, better histories of being consistent too).

 

I'm sure the Jays have back up plans and have targeted players either via free agency and/or trade, and the meetings are typically where sometimes ground work is just laid out. With what they need (1-2 corner OF, back up catcher, even though they've added AJ back to the roster and signed Mike Ohlman to a minor's contract who seems like he could compete for a back up spot as catcher, and really need some BP arms to compete with the revamped teams in the AL East, especially since we saw last season, if not the past 2-3, how early on the pen collapsing costed the team much needed games that they couldn't make up later on) they're certainly not done. I'ts not even mid December and many players aren't really concerned with what's going on (again just my opinion) especially with the holidays coming up, so there might be a flurry of moves made before the holidays, shortly after, plus there's January where you see guys who haven't found homes yet, sign for less.

 

To recap, I could actually see them bringing back both EE and JB on lesser contracts, and possibly (if not definitely) moving Smoak (really a cheap contract that someone will likely take on without the Jays having to pay anything on it, maybe a little bit if they're getting a solid BP arm, or three team trade might make it so they can just dump his contract without paying), and utilizing Pearce's ability to play LF to help out with accommodating one or both of them. But as I said it might require opt out clauses/player options, with back loaded contracts to get them back, and to address the bullpen. I really see it more likely that JB could return simply because he's more of a fit. We could use an OF. He fits. He's a fan favourite here (for the most part), and is kind of sitting waiting for a suitor. As long as what he's paid this year (which is why I stress maybe a 1-2-3 year deal, with opt out or back loaded) won't cripple the team's chances of trying to help with the 'pen, then I can see him back. EE would be a lot tougher since we have a full time DH, a guy who's a fairly solid 1B in Pearce, though he could play LF if needed, but might not be best defensively, and a redundant player with having Smoak sitting on the bench, wasting money.

 

Personally, I like both players, I like EE a bit more, but since he turned down the deal, the Jays had to act, rather than be left out in the cold, so I wouldn't mind if they went elsewhere and the Jays wind up with a pair of draft picks to help add some players to the farm. I also wouldn't mind seeing one, or even both back, providing it doesn't hurt the team's financial needs to try and bring in BP help. Both seems highly unlikely. One doesn't seem likely. I could be wrong, but their markets seem dry. They both seem to like Toronto. The FO could have just said we're moving on since we only have $X to spend and need some more help in the pen, especially since Cecil is gone, Loup hasn't been the same guy over the past two season that he was during the first few seasons. We have some rookies who look promising, but if you're going to contend you don't want to count on them. They could be like Biagini last year and surprise everyone, but you don't want to count on that, because if they falter, who are you going to? Biagini is going to prepare as a starter (or so it's said, but likely will be in the pen, to help Grilli in that set up role, unless a starter goes down, and they stick him in the rotation), our recent Rule 5 pick could be a nice pick up, but I'm not holding my breath.

 

If either return, it's going to have to be at a discount, or back loaded deal, or opt out/play option deal, that might be a blow to their egos, or might upset the union, since if either come back for less than the QO, or what some other guys were getting, the union might not be happy, but screw them.

 

Ideally, I'd like to see the Jays add some starter depth. Even though the Jays barely, but still had a good staff since they were a few points better than the team that beat them and went to the World Series, lead the league in ERA, I still think they need some starters to help out just in case.

 

So, excuse my long post, and getting off topic, since this is a JB thread, I can actually see him returning, mostly since his age, his poor season, people like him here, he seemed to like being here, (here means Toronto, I don't actually live there), but it would have to be at a lesser price than he is/was expecting, probably lower than the QO, maybe a 2-3 year deal, that is back loaded, which I don't like, especially for an aging player. Granted his injuries (slamming into the wall and hurting his toe, and them keeping him out because they didn't want to rush him back is understandable, and it was a more "freak accident" since it could happen to a 23 year old blue chip prospect, and his other injury, correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't it a knee/leg injury from getting caught in the seem of the turf? That could happen to anyone) played a role in his production, or lack thereof, but when healthy it looked like he was either trying too hard, or just never found his grove. He's defense has been poor, so maybe the swap to LF, or maybe starting games at 1B, and seeing how Pearce can play in LF during spring, might help out, or maybe just tell him, we want you to bite the bullet, swallow your pride and play LF, because your defense is fallen, and look for a better option for RF.

 

I think he's still not signed because of the draft pick, maybe his asking price, the talk of his ego/attitude since he seems to be a guy people either love or hate, and sometimes he spoke his mind more than he should have, or thought before speaking, and when OF are getting a king's ransom in trades, while he just sits waiting, something is up there. Maybe he's being stubborn, or his agent(s) are just trying to get him that one last deal since he's 36, and likely won't get much, coming off his worse season, or maybe multiple factors, or trying to wait and see what teams get desperate at the end of the offseason and will part with the pick to sign him. I wouldn't mind him back if he was moved to LF, maybe played 1B at times, DHed other games, and he didn't cost that much this year, which keeps the team from addressing other needs.

