Official MiLB/Prospects Thread

[AintNoThang]

This Boxcar guy and Laika dude don't know no s***!

 

If you think McKinney, Fisher, Drury, or Hernandez deserve ABs over Alford, you have no idea how asset management works. He's the odd man out right now. The rest are still going to get opportunities next year. It's a fact. Shitkins are high on them because they/them acquired said players.

 

If you have a very solid defensive player with below average offensive tools, you can still have a valuable player (ie. Dyson). That would be a much more valuable 4th outfielder than f***ing McKinney or Fisher (I stopped playing at 13 and could still make catches he's not making).

 

Laika implies how a swing change is meaningless in being hopeful of a turn around. Bautista, Donaldson, and Martinez says hi. Plus, look how many people broke out and had career years this year.

 

So let's break this down: best case scenario, he has great defense and was able to make enough of an adjustment to be a slightly below average offensive player, making him valuable. Worst case scenario, he proves he's s*** in a year that's meaningless, and he's cut next year. OR, in between the two scenarios, like I said, he has a very strong month (even s*** players have them) and gets the attention of some team who's willing to do a Gose/Travis type trade and hope for a player that can turn into something. What's to lose? It's all about the asset management, in this case.

[Boxcar]

Hurling insults my way is the appropriate way of validating your own...lol.

 

Alford did make swing changes early in the year. Since those swing changes he's had 268 plate appearances going back to May 1 and put up an OPS north of .850. You always want the largest sample size possible. 268 plate appearances isn't a ton of plate appearances, but it's not a completely insignificant amount either.

 

My belief is that maybe the adjustments he's made has helped his game and he is a much better player. I'm not wholly convicted but he's had enough success given his elite athleticism that I want to see more. I'm not alone in this. How is this a nonsensical view.

 

You believe he's s*** despite his recent success because you've declared him to be garbage and you're never wrong so it must be so. The more recent stats don't back you up, but you fall back on the belief that you're the smartest man on the planet, so those stats be damned.

 

Yes. I am the one with nonsensical viewpoints. Tell me again how great Fisher and McKinney are, because those are the guys preventing Alford from getting at bats.

 

You've got it.

 

Also, using one stat (or I guess technically two?) To justify your beliefs over fewer than 300 PA is really dumb. Thought you might want to know.

 

Also, I don't need to validate any of my views because they are based in observable reality. You're the one arguing that the sky is actually green, not me.

[saskjayfan]

You've got it.

 

Also, using one stat (or I guess technically two?) To justify your beliefs over fewer than 300 PA is really dumb. Thought you might want to know.

 

Also, I don't need to validate any of my views because they are based in observable reality. You're the one arguing that the sky is actually green, not me.

 

No actually, I'm taking into account the words of Bobby Meacham and Corey Hart. They both said Alford made meaningful changes and improvement to his swing. The stats just back those words. Really though, what the f*** could a baseball manager and a hitting coach know about baseball? Clearly you know a f*** of a lot more than Meacham and Hart.

 

Let's keep rolling with McKinney and Fisher. They're both crap defenders and McKinney's Wrc+ at the MLB level is 84 and Fisher's is 75. If you just keep praying to some voodoo god maybe they'll start hitting and gain the ability to play defense.

 

Most people who want to see Alford play aren't highly convicted that he's a great player. We just want him to get an opportunity. Maybe he will suck, but the other guys given opportunities have looked like hot garbage, so we want to see something else.

Edited September 15, 2019 by saskjayfan

[King]

No actually, I'm taking into account the words of Bobby Meacham and Corey Hart. They both said Alford made meaningful changes and improvement to his swing. The stats just back those words. Really though, what the f*** could a baseball manager and a hitting coach know about baseball? Clearly you know a f*** of a lot more than Meacham and Hart.

 

Let's keep rolling with McKinney and Fisher. They're both crap defenders and McKinney's Wrc+ at the MLB level is 84 and Fisher's is 75. If you just keep praying to some voodoo god maybe they'll start hitting and gain the ability to play defense.

 

Most people who want to see Alford play aren't highly convicted that he's a great player. We just want him to get an opportunity. Maybe he will suck, but the other guys given opportunities have looked like hot garbage, so we want to see something else.

If the team believed Alford made meaningful changes and improvement to his swing, maybe they would be starting him in September?

[Boxcar]

If the team believed Alford made meaningful changes and improvement to his swing, maybe they would be starting him in September?

 

Oooh checkmate

[Laika]

If the team believed Alford made meaningful changes and improvement to his swing, maybe they would be starting him in September?

