Shartkins concerned with Tulo & Martin

[Frenchsoup]

So Shatkins wants to get rid of Tulo/Martin, not even give respectable offers to Eddy and probably Joey Bats. These guys are dorks imho.

[burlingtonbandit]

So Shatkins wants to get rid of Tulo/Martin, not even give respectable offers to Eddy and probably Joey Bats. These guys are dorks imho.

 

What have Edwin and Jose shown this year that makes them worth 4/5 year contract offers?

[BTS]

So Shatkins wants to get rid of Tulo/Martin, not even give respectable offers to Eddy and probably Joey Bats. These guys are dorks imho.

 

Link to article saying they want to get rid of Tulo/Martin? Though hypothetically, it would be pretty easy to defend an course that saw Martin and Tulo given away and Edwin/Bautista allowed to walk.

[Frenchsoup]

What have Edwin and Jose shown this year that makes them worth 4/5 year contract offers?

 

Nothing to them. But we all know how elite they're with the bats.

[Frenchsoup]

Link to article saying they want to get rid of Tulo/Martin? Though hypothetically, it would be pretty easy to defend an course that saw Martin and Tulo given away and Edwin/Bautista allowed to walk.

 

Then the team starts to lose slowly, the defense gets a huge shot to the gut and you have Josh Thole as your starting catcher. All because these buffoons didn't grab a catcher like Kratz or Avilla in the offseason.

[Frenchsoup]

Martin looked a lot better yesterday, so why don't these guys just shut there trap.

[burlingtonbandit]

Nothing to them. But we all know how elite they're with the bats.

 

Edwin's been below replacement level this year and while Jose has looked pretty good at the plate he doesn't look like he can play the OF anymore.

 

You don't get paid on what you've done multiple years ago but what you can provide in the future.

[burlingtonbandit]

Then the team starts to lose slowly, the defense gets a huge shot to the gut and you have Josh Thole as your starting catcher. All because these buffoons didn't grab a catcher like Kratz or Avilla in the offseason.

 

Pretty sure he's talking about after the season. You aren't giving away a SS and C for nothing at this point in the year.

[Frenchsoup]

Then why put down your guys?! They know they haven't been good.

[BTS]

Then the team starts to lose slowly, the defense gets a huge shot to the gut and you have Josh Thole as your starting catcher. All because these buffoons didn't grab a catcher like Kratz or Avilla in the offseason.

 

Obviously none of that is happening now. But imagine a scenario where all of the below happens:

 

- The team wins 83 games and misses the playoffs.

- Martin plays to his projections and finishes with a 1.5 win season.

- Tulo plays to his projections and finishes with a 2.5 win season.

- Edwin plays to his projections and finishes with a 125 wRC+.

- Bautista finishes with a 140 wRC+ but continues to look terrible in the OF.

 

The odds of all of these coming true are small, but they're the most likely outcome in each individual case. In this situation, leaving the offseason with no commitment to Tulo and Martin, comp picks for Edwin and Bautista, and a lot of payroll flexibility is not a bad outcome at all.

[Dick_Pole]

Obviously none of that is happening now. But imagine a scenario where all of the below happens:

 

- The team wins 83 games and misses the playoffs.

- Martin plays to his projections and finishes with a 1.5 win season.

- Tulo plays to his projections and finishes with a 2.5 win season.

- Edwin plays to his projections and finishes with a 125 wRC+.

- Bautista finishes with a 140 wRC+ but continues to look terrible in the OF.

 

The odds of all of these coming true are small, but they're the most likely outcome in each individual case. In this situation, leaving the offseason with no commitment to Tulo and Martin, comp picks for Edwin and Bautista, and a lot of payroll flexibility is not a bad outcome at all.

 

I hope you're right about all these points except the first one. If the starters continue what they've been doing there's no way this team wins only 83 games.

[HERPDERP]

I hope you're right about all these points except the first one. If the starters continue what they've been doing there's no way this team wins only 83 games.

 

well we do have the bullpen...

[vic city]

have you been watching Tulo at all this season? His problem isn't him being pull happy

 

He either doesn't swing at obvious strikes or he completely misses them. Lowest contact % of his career.

 

Obvious regression in his skillset + looking completely lost at the plate

 

Someone started a thread about this a few days ago but I can't remember who

[BigCecil]

What have Edwin and Jose shown this year that makes them worth 4/5 year contract offers?

 

Nothing. But 5 months left. We have seen the slow start movie before.

 

They are both basically 1B/DH guys now. At this point they are looking at closer to Beltres deal than a $125-150mm deal. At least he has D value and he is only a yr older than Jose.

 

For all the talk of how great a shape Jose is in to fight aging curves, his throwing and his shoulder last night don't look too healthy.

[burlingtonbandit]

Nothing. But 5 months left. We have seen the slow start movie before.

 

They are both basically 1B/DH guys now. At this point they are looking at closer to Beltres deal than a $125-150mm deal. At least he has D value and he is only a yr older than Jose.