 

All that being said, as long as the Jays do what makes them a better team, gives them depth, gives them the ability to score runs, prevent runs, compete, and maybe make it to the World Series this year, obviously need some depth too since some guys are out of options, and might get lost on waivers, or are borderline replacement guys who were claimed, I'll be happy. If JB does come back, and can give at least one more year of solid production, and doesn't have a bad season, then I'll be happy. If he goes elsewhere, the Jays get a pick for him, and they fill the spot with someone with production, defense, and athleticism, I'll be happy. Whatever makes the team better, can score runs, prevent them, get back to the post season, and this time win the ALCS, then I'll be very happy. The other teams improved. It doesn't mean the Jays have to go nuts to compete blow for blow in acquisitions, since we have some good pitching, at least starters, some offense, defense, but we could use some depth, bullpen help, starter depth, and hopefully not have to rely on the homer run as often.

 

And since I'm making a huge post, and touching on many subjects, just a quick comment on the Yankees' code about facial hair, hair length, dress codes, and other things. I know many clubs have certain rules. I think MLB requires players to wear suits while traveling (from one city to another, but not wear them all the time, again, if I'm wrong, someone correct me), but the rules the Yankees have, even though they've had a long history, just seem a bit overboard to me. And no, it's not just because I'm a guy with long hair and a goatee that would have to be cut and shaved if I were to play for them. It just seems like arbitrary rules to have. I can see if someone signed as a FA, then you know what you're getting into. It's like taking any job and they say here's the dress code and how you must look. That is a little more understandable to me. But what about the guys who get traded, claimed on waivers, who don't have a say? They're supposed to give up what they consider their identity? I get you're earning more money than most people will see in many life times, and it's probably a small price to pay, and your employer can kind of dictate what you can and can't look like, (MLB with the "Brandon League Rule about having to wear sleeves or other covers on your arms if you have tattoos that might distract hitters, I'd think, and this is also coming from playing baseball for years, that unless the ink looks like a ball, you're not really going to be too distracted, but safety, ok), but let the players be themselves, and as long as they're not being a distraction to the team, who cares? If they get the job done, who cares? Hell, my back doctor looks like a guy you'd mistake as a Hell's Angel, and is the nicest guy you could meet. They talk about team chemistry (AA did, the Jays have over the past few years, and then they started to get good), you're kind of disrupting it if you're making people change who they are, in a sense. Maybe it's just me.

 

OK, I'm shutting up now. I've posted enough for a week with this post.

 

Just read again. Great points.

[BTS]

This is just my personal feeling/speculation(s), but I have a feeling (not quite 50-50% but close to it), that the Jays wind up bringing back either one of Joey Bats AND/or EE.

I think JB might have a hit to his pride, like many have said, since he might have to take less money, and less years on the deal. He might have to play LF, with either Zeek or someone else manning RF that the Jays acquire, and occasionally playing 1B and DH.

With EE, I could see them possibly bringing him back on a lesser contract than he expected to get, maybe even a one year deal, or a 3 year deal, with an opt out/player options for the next two (a la what the Mets had with Cespedes), and he can start at 1B, with Pearce moving to LF. It wouldn't be ideal defensively, but it gives the Jays more power.

 

I could see both coming back on less AAV deals, or backloaded deals, or short term (1-3) simply because, if someone wanted them, they'd be signed by now. You look at the moves made by other teams to add power bats, some even older than both of them, giving up some nice prospects, and they're sitting in the cold right now.

 

EE would be a bit more difficult with Morales at DH full time, but as i said, EE could man 1B. Wouldn't be ideal, but he showed he could handle it at least decently. Pearce has the ability to play LF. It might not be the best defense, but if EE wants to come back, can't find a place elsewhere, and the Jays can say "hey, we offered you a solid deal, you said no, you didn't find anything, you want to come back, the door is still cracked open, but it'll be at a one year deal worth this amount which is lower than you expected, or a short term deal, with an opt out, or less money, but you'll have a place to play, and on a contending team, we'll make it work" then maybe he comes back.

 

Similar with JB. If someone wanted him, he'd be signed by now. Maybe he doesn't get the AAV he wants, but maybe he gets the number of years he wants, or maybe a higher AAV on a short term deal.

 

I see JB more likely to come back simply because they can, worse case, stick him in LF, or work him out at 1B during ST, and Pearce in LF, and see how that goes. If not for anything just to see how it works out in case they want to try it during the season, but I see JB in LF, Pearce/Smoak manning 1B, unless they find a taker for Smoak. But then we lose a switch hitter (mostly a LHH, but he seems all or nothing. Could be from lack of ABs or he just is all or nothing).

 

I'm sure a lot of teams aren't jumping on these two, because, 1) the draft pick tied to them, 2) they might be asking for too much. I can see EE declining the rumoured Jays' offer of 4/$80 to test the market and because he's earned the FA rights, but the Jays weren't going to sit around waiting. One, or both might come back if the Jays say hey, here's the deal. Come back on one year deals, or 2-3 year deals on lesser AAV or backloaded deals (not a fan of those), and you get to play for a contender, and if you come back for one year, two years, you hit the market next year and might get a better chance especially with the changes to the CBA and the QO system, or you opt out and try your luck, and hopefully by then, the Jays have internal options, or can target other guys on the FA market next season.

 

Maybe they even try to bring back Saunders. It's odd no one has made a play on him yet. I know there's concerns about his knee, how he seemed to just disappear offensively in the 2nd half, but he made less than $3M, you'd think he could be had for next to nothing. Even doubling his contract from last year is a cheap gamble considering what some guys are getting this year who are much older (yes, I know, better histories of being consistent too).

