Can Ryan Goins Stick? Pt. II

[The Cats Ass]

This needs to be a poll.

[Jimcanuck]

I remember people on the board last year wondering if he would be better at SS for the Jays long term than Tulo lol. Thinking he was a 2 Win player at SS.

 

Your memory sucks. The thinking was trading Tulo for prospects, using Tulo salary dollars on pitching (and later, to resign EE), and using Goins or some other cheaper SS would be better for the team going forward.

 

Board majority opinion was Goins would put up 1.5-2 WAR, as a full time SS.

 

Also, it's April 26. This is a reactionary thread. Goins may or may not match his 2015 output. Probably not, but he'll be fine as MIF backup.

 

I remember in the offseason everytime someone suggested trading high on Shitabello, you were the first to defend him.

[Boxcar]

I remember people on the board last year wondering if he would be better at SS for the Jays long term than Tulo lol. Thinking he was a 2 Win player at SS.

 

No one with a working brain.

[BTS]

Your memory sucks. The thinking was trading Tulo for prospects, using Tulo salary dollars on pitching (and later, to resign EE), and using Goins or some other cheaper SS would be better for the team going forward.

 

Board majority opinion was Goins would put up 1.5-2 WAR, as a full time SS.

 

Also, it's April 26. This is a reactionary thread. Goins may or may not match his 2015 output. Probably not, but he'll be fine as MIF backup.

 

I remember in the offseason everytime someone suggested trading high on Shitabello, you were the first to defend him.

 

Are his sub-replacement level projections reactionary math?

[AdamLindsMom]

He's the shittliest player on the team, but he has more swagger than anyone.

I like how he's too good to run out ground balls that look like they'll probably be outs.

 

Josh Thole says hello

[Jimcanuck]

Are his sub-replacement level projections reactionary math?

 

Discussing if Goins can stick 3 weeks into the season, after his quite reasonable 1.5 WAR 2015, is reactionary. Ever heard of SSS?

[gruber92]

What a stupid, knee jerk reactionary thread.

 

His defence is solid, best in the org..

The BABIP Gods have been bitch slapping him so far

He's a solid utility infielder

Does he provide more value than Travis? No

It's APRIL 26th

 

Revisit this thread at the end of June. Like Flafson stated, he's an 80-90 wRC+ type with a fantastic glove. Any MLB team would gladly have him on their 25 man.

 

Do you guys want to seriously go through this again? Haven't you all embarrassed yourselves enough in the past few years?

[gruber92]

Yes. But that's not Goins. He's like 40% below league average with the bat and not an elite defender.

 

I know this because FanGraphs says so.

[BTS]

What a stupid, knee jerk reactionary thread.

 

His defence is solid, best in the org..

The BABIP Gods have been bitch slapping him so far

He's a solid utility infielder

Does he provide more value than Travis? No

It's APRIL 26th

 

Revisit this thread at the end of June. Like Flafson stated, he's an 80-90 wRC+ type with a fantastic glove. Any MLB team would gladly have him on their 25 man.

 

Do you guys want to seriously go through this again? Haven't you all embarrassed yourselves enough in the past few years?

 

He's actually a 60 wRC+ bat who's maybe a couple runs above replacement going forward. Maybe.

[closetjaysfan]

What a stupid, knee jerk reactionary thread.

 

His defence is solid, best in the org..

The BABIP Gods have been bitch slapping him so far

He's a solid utility infielder

Does he provide more value than Travis? No

It's APRIL 26th

 

Revisit this thread at the end of June. Like Flafson stated, he's an 80-90 wRC+ type with a fantastic glove. Any MLB team would gladly have him on their 25 man.

Do you guys want to seriously go through this again? Haven't you all embarrassed yourselves enough in the past few years?

 

Great lets trade him... should have done it in the off season when Harold Reynolds pumped his value up.

[gruber92]

He's actually a 60 wRC+ bat who's maybe a couple runs above replacement going forward. Maybe.

 

He wasn't a 60 wRC+ bat last year. What makes you think he won't repeat or be better than that this year? Are you actually basing your opinion on the first 21 games played? Oh yeah, you don't have an actual opinion, just one that is statistically backed by a FanGraph projection. Good job.

[Jimcanuck]

Let's be clear tho.... Goins makes $0.5M which is a key reason why the Jays likely never seriously considered upgrading the MIF bench position.

[BTS]

He wasn't a 60 wRC+ bat last year. What makes you think he won't repeat or be better than that this year? Are you actually basing your opinion on the first 21 games played? Oh yeah, you don't have an actual opinion, just one that is statistically backed by a FanGraph projection. Good job.

 

He's a career 62 wRC+ hitter. He's projected as a 63 wRC+ hitter. He's probably a 60-65 wRC+ hitter.

