Ross Atkins GM

[L54]

Nice, North.

[fireballW]

AA makes a playoff team with the best offense in baseball, while showing the ability to rebuild a farm system within about a year and a half and the brains are so happy he is gone. SMH. Shapiro with AA would have been ideal if they could make it work. AA used analytics and scouting. With pure analytics guys we will only ever be on part with 2/3 of the league.

[Boxcar]

AA makes a playoff team with the best offense in baseball, while showing the ability to rebuild a farm system within about a year and a half and the brains are so happy he is gone. SMH. Shapiro with AA would have been ideal if they could make it work. AA used analytics and scouting. With pure analytics guys we will only ever be on part with 2/3 of the league.

 

Are we just forgetting the fact that he failed massively for the vast majority of the time he was here, then? Convenient. He also had to clear out all the upper minor talent to get there.

[Captain Adama]

AA makes a playoff team with the best offense in baseball, while showing the ability to rebuild a farm system within about a year and a half and the brains are so happy he is gone. SMH. Shapiro with AA would have been ideal if they could make it work. AA used analytics and scouting. With pure analytics guys we will only ever be on part with 2/3 of the league.

 

I can only think of one instance where AA used analytics when he signed Russell Martin, everything else has shown a very simplistic view of player evaluation. Even his scouting record wasn't sterling.

[TilsonBritoFan]

Are we just forgetting the fact that he failed massively for the vast majority of the time he was here, then? Convenient. He also had to clear out all the upper minor talent to get there.

 

But Shapiro has failed massively in Cleveland. Bottom line is, Indians didn't win, and were 29th in attendance. Fail at both.

 

Why are we settling for someone else's castoffs?

 

Shapiro's recent track record f***ing blows. AA on the other hand, just won executive of the year as voted by his peers, who no offense, know a lot more about baseball than either of us. So I'm not going out on a limb when I say that AA was a helluva lot better than what we are stuck with now.

[GreekFatAss]

Everyone who loves AA for doing well for 2 months while ignoring the first 5 years are the same ones who decry Happ's final 2 months of the season while pointing to his career for the 5 years prior to that.

[BTS]

But Shapiro has failed massively in Cleveland. Bottom line is, Indians didn't win, and didn't draw fans. Fail at both.

 

Why are we settling for someone else's castoffs?

 

Shapiro's recent track record f***ing blows.

 

Can I ask how many teams you think would be better positioned going forward than Cleveland if Cleveland announced today that they would have a $150M payroll?

[Captain Adama]

But Shapiro has failed massively in Cleveland. Bottom line is, Indians didn't win, and didn't draw fans. Fail at both.

 

Why are we settling for someone else's castoffs?

 

Shapiro's recent track record f***ing blows.

 

AA's payroll was Top 10 since '13 and he couldn't do s*** until this year when he unloaded the whole farm

 

Last time the Indians had a Top 10 payroll was '02, since then they've been bottom 10 for almost every year. Clever.

[baubau]

I can only think of one instance where AA used analytics when he signed Russell Martin, everything else has shown a very simplistic view of player evaluation. Even his scouting record wasn't sterling.

 

You could argue the Tulo trade was a fairly analytical move.

[dineke]

You could argue the Tulo trade was a fairly analytical move.

 

Analytics really helped AA uncover that underrated gem.

[L54]

But Shapiro has failed massively in Cleveland. Bottom line is, Indians didn't win, and were 29th in attendance. Fail at both.

 

Why are we settling for someone else's castoffs?

 

Shapiro's recent track record f***ing blows. AA on the other hand, just won executive of the year as voted by his peers, who no offense, know a lot more about baseball than either of us. So I'm not going out on a limb when I say that AA was a helluva lot better than what we are stuck with now.

 

I'm going to continue to bring this up. Remember how the majority of the board was praying CLE didn't grab a WC spot because they were viewed as one of the toughest teams to go up against?

[BTS]

But Shapiro has failed massively in Cleveland. Bottom line is, Indians didn't win, and were 29th in attendance. Fail at both.

 

Why are we settling for someone else's castoffs?

 

Shapiro's recent track record f***ing blows. AA on the other hand, just won executive of the year as voted by his peers, who no offense, know a lot more about baseball than either of us. So I'm not going out on a limb when I say that AA was a helluva lot better than what we are stuck with now.

 

Executive of the year awards you say? Mark Shapiro has two of those.

[baubau]

Analytics really helped AA uncover that underrated gem.

 

Not sure if sarcasm or if you misunderstood what I was trying to say. Likely the later as I didn't really say much haha.