 

I'm sure the Jays have back up plans and have targeted players either via free agency and/or trade, and the meetings are typically where sometimes ground work is just laid out. With what they need (1-2 corner OF, back up catcher, even though they've added AJ back to the roster and signed Mike Ohlman to a minor's contract who seems like he could compete for a back up spot as catcher, and really need some BP arms to compete with the revamped teams in the AL East, especially since we saw last season, if not the past 2-3, how early on the pen collapsing costed the team much needed games that they couldn't make up later on) they're certainly not done. I'ts not even mid December and many players aren't really concerned with what's going on (again just my opinion) especially with the holidays coming up, so there might be a flurry of moves made before the holidays, shortly after, plus there's January where you see guys who haven't found homes yet, sign for less.

 

To recap, I could actually see them bringing back both EE and JB on lesser contracts, and possibly (if not definitely) moving Smoak (really a cheap contract that someone will likely take on without the Jays having to pay anything on it, maybe a little bit if they're getting a solid BP arm, or three team trade might make it so they can just dump his contract without paying), and utilizing Pearce's ability to play LF to help out with accommodating one or both of them. But as I said it might require opt out clauses/player options, with back loaded contracts to get them back, and to address the bullpen. I really see it more likely that JB could return simply because he's more of a fit. We could use an OF. He fits. He's a fan favourite here (for the most part), and is kind of sitting waiting for a suitor. As long as what he's paid this year (which is why I stress maybe a 1-2-3 year deal, with opt out or back loaded) won't cripple the team's chances of trying to help with the 'pen, then I can see him back. EE would be a lot tougher since we have a full time DH, a guy who's a fairly solid 1B in Pearce, though he could play LF if needed, but might not be best defensively, and a redundant player with having Smoak sitting on the bench, wasting money.

 

Personally, I like both players, I like EE a bit more, but since he turned down the deal, the Jays had to act, rather than be left out in the cold, so I wouldn't mind if they went elsewhere and the Jays wind up with a pair of draft picks to help add some players to the farm. I also wouldn't mind seeing one, or even both back, providing it doesn't hurt the team's financial needs to try and bring in BP help. Both seems highly unlikely. One doesn't seem likely. I could be wrong, but their markets seem dry. They both seem to like Toronto. The FO could have just said we're moving on since we only have $X to spend and need some more help in the pen, especially since Cecil is gone, Loup hasn't been the same guy over the past two season that he was during the first few seasons. We have some rookies who look promising, but if you're going to contend you don't want to count on them. They could be like Biagini last year and surprise everyone, but you don't want to count on that, because if they falter, who are you going to? Biagini is going to prepare as a starter (or so it's said, but likely will be in the pen, to help Grilli in that set up role, unless a starter goes down, and they stick him in the rotation), our recent Rule 5 pick could be a nice pick up, but I'm not holding my breath.

 

If either return, it's going to have to be at a discount, or back loaded deal, or opt out/play option deal, that might be a blow to their egos, or might upset the union, since if either come back for less than the QO, or what some other guys were getting, the union might not be happy, but screw them.

 

Ideally, I'd like to see the Jays add some starter depth. Even though the Jays barely, but still had a good staff since they were a few points better than the team that beat them and went to the World Series, lead the league in ERA, I still think they need some starters to help out just in case.

 

So, excuse my long post, and getting off topic, since this is a JB thread, I can actually see him returning, mostly since his age, his poor season, people like him here, he seemed to like being here, (here means Toronto, I don't actually live there), but it would have to be at a lesser price than he is/was expecting, probably lower than the QO, maybe a 2-3 year deal, that is back loaded, which I don't like, especially for an aging player. Granted his injuries (slamming into the wall and hurting his toe, and them keeping him out because they didn't want to rush him back is understandable, and it was a more "freak accident" since it could happen to a 23 year old blue chip prospect, and his other injury, correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't it a knee/leg injury from getting caught in the seem of the turf? That could happen to anyone) played a role in his production, or lack thereof, but when healthy it looked like he was either trying too hard, or just never found his grove. He's defense has been poor, so maybe the swap to LF, or maybe starting games at 1B, and seeing how Pearce can play in LF during spring, might help out, or maybe just tell him, we want you to bite the bullet, swallow your pride and play LF, because your defense is fallen, and look for a better option for RF.

 

I think he's still not signed because of the draft pick, maybe his asking price, the talk of his ego/attitude since he seems to be a guy people either love or hate, and sometimes he spoke his mind more than he should have, or thought before speaking, and when OF are getting a king's ransom in trades, while he just sits waiting, something is up there. Maybe he's being stubborn, or his agent(s) are just trying to get him that one last deal since he's 36, and likely won't get much, coming off his worse season, or maybe multiple factors, or trying to wait and see what teams get desperate at the end of the offseason and will part with the pick to sign him. I wouldn't mind him back if he was moved to LF, maybe played 1B at times, DHed other games, and he didn't cost that much this year, which keeps the team from addressing other needs.

 

All that being said, as long as the Jays do what makes them a better team, gives them depth, gives them the ability to score runs, prevent runs, compete, and maybe make it to the World Series this year, obviously need some depth too since some guys are out of options, and might get lost on waivers, or are borderline replacement guys who were claimed, I'll be happy. If JB does come back, and can give at least one more year of solid production, and doesn't have a bad season, then I'll be happy. If he goes elsewhere, the Jays get a pick for him, and they fill the spot with someone with production, defense, and athleticism, I'll be happy. Whatever makes the team better, can score runs, prevent them, get back to the post season, and this time win the ALCS, then I'll be very happy. The other teams improved. It doesn't mean the Jays have to go nuts to compete blow for blow in acquisitions, since we have some good pitching, at least starters, some offense, defense, but we could use some depth, bullpen help, starter depth, and hopefully not have to rely on the homer run as often.