[Jimcanuck]

$11.2M surplus value in 2015

[BTS]

$11.2M surplus value in 2015

 

Yup, he was quite useful in 2015.

[Frenchsoup]

Shapiro was actually pumping up Goins after spring training. So Shapiro either wants to trade him, or actually thinks he's good. Kind of a scary thought eh Gruber?

[closetjaysfan]

I know this because FanGraphs says so.

 

Says the guy that references BABIP in his previous post. Also note that you adjust his BABIP to average he is still around -0.3 WAR. His D is more than serviceable but to say that he provides = or > value than a healthy Travis is crazy.

[King]

What a stupid, knee jerk reactionary thread.

 

His defence is solid, best in the org..

The BABIP Gods have been bitch slapping him so far

He's a solid utility infielder

Does he provide more value than Travis? No

It's APRIL 26th

 

Revisit this thread at the end of June. Like Flafson stated, he's an 80-90 wRC+ type with a fantastic glove. Any MLB team would gladly have him on their 25 man.

 

Do you guys want to seriously go through this again? Haven't you all embarrassed yourselves enough in the past few years?

 

A ton of atom balls.

[gruber92]

Shapiro was actually pumping up Goins after spring training. So Shapiro either wants to trade him, or actually thinks he's good. Kind of a scary thought eh Gruber?

 

Nope.

[gruber92]

Says the guy that references BABIP in his previous post. Also note that you adjust his BABIP to average he is still around -0.3 WAR. His D is more than serviceable but to say that he provides = or > value than a healthy Travis is crazy.

 

Who the f*** said he provides equal or better value than Travis? Stop making s*** up and learn how to read. This thread is stupid and I'm not going through all this s*** again. You guys can go ahead and talk s*** and egg your faces all over again. I'll just sit back and watch, AGAIN. Thank you for the opportunity to revisit this glorious ride.

[Sorrow]

I think Ryan Goins is one of those players who looks better defensively than he actually is. People talk about him on broadcasts being the best defensive second baseman Toronto's ever had and that's insane when you've had Orlando Hudson and Aaron Hill who during their Toronto tenure were insanely underrated defensively.

 

Goins is a well below average bat with average to above average D. When Travis is healthy I'm hoping that Shatkins takes advantage of Goins option (I believe he has one) to keep Barney and Dominguez as depth.

[Dick_Pole]

He needs to get his walk rate back to where it was last year. If he can do that, I think he is deserving to be ahead of Barney on the depth chart. If he continues at this pace, not so much.

[gruber92]

Says the guy that references BABIP in his previous post. Also note that you adjust his BABIP to average he is still around -0.3 WAR. His D is more than serviceable but to say that he provides = or > value than a healthy Travis is crazy.

 

What does BABIP have to do with projections? Lol..

[burlingtonbandit]

Your memory sucks. The thinking was trading Tulo for prospects, using Tulo salary dollars on pitching (and later, to resign EE), and using Goins or some other cheaper SS would be better for the team going forward.

 

Board majority opinion was Goins would put up 1.5-2 WAR, as a full time SS.

 

Also, it's April 26. This is a reactionary thread. Goins may or may not match his 2015 output. Probably not, but he'll be fine as MIF backup.

 

I remember in the offseason everytime someone suggested trading high on Shitabello, you were the first to defend him.

 

Well that thinking was stupid. Tulo is better defensively than Goins and even though he is struggling with the bat is still so much better. Like I said in the offseason the downgrade of Tulo to Goins is more than any pitching upgrade you were going to get.

 

I'd like to see these defeding colabello posts you speak of. I probably said something along he doesn't have much value around the league even with his career year last year which is hardly defending him.

[burlingtonbandit]

He wasn't a 60 wRC+ bat last year. What makes you think he won't repeat or be better than that this year? Are you actually basing your opinion on the first 21 games played? Oh yeah, you don't have an actual opinion, just one that is statistically backed by a FanGraph projection. Good job.

 

His talent.

[Angrioter]

His talent.

 

Thug life

[gruber92]

His talent.

You're an idiot.

[BTS]

Gruber is HEATED

[gruber92]

Well that thinking was stupid. Tulo is better defensively than Goins and even though he is struggling with the bat is still so much better. Like I said in the offseason the downgrade of Tulo to Goins is more than any pitching upgrade you were going to get.

 

I'd like to see these defeding colabello posts you speak of. I probably said something along he doesn't have much value around the league even with his career year last year which is hardly defending him.

 

Although Tulo is an excellent defender, he not better than Goins. Their hands and arm strength are comparable, but Goins has a bit more range and his ability to turn a DP is far better than Tulo's.

[King]

Gruber is HEATED

 

Nice bait thread!