 

For all the talk of how great a shape Jose is in to fight aging curves, his throwing and his shoulder last night don't look too healthy.

 

Yeah it was in a response to Soup saying they should be offered long term deals. I can't see them giving either of them a significant offer until the end of the season anyway.

 

Jose must have structural damage in the shoulder. Not really any other explanation given how he's thrown the last 2 years.

[HERPDERP]

all because of that stupid throw out attempt that he made in anger...all over Delmon Young

 

good job Jose, that throw probably cost you an extra +$20m

[BigCecil]

all because of that stupid throw out attempt that he made in anger...all over Delmon Young

 

good job Jose, that throw probably cost you an extra +$20m

 

That could have happened on any throw mate. When he nailed a runner @1B before, I bet most of us jumped off the coach with fist pumps. He tried it again and it didn't work out.

 

But I don't blame it on a "stupid throw"...its happens. That's why there are aging curves. These things add up on players.

[baseballsss]

That could have happened on any throw mate. When he nailed a runner @1B before, I bet most of us jumped off the coach with fist pumps. He tried it again and it didn't work out.

 

But I don't blame it on a "stupid throw"...its happens. That's why there are aging curves. These things add up on players.

 

There was s*** that went down in that game with Jones if I remember correctly. Bautista wasn't just trying to get someone out at first he was trying to show up the batter by getting him out at first.

 

Or I could be remembering that wrong.

[baseballsss]

Yeah what did he do? He doesn't appear to have trolled in a while to me.

 

I don't think he did anything. Seems like the mod in question just got tired of him. Maybe there's some history there that I'm not aware of.

 

That's what's wrong with this board. If you don't agree with a certain groups views you get jumped on by everyone and called "the Dogg"( whether he is or not it shouldn't matter). Yah the dude had different views but is he running around saying stuff way off topic no he's just saying his view...

[Terminator]

That's what's wrong with this board. If you don't agree with a certain groups views you get jumped on by everyone and called "the Dogg"( whether he is or not it shouldn't matter). Yah the dude had different views but is he running around saying stuff way off topic no he's just saying his view...

 

I get what you are saying but this board looks for a specific type of poster I think. If you don't fit that you probably aren't going to have a great experience. That approach has drawbacks (kind of a hivemind, limits growth) and benefits (fewer casuals, idiots, etc.) but there are plenty of other boards, including the Jays subreddit, where people who don't fit in here are more likely to find a fit.

[Daniel Labude]

Then why put down your guys?! They know they haven't been good.

 

According to the hitting coach a bunch of hitters are not listening and just doing their own thing. If Tulo and Martin are part of this and hitting like crap it's good to call them out. If they are just playing bad it probably isn't the right move to say something. I don't think we will ever know though.

[baseballsss]

Yeah what did he do? He doesn't appear to have trolled in a while to me.

 

I don't think he did anything. Seems like the mod in question just got tired of him. Maybe there's some history there that I'm not aware of.

 

I get what you are saying but this board looks for a specific type of poster I think. If you don't fit that you probably aren't going to have a great experience. That approach has drawbacks (kind of a hivemind, limits growth) and benefits (fewer casuals, idiots, etc.) but there are plenty of other boards, including the Jays subreddit, where people who don't fit in here are more likely to find a fit.

 

Yah I know what you mean. I've been on this board(old one) for quite sometime so I have seen it grow just think it's stupid to ban someone if they have a different opinion. But yah I see what your saying about certain boards fit certain people.

[polar bear]

Tulo needs to go back to 6th in the order. He has been trying to pull everything.

 

Tulo needs to go back to Colorado.

[BTS]

Yah I know what you mean. I've been on this board(old one) for quite sometime so I have seen it grow just think it's stupid to ban someone if they have a different opinion. But yah I see what your saying about certain boards fit certain people.

 

Have you not read Real Accountant's posts over the last few weeks? It's almost exclusively stupidity that's meant to elicit a reaction from people. He should be permabanned, and it has nothing to do with presenting an honest but unpopular opinion.

Edited May 4, 2016 by BTS

[BigCecil]

There was s*** that went down in that game with Jones if I remember correctly. Bautista wasn't just trying to get someone out at first he was trying to show up the batter by getting him out at first.

 

Or I could be remembering that wrong.

 

That was the game. I happened to be in TOR and was at it.

 

That's a different issue as in "was that an opportune time to try and make a throw to get someone out at 1B?" I tend to agree that he was a fired up and looking to show them up.

 

The point I'm making is the two issues aren't connected. If it was a bad time to make the throw, that doesn't determine whether he gets an injury or not. He could have just as easily hurt it trying to gun down a runner going 1B to 3B, like he has done many times, without injury. Injuries are part of the game. Guy runs down to 1B 100 times no problem.....until one of those times he pulls a hammy. Should he not run to 1B?

[KinofChaos]

Duh, of course he is, everyone is. Goes without saying.

[FrozenRopes]

That defense tho