 

And since I'm making a huge post, and touching on many subjects, just a quick comment on the Yankees' code about facial hair, hair length, dress codes, and other things. I know many clubs have certain rules. I think MLB requires players to wear suits while traveling (from one city to another, but not wear them all the time, again, if I'm wrong, someone correct me), but the rules the Yankees have, even though they've had a long history, just seem a bit overboard to me. And no, it's not just because I'm a guy with long hair and a goatee that would have to be cut and shaved if I were to play for them. It just seems like arbitrary rules to have. I can see if someone signed as a FA, then you know what you're getting into. It's like taking any job and they say here's the dress code and how you must look. That is a little more understandable to me. But what about the guys who get traded, claimed on waivers, who don't have a say? They're supposed to give up what they consider their identity? I get you're earning more money than most people will see in many life times, and it's probably a small price to pay, and your employer can kind of dictate what you can and can't look like, (MLB with the "Brandon League Rule about having to wear sleeves or other covers on your arms if you have tattoos that might distract hitters, I'd think, and this is also coming from playing baseball for years, that unless the ink looks like a ball, you're not really going to be too distracted, but safety, ok), but let the players be themselves, and as long as they're not being a distraction to the team, who cares? If they get the job done, who cares? Hell, my back doctor looks like a guy you'd mistake as a Hell's Angel, and is the nicest guy you could meet. They talk about team chemistry (AA did, the Jays have over the past few years, and then they started to get good), you're kind of disrupting it if you're making people change who they are, in a sense. Maybe it's just me.

 

OK, I'm shutting up now. I've posted enough for a week with this post.

 

Just really great points.

[Carlos Danger]

Way to set the example MOD....

[King]

This is just my personal feeling/speculation(s), but I have a feeling (not quite 50-50% but close to it), that the Jays wind up bringing back either one of Joey Bats AND/or EE.

I think JB might have a hit to his pride, like many have said, since he might have to take less money, and less years on the deal. He might have to play LF, with either Zeek or someone else manning RF that the Jays acquire, and occasionally playing 1B and DH.

With EE, I could see them possibly bringing him back on a lesser contract than he expected to get, maybe even a one year deal, or a 3 year deal, with an opt out/player options for the next two (a la what the Mets had with Cespedes), and he can start at 1B, with Pearce moving to LF. It wouldn't be ideal defensively, but it gives the Jays more power.

 

I could see both coming back on less AAV deals, or backloaded deals, or short term (1-3) simply because, if someone wanted them, they'd be signed by now. You look at the moves made by other teams to add power bats, some even older than both of them, giving up some nice prospects, and they're sitting in the cold right now.

 

EE would be a bit more difficult with Morales at DH full time, but as i said, EE could man 1B. Wouldn't be ideal, but he showed he could handle it at least decently. Pearce has the ability to play LF. It might not be the best defense, but if EE wants to come back, can't find a place elsewhere, and the Jays can say "hey, we offered you a solid deal, you said no, you didn't find anything, you want to come back, the door is still cracked open, but it'll be at a one year deal worth this amount which is lower than you expected, or a short term deal, with an opt out, or less money, but you'll have a place to play, and on a contending team, we'll make it work" then maybe he comes back.

 

Similar with JB. If someone wanted him, he'd be signed by now. Maybe he doesn't get the AAV he wants, but maybe he gets the number of years he wants, or maybe a higher AAV on a short term deal.

 

I see JB more likely to come back simply because they can, worse case, stick him in LF, or work him out at 1B during ST, and Pearce in LF, and see how that goes. If not for anything just to see how it works out in case they want to try it during the season, but I see JB in LF, Pearce/Smoak manning 1B, unless they find a taker for Smoak. But then we lose a switch hitter (mostly a LHH, but he seems all or nothing. Could be from lack of ABs or he just is all or nothing).

 

I'm sure a lot of teams aren't jumping on these two, because, 1) the draft pick tied to them, 2) they might be asking for too much. I can see EE declining the rumoured Jays' offer of 4/$80 to test the market and because he's earned the FA rights, but the Jays weren't going to sit around waiting. One, or both might come back if the Jays say hey, here's the deal. Come back on one year deals, or 2-3 year deals on lesser AAV or backloaded deals (not a fan of those), and you get to play for a contender, and if you come back for one year, two years, you hit the market next year and might get a better chance especially with the changes to the CBA and the QO system, or you opt out and try your luck, and hopefully by then, the Jays have internal options, or can target other guys on the FA market next season.

 

Maybe they even try to bring back Saunders. It's odd no one has made a play on him yet. I know there's concerns about his knee, how he seemed to just disappear offensively in the 2nd half, but he made less than $3M, you'd think he could be had for next to nothing. Even doubling his contract from last year is a cheap gamble considering what some guys are getting this year who are much older (yes, I know, better histories of being consistent too).

