The 1st Annual “Please dump Buck n Tabby” offseason plea to SN thread

[tercet]

Tried like 10 yrs ago, no luck..

 

Sportsnet Audience Feedback

 

Sep. 27, 2010 at 2:05 p.m.

 

Hello Chris,

 

Thanks for your email. We certainly appreciate the feedback. I have

forwarded your comments to the Executive Producer of Live Events.

 

Sincerely,

 

Jennifer Cram

Audience Relations

 

-----Original Message-----

Sent: Friday, September 24, 2010 2:13 PM

To: Sportsnet Audience Feedback

Subject: Questions or Comments on Reporters - Please get new Baseball

Commentator(s)

[tercet]

Buck almost ran me over though about 18 months ago when I used to work downtown, he drives an audi suv with a Florida license plate, and lives across from the Toronto Star building at 1 yonge.

[onwego]

I find it funny that most MLB teams are turning to younger leadership teams that implement and embrace new analysis and technologies....yet those same teams don't turn to younger broadcasters that are able to keep up with the ever changing game of baseball. Broadcasters that could educate the viewers in a captivating manner as to why some teams are using "openers" or why they don't bunt much anymore or why average starting pitchers are pulled after 6 inning even while tossing a shutout.

 

Instead of having fans question the moves of teams - educate them so they understand.

 

I’d like to think this matters but the game is more than ever simply throw and hit the living crap out of the ball with all your strength, like a caveman

[Spanky99]

lol

[Krylian]

I suspect you're right (as bizarre as that seems to me). I wonder why that is? Every time I hear Buck tell a story about the old days, it just sounds like an attempt to prove new age strategies wrong. Instead of embracing change, the old broadcasters sounds bitter that the game has changed and tell you about how it used to be in a tone that suggests it used to be "better" in the old days.

 

"Back in the old days, before there were shifts, that ground ball would have been an out."

 

"Imagine how good Sandy Koufax would have been if he had spin rates and all the advanced metrics on these batters? Yeah, but Sandy didn't need all that stuff. He relied on reading the batters and how they were reacting to his pitches. He as the best."

 

"Back in the old days, a starting pitcher didn't have a good bullpen to rely on. They had to navigate through the order 3, sometimes 4 times. It took a lot more skill. Those guys were savy back in the day. They used to setup the batter in the first so they could get him out in the 8th."

 

Who the f*** wants to listen to that s***? Seriously. All it does is put a negative spin on how baseball has evolved. It's terrible for the sport IMO.

 

None of those examples are wrong. The game has changed in those ways and many others. I put the onus on the viewer to take the information and disseminate it in a manner that shows the differences between then and now...not which is better, but in terms of how things are different, and make their own determination on what they think. It would be fascinating to see what Koufax could do today with the advanced information available. What if there were shifts in the 70s. Would Rod Carew had been a piece of s*** hitter? I think it could spur interesting 'what if' discussion. It doesn't always need to be bad.

[Brownie19]

None of those examples are wrong. The game has changed in those ways and many others. I put the onus on the viewer to take the information and disseminate it in a manner that shows the differences between then and now...not which is better, but in terms of how things are different, and make their own determination on what they think. It would be fascinating to see what Koufax could do today with the advanced information available. What if there were shifts in the 70s. Would Rod Carew had been a piece of s*** hitter? I think it could spur interesting 'what if' discussion. It doesn't always need to be bad.

 

I completely agree. Maybe it's just me, but I find Buck typically delivers it in a negative tone like "Koufax didn't need all that advanced information - he would use his eyes to read the batter" - suggesting that all the advanced stats are gobbledygook and great players didn't need all that nonsense.

 

Instead - he could say "Boy I wonder whether all the advanced statistics and defensive alignments would have made someone like Koufax even better. He has to rely on his eyes to read the batter and he developed an incredible feel for what adjustments the batters were making. There's no doubt that advanced stats and shifts have changed the game - the question I might pose is how much better could an all-time great like Koufax have been?

[Dick_Pole]

Tried like 10 yrs ago, no luck..