 

Tulo is being paid more than Reyes and from face value, it looks like a terrible move for the Jays taking on a larger and longer contract while giving up two prospects, one of which was ranked top 100. However, Tulo throughout the rest of his contract projects to provides a surplus value of 50M where Reyes projects to provides -20M. AA pretty much got a projected 70M in surplus value in the trade. I doubt AA gave much thought to this on the Marlins and Dickey trade.

 

Maybe I am giving him too much credit, maybe it was just as simple as "Tulo? He available. Get err done!"

[TilsonBritoFan]

AA's payroll was Top 10 since '13 and he couldn't do s*** until this year when he unloaded the whole farm

 

Last time the Indians had a Top 10 payroll was '02, since then they've been bottom 10 for almost every year. Clever.

 

Great logic. Why don't we just sign every castoff GM/high level exec from every team with a bottom 10 payroll over the past 5 years? After all they were just handcuffed by bottom 10 payrolls. Some hidden gems in there.

 

And in regards to your "top 10 since 2013" comment, that's ridiculous. First off it was 10th. No higher. 10th out of 30 is the "upper middle class" of payrolls. It doesn't guarantee anything. And in those 3 years where they gave him the 10th most payroll he made the playoffs 1 of those 3 years, which isn't amazing but is not bad either. And one of those "bad" years was 2013 when he put together a great team that was the pre-season World Series favorite. Unfortunately everything that could go wrong went wrong (Josh Johnson, Reyes injuries, etc). And if you say he only won in 2015 by selling the farm how can that be? I thought he sold the farm in 2013? Which means he's amazing at rebuilding the farm system if he was able to build it back up and sell it again 2 years later. But I'm sure you'll just ignore these facts, make some dumb comment meant to insult me and we'll carry on disagreeing.

 

Besides all of that, we have the 4th largest market in MLB. We should have a top 4 payroll.

[Captain Adama]

Not sure if sarcasm or if you misunderstood what I was trying to say. Likely the later as I didn't really say much haha.

 

Tulo is being paid more than Reyes and from face value, it looks like a terrible move for the Jays taking on a larger and longer contract while giving up two prospects, one of which was ranked top 100. However, Tulo throughout the rest of his contract projects to provides a surplus value of 50M where Reyes projects to provides -20M. AA pretty much got a projected 70M in surplus value in the trade. I doubt AA gave much thought to this on the Marlins and Dickey trade.

 

Maybe I am giving him too much credit, maybe it was just as simple as "Tulo? He available. Get err done!"

 

I really don't see analytics at play here. Tulo was simply a better shortstop than Reyes at face value.

[TilsonBritoFan]

I'm going to continue to bring this up. Remember how the majority of the board was praying CLE didn't grab a WC spot because they were viewed as one of the toughest teams to go up against?

 

I guess I'll have to continue to bring up the fact that they didn't win the Wild Card despite being in a weak division, and finished 29th in attendance despite some good young pitching.

 

AA was deemed the best GM in baseball by all the other GM's - y'know the guys who actually get paid millions to make baseball decisions for a living and know more than us. AA is like like Hansel from Zoolander - he's so hot right now. Those who are s***ing all over him while lauding the Shapiro/Atkins dragon look foolish.

[baubau]

I really don't see analytics at play here. Tulo was simply a better shortstop than Reyes at face value.

 

But.. Wouldn't that also qualify for the Martin signing? He just got a better catcher. Lol. What do you define as a analytical trade or signing? Perhaps we have some confusion in our definitions.

[Captain Adama]

Great logic. Why don't we just sign every castoff GM/high level exec from every team with a bottom 10 payroll over the past 5 years?

And in regards to your "top 10 since 2013" comment, that's ridiculous. First off it was 10th. No higher. 10th out of 30 is the "upper middle class" of payrolls. It doesn't guarantee anything. And in those 3 years where they gave him the 10th most payroll he made the playoffs 1 of those 3 years, which isn't amazing but is not bad either. And one of those "bad" years was 2013 when he put together a great team that was the pre-season World Series favorite. Unfortunately everything that could go wrong went wrong (Josh Johnson, Reyes injuries, etc). And if you say he only won in 2015 by selling the farm how can that be? I thought he sold the farm in 2013? Which means he's amazing at rebuilding the farm system if he was able to build it back up and sell it again 2 years later.

 

Besides all of that, we have the 4th largest market in MLB. We should have a top 4 payroll.

 

1. That's become a growing trend around MLB front offices.

2. From whom? Grantland, Fangraphs, BP didn't even project the Jays to even win the division. A bunch of posters here thought they wouldn't even crack 90 wins. And BTW, you usually tend not to depend on guys with extensive injury histories, because they usually get, y'know...injured.

3. Really, you should be able to win with a 140-160 payroll anyway, if you need a Top 4 payroll to simply compete, that's pretty pathetic and you're likely setting yourself up for s***** contracts.