 

I'm sure the Jays have back up plans and have targeted players either via free agency and/or trade, and the meetings are typically where sometimes ground work is just laid out. With what they need (1-2 corner OF, back up catcher, even though they've added AJ back to the roster and signed Mike Ohlman to a minor's contract who seems like he could compete for a back up spot as catcher, and really need some BP arms to compete with the revamped teams in the AL East, especially since we saw last season, if not the past 2-3, how early on the pen collapsing costed the team much needed games that they couldn't make up later on) they're certainly not done. I'ts not even mid December and many players aren't really concerned with what's going on (again just my opinion) especially with the holidays coming up, so there might be a flurry of moves made before the holidays, shortly after, plus there's January where you see guys who haven't found homes yet, sign for less.

 

To recap, I could actually see them bringing back both EE and JB on lesser contracts, and possibly (if not definitely) moving Smoak (really a cheap contract that someone will likely take on without the Jays having to pay anything on it, maybe a little bit if they're getting a solid BP arm, or three team trade might make it so they can just dump his contract without paying), and utilizing Pearce's ability to play LF to help out with accommodating one or both of them. But as I said it might require opt out clauses/player options, with back loaded contracts to get them back, and to address the bullpen. I really see it more likely that JB could return simply because he's more of a fit. We could use an OF. He fits. He's a fan favourite here (for the most part), and is kind of sitting waiting for a suitor. As long as what he's paid this year (which is why I stress maybe a 1-2-3 year deal, with opt out or back loaded) won't cripple the team's chances of trying to help with the 'pen, then I can see him back. EE would be a lot tougher since we have a full time DH, a guy who's a fairly solid 1B in Pearce, though he could play LF if needed, but might not be best defensively, and a redundant player with having Smoak sitting on the bench, wasting money.

 

Personally, I like both players, I like EE a bit more, but since he turned down the deal, the Jays had to act, rather than be left out in the cold, so I wouldn't mind if they went elsewhere and the Jays wind up with a pair of draft picks to help add some players to the farm. I also wouldn't mind seeing one, or even both back, providing it doesn't hurt the team's financial needs to try and bring in BP help. Both seems highly unlikely. One doesn't seem likely. I could be wrong, but their markets seem dry. They both seem to like Toronto. The FO could have just said we're moving on since we only have $X to spend and need some more help in the pen, especially since Cecil is gone, Loup hasn't been the same guy over the past two season that he was during the first few seasons. We have some rookies who look promising, but if you're going to contend you don't want to count on them. They could be like Biagini last year and surprise everyone, but you don't want to count on that, because if they falter, who are you going to? Biagini is going to prepare as a starter (or so it's said, but likely will be in the pen, to help Grilli in that set up role, unless a starter goes down, and they stick him in the rotation), our recent Rule 5 pick could be a nice pick up, but I'm not holding my breath.

 

If either return, it's going to have to be at a discount, or back loaded deal, or opt out/play option deal, that might be a blow to their egos, or might upset the union, since if either come back for less than the QO, or what some other guys were getting, the union might not be happy, but screw them.

 

Ideally, I'd like to see the Jays add some starter depth. Even though the Jays barely, but still had a good staff since they were a few points better than the team that beat them and went to the World Series, lead the league in ERA, I still think they need some starters to help out just in case.

 

So, excuse my long post, and getting off topic, since this is a JB thread, I can actually see him returning, mostly since his age, his poor season, people like him here, he seemed to like being here, (here means Toronto, I don't actually live there), but it would have to be at a lesser price than he is/was expecting, probably lower than the QO, maybe a 2-3 year deal, that is back loaded, which I don't like, especially for an aging player. Granted his injuries (slamming into the wall and hurting his toe, and them keeping him out because they didn't want to rush him back is understandable, and it was a more "freak accident" since it could happen to a 23 year old blue chip prospect, and his other injury, correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't it a knee/leg injury from getting caught in the seem of the turf? That could happen to anyone) played a role in his production, or lack thereof, but when healthy it looked like he was either trying too hard, or just never found his grove. He's defense has been poor, so maybe the swap to LF, or maybe starting games at 1B, and seeing how Pearce can play in LF during spring, might help out, or maybe just tell him, we want you to bite the bullet, swallow your pride and play LF, because your defense is fallen, and look for a better option for RF.

 

I think he's still not signed because of the draft pick, maybe his asking price, the talk of his ego/attitude since he seems to be a guy people either love or hate, and sometimes he spoke his mind more than he should have, or thought before speaking, and when OF are getting a king's ransom in trades, while he just sits waiting, something is up there. Maybe he's being stubborn, or his agent(s) are just trying to get him that one last deal since he's 36, and likely won't get much, coming off his worse season, or maybe multiple factors, or trying to wait and see what teams get desperate at the end of the offseason and will part with the pick to sign him. I wouldn't mind him back if he was moved to LF, maybe played 1B at times, DHed other games, and he didn't cost that much this year, which keeps the team from addressing other needs.

 

All that being said, as long as the Jays do what makes them a better team, gives them depth, gives them the ability to score runs, prevent runs, compete, and maybe make it to the World Series this year, obviously need some depth too since some guys are out of options, and might get lost on waivers, or are borderline replacement guys who were claimed, I'll be happy. If JB does come back, and can give at least one more year of solid production, and doesn't have a bad season, then I'll be happy. If he goes elsewhere, the Jays get a pick for him, and they fill the spot with someone with production, defense, and athleticism, I'll be happy. Whatever makes the team better, can score runs, prevent them, get back to the post season, and this time win the ALCS, then I'll be very happy. The other teams improved. It doesn't mean the Jays have to go nuts to compete blow for blow in acquisitions, since we have some good pitching, at least starters, some offense, defense, but we could use some depth, bullpen help, starter depth, and hopefully not have to rely on the homer run as often.