 

Sportsnet Audience Feedback

 

Sep. 27, 2010 at 2:05 p.m.

 

Hello Chris,

 

Thanks for your email. We certainly appreciate the feedback. I have

forwarded your comments to the Executive Producer of Live Events.

 

Sincerely,

 

Jennifer Cram

Audience Relations

 

-----Original Message-----

Sent: Friday, September 24, 2010 2:13 PM

To: Sportsnet Audience Feedback

Subject: Questions or Comments on Reporters - Please get new Baseball

Commentator(s)

 

s***. This guy tried. Ok boys, time to give up your broadcasting dreams except BigCecil and Terminator because they are clearly not hiring anyone under the age of 50. It has nothing to do with a personality disorder or anything, like digging up an eight year old email to copy and paste to...I dunno...prove a point?

 

Also the good old days about baseball are awesome. I totally want to hear all about Buck's perception of how Sandy Koufax pitched based on watching him a few times on a grainy black and white TV as a 12 year old 50+ years ago. That sounds like a very reliable anecdote. In this day and age players are force feeding us their personality on Twitter, like Stroman. Yuck!

[TheHurl]

I find it funny that most MLB teams are turning to younger leadership teams that implement and embrace new analysis and technologies....yet those same teams don't turn to younger broadcasters that are able to keep up with the ever changing game of baseball. Broadcasters that could educate the viewers in a captivating manner as to why some teams are using "openers" or why they don't bunt much anymore or why average starting pitchers are pulled after 6 inning even while tossing a shutout.

 

Instead of having fans question the moves of teams - educate them so they understand.

 

Broadcasts are about ratings not education. Old fans don't want to hear about advanced stats, and despite MLB's want/needs for it to be younger it's not about ratings 10 years fom now.

[Brownie19]

Broadcasts are about ratings not education. Old fans don't want to hear about advanced stats, and despite MLB's want/needs for it to be younger it's not about ratings 10 years fom now.

 

Hold "old" are old fans? I'm 37 - I'm old. I want to hear about advanced stats. To be honest, I don't know many 50+ year olds that watch baseball regularly.

[Spanky99]

Hold "old" are old fans? I'm 37 - I'm old. I want to hear about advanced stats. To be honest, I don't know many 50+ year olds that watch baseball regularly.

 

I've seen it integrated around the league, early in the year(WAR/wOBA/wRC+, etc... must've pissed a lot of viewers off, I rarely hear what they say(broadcasters), it's an art, lol. It'll take time. Google TangoTiger, he has results as recently as this WS. Nerds love stats, industry doesn't.

 

I remember OPS up on the jumbotron about 5 years ago, and near s*** myself, it's always going to be far behind. As others have said ball fans that want to learn and get into the math will, I did.

[Carlos Danger]

I find it funny that most MLB teams are turning to younger leadership teams that implement and embrace new analysis and technologies....yet those same teams don't turn to younger broadcasters that are able to keep up with the ever changing game of baseball. Broadcasters that could educate the viewers in a captivating manner as to why some teams are using "openers" or why they don't bunt much anymore or why average starting pitchers are pulled after 6 inning even while tossing a shutout.

 

Instead of having fans question the moves of teams - educate them so they understand.

 

From a purley enterainment view, keeping in mind baseball is competing against other sports and entertainment. Modern baseball is slower and more boring.

 

I have heard time and time again, trying to watch 15 pitching changes, Ks off the chain, less hit and run, stolen bases, bunts etc and having to wait for a guy to hit a HR is boring.

 

From the avg casual fan point of view they are probably right.

[TheHurl]

Hold "old" are old fans? I'm 37 - I'm old. I want to hear about advanced stats. To be honest, I don't know many 50+ year olds that watch baseball regularly.

 

According to the Sport Business Journal the average age of the MLB TV audience is 57 years old (U.S. Study)

[Bobthe4th]

Broadcasts are about ratings not education. Old fans don't want to hear about advanced stats, and despite MLB's want/needs for it to be younger it's not about ratings 10 years fom now.