[Captain Adama]

But.. Wouldn't that also qualify for the Martin signing? He just got a better catcher. Lol. What do you define as a analytical trade or signing? Perhaps we have some confusion in our definitions.

 

Possibly, maybe because everyone and their grandmother knew that Martin was an elite framer.

[CHRIS]

So back to jeans?

 

Gene Brownridge.

 

That ties both topics together nicely I think.

[TilsonBritoFan]

1. That's become a growing trend around MLB front offices.

2. From whom? Grantland, Fangraphs, BP didn't even project the Jays to even win the division. A bunch of posters here thought they wouldn't even crack 90 wins. And BTW, you usually tend not to depend on guys with extensive injury histories, because they usually get, y'know...injured.

3. Really, you should be able to win with a 140-160 payroll anyway, if you need a Top 4 payroll to simply compete, that's pretty pathetic and you're likely setting yourself up for s***** contracts.

 

 

1. No the trend is to take guys who were successful with low payrolls, like Friedman. Shapiro is not one of those

2. Right. No one thought the Jays would be good in 2013. Come on.

3. We have a huge market, we should be able to play with the big boys. Should have kept this exact team together and added a bullpen piece and see what it can do.

 

Of the posters I disagree with, SirBJay you are one of the more tolerable ones, as you don't hurl the insults like many others here. But to me, this place is becoming more and more intolerable overall. Its essentially become a place for a bunch of prospect porn fan boys to jerk off. Most of you would rather have a top farm system than win a World Series. Meanwhile, anyone who disagrees gets treated like they have Ebola.

 

I need a break from this place, so I'm out. I only hope I can stay away permanently this time. (which I'm sure will make some of you very happy)

[burlingtonbandit]

I thought Atkins was an analytic guy but its interesting seeing how he has always been more of a scouting guy. I didn't know he pitched in the Indians system either.

[GreekFatAss]

Is there any intriguing Indians in the Rule 5?

[P2F]

Most of you would rather have a top farm system than win a World Series. Meanwhile, anyone who disagrees gets treated like they have Ebola.

 

You do understand that having a top farm system is kind of vital to the likelihood of future and sustained success, right?

[Slade]

1. No the trend is to take guys who were successful with low payrolls, like Friedman. Shapiro is not one of those

2. Right. No one thought the Jays would be good in 2013. Come on.

3. We have a huge market, we should be able to play with the big boys. Should have kept this exact team together and added a bullpen piece and see what it can do.

 

Of the posters I disagree with, SirBJay you are one of the more tolerable ones, as you don't hurl the insults like many others here. But to me, this place is becoming more and more intolerable overall. Its essentially become a place for a bunch of prospect porn fan boys to jerk off. Most of you would rather have a top farm system than win a World Series. Meanwhile, anyone who disagrees gets treated like they have Ebola.

 

I need a break from this place, so I'm out. I only hope I can stay away permanently this time. (which I'm sure will make some of you very happy)

 

Are you still crying over AA? He had the opportunity to stay and he chose not to, end of story. I'm sure you would of been screaming for his head anyways if they didn't completely sell the farm to get to the playoffs.

 

You're writing guys off that you barely know anything about, give them a chance. Even with the loss of Price and the lackluster additions I'd still consider the Jays favorites to win the east.

[GeorgiaPeach]

Speaking of this, my wife and I are about to have our 3rd child....still working on names. He'll be our 3rd boy (other two are Maddux and Perry). On the list is:

 

- Emery

- Miles

- Archer

- Beckett

 

Last name starts with a B so we're leary on Beckett (double

 

I tossed around the idea of Gehrig as Id love a baseball reference.

 

Thoughts? Which do you like and/or any other suggestions? Thanks guys

 

Grant or Moogy.

 

All kidding aside, Tyrus.

[Cyborg]

Speaking of this, my wife and I are about to have our 3rd child....still working on names. He'll be our 3rd boy (other two are Maddux and Perry). On the list is:

 

- Emery

- Miles

- Archer

- Beckett

 

Last name starts with a B so we're leary on Beckett (double

 

I tossed around the idea of Gehrig as Id love a baseball reference.

 

Thoughts? Which do you like and/or any other suggestions? Thanks guys

Easy:

 

Beeston.

[TheHurl]

If you definitely want a baseball name, go with Oil Can, or Whitey.

 

Whitey Brownridge would be fantastic.

Edited December 4, 2015 by TheHurl

[TheHurl]

So back to jeans?

 

Levi Brownridge...a merging of topics and I think a great name.

 

Middle name Bobby of course (but for the Zappa song not the Whitney killing singer)

[TheHurl]

What is there to talk about? None of us know anything about him.

 

that and Shapiro is the GM.