 

And since I'm making a huge post, and touching on many subjects, just a quick comment on the Yankees' code about facial hair, hair length, dress codes, and other things. I know many clubs have certain rules. I think MLB requires players to wear suits while traveling (from one city to another, but not wear them all the time, again, if I'm wrong, someone correct me), but the rules the Yankees have, even though they've had a long history, just seem a bit overboard to me. And no, it's not just because I'm a guy with long hair and a goatee that would have to be cut and shaved if I were to play for them. It just seems like arbitrary rules to have. I can see if someone signed as a FA, then you know what you're getting into. It's like taking any job and they say here's the dress code and how you must look. That is a little more understandable to me. But what about the guys who get traded, claimed on waivers, who don't have a say? They're supposed to give up what they consider their identity? I get you're earning more money than most people will see in many life times, and it's probably a small price to pay, and your employer can kind of dictate what you can and can't look like, (MLB with the "Brandon League Rule about having to wear sleeves or other covers on your arms if you have tattoos that might distract hitters, I'd think, and this is also coming from playing baseball for years, that unless the ink looks like a ball, you're not really going to be too distracted, but safety, ok), but let the players be themselves, and as long as they're not being a distraction to the team, who cares? If they get the job done, who cares? Hell, my back doctor looks like a guy you'd mistake as a Hell's Angel, and is the nicest guy you could meet. They talk about team chemistry (AA did, the Jays have over the past few years, and then they started to get good), you're kind of disrupting it if you're making people change who they are, in a sense. Maybe it's just me.

 

OK, I'm shutting up now. I've posted enough for a week with this post.

 

Just really great points.

Thanks!

[BigBounceyBlueBalls]

Again, if it is so dumb, make an intelligent response and point out why? So far I have seen responses befitting a 12 yr old ( A mature one at that).

 

Obviously you can't make an intelligent response, or fall back on not worth my time (cop out for I can't).

 

Spam and childish posts.. You are a real Hall of Famer buddy.. You are like the DeMar DeRozan of this board, lots of accolades from the casual masses, but a known as a choker when it counts by those in the know.

 

Have a great day DeMar!

 

Basketball Sucks , damn you Raptors and f*** ya Toronto !!! Lol

 

Dear Toronto you are not the Centre of Canada or the world , and America does not like you either !

 

Get over yourself !!!

 

Band wagon fans the lot of you, f*** more basketball know it alls now then jays know it alls .... Good Grief your Detroit is showing !

Lol

[Carlos Danger]

Basketball Sucks , damn you Raptors and f*** ya Toronto !!! Lol

 

Dear Toronto you are not the Centre of Canada or the world , and America does not like you either !

 

Get over yourself !!!

 

Band wagon fans the lot of you, f*** more basketball know it alls now then jays know it alls .... Good Grief your Detroit is showing !

Lol

 

Not quite sure what I am liking and why, but I am going to like this post.. If only because I too am a fan of Big Bouncy Balls...

[BigBounceyBlueBalls]

Way to set the example MOD....

 

The Bar is LOW with him , not much of a Reach even with T-Rex arms !!!

 

More Surprising is you though he would provide more or do better then he did !!! Lol

[Boxcar]

This is just my personal feeling/speculation(s), but I have a feeling (not quite 50-50% but close to it), that the Jays wind up bringing back either one of Joey Bats AND/or EE.

I think JB might have a hit to his pride, like many have said, since he might have to take less money, and less years on the deal. He might have to play LF, with either Zeek or someone else manning RF that the Jays acquire, and occasionally playing 1B and DH.

With EE, I could see them possibly bringing him back on a lesser contract than he expected to get, maybe even a one year deal, or a 3 year deal, with an opt out/player options for the next two (a la what the Mets had with Cespedes), and he can start at 1B, with Pearce moving to LF. It wouldn't be ideal defensively, but it gives the Jays more power.

 

I could see both coming back on less AAV deals, or backloaded deals, or short term (1-3) simply because, if someone wanted them, they'd be signed by now. You look at the moves made by other teams to add power bats, some even older than both of them, giving up some nice prospects, and they're sitting in the cold right now.

 

EE would be a bit more difficult with Morales at DH full time, but as i said, EE could man 1B. Wouldn't be ideal, but he showed he could handle it at least decently. Pearce has the ability to play LF. It might not be the best defense, but if EE wants to come back, can't find a place elsewhere, and the Jays can say "hey, we offered you a solid deal, you said no, you didn't find anything, you want to come back, the door is still cracked open, but it'll be at a one year deal worth this amount which is lower than you expected, or a short term deal, with an opt out, or less money, but you'll have a place to play, and on a contending team, we'll make it work" then maybe he comes back.

 

Similar with JB. If someone wanted him, he'd be signed by now. Maybe he doesn't get the AAV he wants, but maybe he gets the number of years he wants, or maybe a higher AAV on a short term deal.