 

It’s not just old people, there are plenty of younger fans who have no interest in spreadsheets. A lot of people find that stuff boring and it’s a niche interest.

[glory]

Yeah I don't think having announcers that educate viewers on advanced stats is going to make much of a difference. MLB has an older fanbase. The game itself is by design slow and methodical. Younger audiences have sport attention spans and a ton of TV options. It's just not the type of sport millennials are going to get behind unless the league can market its stars better. You will never hear NBA broadcasts talking about PER and win shares, even though they exist in the analytic world of the sport. Millennials flock to the NBA regardless. There are deeper issues than dinosaur play-by-play men. Buck can be replaced by Brian Kenny and it wouldn't really make any difference, other than to people like us.

[Brownie19]

Yeah I don't think having announcers that educate viewers on advanced stats is going to make much of a difference. MLB has an older fanbase. The game itself is by design slow and methodical. Younger audiences have sport attention spans and a ton of TV options. It's just not the type of sport millennials are going to get behind unless the league can market its stars better. You will never hear NBA broadcasts talking about PER and win shares, even though they exist in the analytic world of the sport. Millennials flock to the NBA regardless. There are deeper issues than dinosaur play-by-play men. Buck can be replaced by Brian Kenny and it wouldn't really make any difference, other than to people like us.

 

That's actually a fair point. +1

[Brownie19]

According to the Sport Business Journal the average age of the MLB TV audience is 57 years old (U.S. Study)

 

jesus christ.

[Boxcar]

I've seen it integrated around the league, early in the year(WAR/wOBA/wRC+, etc... must've pissed a lot of viewers off, I rarely hear what they say(broadcasters), it's an art, lol. It'll take time. Google TangoTiger, he has results as recently as this WS. Nerds love stats, industry doesn't.

 

I remember OPS up on the jumbotron about 5 years ago, and near s*** myself, it's always going to be far behind. As others have said ball fans that want to learn and get into the math will, I did.

 

Isn't that just a regular occurrence? How can you be sure having OPS on the Tron was the reason?

[TheHurl]

Isn't that just a regular occurrence? How can you be sure having OPS on the Tron was the reason?

 

He had already s*** himself not being able to get up and go to the washroom...this one was a surprise s*** himself.

 

I don't actually think any announce booth has to go full advanced stats...it would likely be terrible. I don't even mind old school announcers citing average as a positive stat...as a high average is still a good thing. Just can't be looked at by itself. The statements that annoy me are ones like "the new school guys might not think average matters but I think Mookie Betts hitting .346 is one of the most impressive things" or the worst one after a pitcher does well late in the game "The new school guys say a pitcher shouldn't face a team 3rd time through but Manager X could see that his pitcher wasn't slowing down".

 

I'd like to see a personable person who can at least explain why things are changing. If not in the booth, have statsy guys (or one statsy guy) in the Blue Jays Central booth.

[Boxcar]

He had already s*** himself not being able to get up and go to the washroom...this one was a surprise s*** himself.

 

I don't actually think any announce booth has to go full advanced stats...it would likely be terrible. I don't even mind old school announcers citing average as a positive stat...as a high average is still a good thing. Just can't be looked at by itself. The statements that annoy me are ones like "the new school guys might not think average matters but I think Mookie Betts hitting .346 is one of the most impressive things" or the worst one after a pitcher does well late in the game "The new school guys say a pitcher shouldn't face a team 3rd time through but Manager X could see that his pitcher wasn't slowing down".

 

I'd like to see a personable person who can at least explain why things are changing. If not in the booth, have statsy guys (or one statsy guy) in the Blue Jays Central booth.

 

Yeah I agree, which is why I think San Fran's team is so overrated. I think the Rays have the best commentary team in the league because they are both personable, have good chemistry and explain advanced stats and why teams do the things they do without going super heavy on it.

[Bobthe4th]

FWIW both Buck and Pat’s contracts expire at the end of the 2019 season - they signed 5 year contracts in 2014.