 

I see JB more likely to come back simply because they can, worse case, stick him in LF, or work him out at 1B during ST, and Pearce in LF, and see how that goes. If not for anything just to see how it works out in case they want to try it during the season, but I see JB in LF, Pearce/Smoak manning 1B, unless they find a taker for Smoak. But then we lose a switch hitter (mostly a LHH, but he seems all or nothing. Could be from lack of ABs or he just is all or nothing).

 

I'm sure a lot of teams aren't jumping on these two, because, 1) the draft pick tied to them, 2) they might be asking for too much. I can see EE declining the rumoured Jays' offer of 4/$80 to test the market and because he's earned the FA rights, but the Jays weren't going to sit around waiting. One, or both might come back if the Jays say hey, here's the deal. Come back on one year deals, or 2-3 year deals on lesser AAV or backloaded deals (not a fan of those), and you get to play for a contender, and if you come back for one year, two years, you hit the market next year and might get a better chance especially with the changes to the CBA and the QO system, or you opt out and try your luck, and hopefully by then, the Jays have internal options, or can target other guys on the FA market next season.

 

Maybe they even try to bring back Saunders. It's odd no one has made a play on him yet. I know there's concerns about his knee, how he seemed to just disappear offensively in the 2nd half, but he made less than $3M, you'd think he could be had for next to nothing. Even doubling his contract from last year is a cheap gamble considering what some guys are getting this year who are much older (yes, I know, better histories of being consistent too).

 

I'm sure the Jays have back up plans and have targeted players either via free agency and/or trade, and the meetings are typically where sometimes ground work is just laid out. With what they need (1-2 corner OF, back up catcher, even though they've added AJ back to the roster and signed Mike Ohlman to a minor's contract who seems like he could compete for a back up spot as catcher, and really need some BP arms to compete with the revamped teams in the AL East, especially since we saw last season, if not the past 2-3, how early on the pen collapsing costed the team much needed games that they couldn't make up later on) they're certainly not done. I'ts not even mid December and many players aren't really concerned with what's going on (again just my opinion) especially with the holidays coming up, so there might be a flurry of moves made before the holidays, shortly after, plus there's January where you see guys who haven't found homes yet, sign for less.

 

To recap, I could actually see them bringing back both EE and JB on lesser contracts, and possibly (if not definitely) moving Smoak (really a cheap contract that someone will likely take on without the Jays having to pay anything on it, maybe a little bit if they're getting a solid BP arm, or three team trade might make it so they can just dump his contract without paying), and utilizing Pearce's ability to play LF to help out with accommodating one or both of them. But as I said it might require opt out clauses/player options, with back loaded contracts to get them back, and to address the bullpen. I really see it more likely that JB could return simply because he's more of a fit. We could use an OF. He fits. He's a fan favourite here (for the most part), and is kind of sitting waiting for a suitor. As long as what he's paid this year (which is why I stress maybe a 1-2-3 year deal, with opt out or back loaded) won't cripple the team's chances of trying to help with the 'pen, then I can see him back. EE would be a lot tougher since we have a full time DH, a guy who's a fairly solid 1B in Pearce, though he could play LF if needed, but might not be best defensively, and a redundant player with having Smoak sitting on the bench, wasting money.

 

Personally, I like both players, I like EE a bit more, but since he turned down the deal, the Jays had to act, rather than be left out in the cold, so I wouldn't mind if they went elsewhere and the Jays wind up with a pair of draft picks to help add some players to the farm. I also wouldn't mind seeing one, or even both back, providing it doesn't hurt the team's financial needs to try and bring in BP help. Both seems highly unlikely. One doesn't seem likely. I could be wrong, but their markets seem dry. They both seem to like Toronto. The FO could have just said we're moving on since we only have $X to spend and need some more help in the pen, especially since Cecil is gone, Loup hasn't been the same guy over the past two season that he was during the first few seasons. We have some rookies who look promising, but if you're going to contend you don't want to count on them. They could be like Biagini last year and surprise everyone, but you don't want to count on that, because if they falter, who are you going to? Biagini is going to prepare as a starter (or so it's said, but likely will be in the pen, to help Grilli in that set up role, unless a starter goes down, and they stick him in the rotation), our recent Rule 5 pick could be a nice pick up, but I'm not holding my breath.

 

If either return, it's going to have to be at a discount, or back loaded deal, or opt out/play option deal, that might be a blow to their egos, or might upset the union, since if either come back for less than the QO, or what some other guys were getting, the union might not be happy, but screw them.

 

Ideally, I'd like to see the Jays add some starter depth. Even though the Jays barely, but still had a good staff since they were a few points better than the team that beat them and went to the World Series, lead the league in ERA, I still think they need some starters to help out just in case.

 

So, excuse my long post, and getting off topic, since this is a JB thread, I can actually see him returning, mostly since his age, his poor season, people like him here, he seemed to like being here, (here means Toronto, I don't actually live there), but it would have to be at a lesser price than he is/was expecting, probably lower than the QO, maybe a 2-3 year deal, that is back loaded, which I don't like, especially for an aging player. Granted his injuries (slamming into the wall and hurting his toe, and them keeping him out because they didn't want to rush him back is understandable, and it was a more "freak accident" since it could happen to a 23 year old blue chip prospect, and his other injury, correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't it a knee/leg injury from getting caught in the seem of the turf? That could happen to anyone) played a role in his production, or lack thereof, but when healthy it looked like he was either trying too hard, or just never found his grove. He's defense has been poor, so maybe the swap to LF, or maybe starting games at 1B, and seeing how Pearce can play in LF during spring, might help out, or maybe just tell him, we want you to bite the bullet, swallow your pride and play LF, because your defense is fallen, and look for a better option for RF.

 

I think he's still not signed because of the draft pick, maybe his asking price, the talk of his ego/attitude since he seems to be a guy people either love or hate, and sometimes he spoke his mind more than he should have, or thought before speaking, and when OF are getting a king's ransom in trades, while he just sits waiting, something is up there. Maybe he's being stubborn, or his agent(s) are just trying to get him that one last deal since he's 36, and likely won't get much, coming off his worse season, or maybe multiple factors, or trying to wait and see what teams get desperate at the end of the offseason and will part with the pick to sign him. I wouldn't mind him back if he was moved to LF, maybe played 1B at times, DHed other games, and he didn't cost that much this year, which keeps the team from addressing other needs.

 

All that being said, as long as the Jays do what makes them a better team, gives them depth, gives them the ability to score runs, prevent runs, compete, and maybe make it to the World Series this year, obviously need some depth too since some guys are out of options, and might get lost on waivers, or are borderline replacement guys who were claimed, I'll be happy. If JB does come back, and can give at least one more year of solid production, and doesn't have a bad season, then I'll be happy. If he goes elsewhere, the Jays get a pick for him, and they fill the spot with someone with production, defense, and athleticism, I'll be happy. Whatever makes the team better, can score runs, prevent them, get back to the post season, and this time win the ALCS, then I'll be very happy. The other teams improved. It doesn't mean the Jays have to go nuts to compete blow for blow in acquisitions, since we have some good pitching, at least starters, some offense, defense, but we could use some depth, bullpen help, starter depth, and hopefully not have to rely on the homer run as often.

 

And since I'm making a huge post, and touching on many subjects, just a quick comment on the Yankees' code about facial hair, hair length, dress codes, and other things. I know many clubs have certain rules. I think MLB requires players to wear suits while traveling (from one city to another, but not wear them all the time, again, if I'm wrong, someone correct me), but the rules the Yankees have, even though they've had a long history, just seem a bit overboard to me. And no, it's not just because I'm a guy with long hair and a goatee that would have to be cut and shaved if I were to play for them. It just seems like arbitrary rules to have. I can see if someone signed as a FA, then you know what you're getting into. It's like taking any job and they say here's the dress code and how you must look. That is a little more understandable to me. But what about the guys who get traded, claimed on waivers, who don't have a say? They're supposed to give up what they consider their identity? I get you're earning more money than most people will see in many life times, and it's probably a small price to pay, and your employer can kind of dictate what you can and can't look like, (MLB with the "Brandon League Rule about having to wear sleeves or other covers on your arms if you have tattoos that might distract hitters, I'd think, and this is also coming from playing baseball for years, that unless the ink looks like a ball, you're not really going to be too distracted, but safety, ok), but let the players be themselves, and as long as they're not being a distraction to the team, who cares? If they get the job done, who cares? Hell, my back doctor looks like a guy you'd mistake as a Hell's Angel, and is the nicest guy you could meet. They talk about team chemistry (AA did, the Jays have over the past few years, and then they started to get good), you're kind of disrupting it if you're making people change who they are, in a sense. Maybe it's just me.

 

OK, I'm shutting up now. I've posted enough for a week with this post.

 

10/10 post, totally agree

[Spanky99]

Shapiro is always talking about a sustainable team. That is corporate speak for continuously competitive..

 

Shapiro did that in Cleveland. But never won a WS.

 

The Blue Jays prior to Shapiro were always a team in WC conversation. Sometimes even picked to win the AL East.

 

The Raptors were a great regular season team and a playoff team year after year.. However, they always sputtered out in early playoff rounds.

 

I have said on here since 2015 that I don't believe that if Shapiro was still in Cleveland that they make the Miller trade that basically propelled them to a few out from winning the WC.

 

AA would not have been permitted to do his 2015 trade spree. That got us to within 1 game and some bad strike calls/bad luck of the WS.

 

AA pulled the trigger and went all in and we loved it, that is what baseball is supposed to feel like.

 

Masai pulled the trigger and he went all in and we WON! We WON and if felt awesome, you can never take that away.

 

I don't want a pre-Kawhi version of the Raptors for the Blue Jays.. A plus or .500 team that is competitive year in a year out but never makes it to the promised land = WS Championship

 

I truly believe you will never see a AA July 2015 trades line move with this FO, nor a Masai 2018 off season move like going all in sacrificing long term.

 

I was listening to some Toronto radio host on SN 590 pre-Warriors series.. He said we should all be happy to be in the finals, what ever happens it has been a great season.

 

********! You should never be just happy to be in the Finals, or playoffs, or that you had a good season. You objective and your mission should always be to win it all! Anything but a Championship should be considered failure and you need to go back to the drawing board and see how you can get over the hump.

 

I do not believe that Shapiro based on his history and comments will ever have the balls to sacrifice the future or sustainability for a WS win. While we might be a good team that is in the playoff hunt, every year, he will not approve/have the balls to do what is needed to put us over the top if need be....

 

Basically I think we have years of competitive teams to look forward to, but not a WS winner under Shapiro..

 

- Sage wisdom by Charlie Danger

 

*shits pants*