 

Remember, the organization and Bobby Meachem broke up 11 days ago. I think we now know why.

 

Meachem: Anthony Alford has made swing changes and he is good now. You should play him a lot in September.

 

Shatkins: We are only heavily invested in the players WE acquired. You're fired! We will promote Alford and make him ride the bench as a monument to your hubris.

[Krylian]

I wonder if they deal Alford in the off season for IFA cap space?

[AintNoThang]

If the team believed Alford made meaningful changes and improvement to his swing, maybe they would be starting him in September?

 

Wait one second! I thought you "passed away" tragically a while back?

 

I don't know how you guys don't understand the mini outrage over not giving him ABs. Alford was one of the most athletic players drafted his year. They were so high on him that they paid him to play football in the hopes he'd return. He missed time due to that, and yet still produced enough to make his way into top 50 lists as recent as 2 years ago. Most discussions involving him said he just needs to make adjustments and he can be something. The year that he made an adjustment and produced very well since the beginning of May, and we don't at least see what he is at the major league level? And we give extended looks to Hansen, Brito, McKinney, Fisher, Drury, etc., whilst this is the last chance to audition Alford? That's egregious to me.

 

What if he can provide enough defensive WAR to overcome any *potential* offensive WAR from the other guys. The crazy thing is I don't think he'll amount to much, but I think he can provide more value than the vagines that I mentioned above.

 

You guys are talking like we have an outfield full of Betts and Trouts. Taking these ABs away from the other guys will not affect the Jays in any way, shape, or form in the future. And has a *chance* of paying dividends, albeit very unlikely...but it's worth a shot.

[Laika]

I have heard logical arguments as to why Alford would not play over players like Hernandez, Drury and McKinney but so far I have not heard a persuasive argument as to why Urena and Davis play over him.

 

This is incredibly simple.

 

1) Urena is not an outfielder. Alford is not an infielder. They have nothing to do with each other.

2) Davis and Alford's defense is a wash as far as we know. Davis' projections are slightly better.

[Orgfiller]

I have heard logical arguments as to why Alford would not play over players like Hernandez, Drury and McKinney but so far I have not heard a persuasive argument as to why Urena and Davis play over him.

 

Because Urena doesn't play the same positions as Alford and Jonathan Davis actually had a decent year at AAA while demonstrating the same tools that everyone raves over Alford about - speed and CF defense.

[AintNoThang]

Actually, I'll just answer my own question with a possible explanation. It's possible Alford makes the team next year because McKinney/Davis have options. And Teo might get moved or play 1B/DH. In that sense, they know they have no choice but to carry Alford next year so they are using this month to audition other bubble guys.

 

Also, I can relinquish my presidency of the Anthony Alford Fan Club and go back to hating him.

 

I actually thought about that, but it seems too logical for this regime.

[Laika]

I refute this because today Drury could have played 3rd and McKinney 1st. Leaving OF open for Alford. Also, Montoyo used the DH on Bichette to get Urena in a couple days prior.

 

This isn’t a refutation. He’s using Urena to give infielders partial rests at the end of a long season.

 

I’ve slowly come to the opinion that you are either obtuse on purpose, or you are the dumbest above average poster.

[Barkerfan23]

A lot of people here are assuming that this front office is a good at evaluating talent.

 

This is a front office that is convinced that Derek Fisher, Billy Mckinney, & Socrates Brito are future all stars. Their evaluations are completely out of left field. In basic words, they do not know who is good and who isn't

 

But I am starting to think the fact that Mckinney and Fisher are white, is definately playing into their favor. Maybe they have parents in influence.

[saskjayfan]

Oooh checkmate

 

checkmate...give me a break. We all know why Alford isn't playing. His fate was sealed the moment the Fisher trade was made. Atkins called him an every day centre fielder. Our outfield will consist of Hernandez, Gurriel Jr., Grichuk and Fisher next year.

[Krylian]

checkmate...give me a break. We all know why Alford isn't playing. His fate was sealed the moment the Fisher trade was made. Atkins called him an every day centre fielder. Our outfield will consist of Hernandez, Gurriel Jr., Grichuk and Fisher.

 

By the time this team is an actual contender again there's a very good chance that only 1 of those names will still be on the roster.

Edited September 16, 2019 by Krylian

[saskjayfan]

By the team this team is an actual contender again there's a very good chance that only 1 of those names will still be on the roster.

 

Grichuk isn't going anywhere for the next 4 years. So does that mean we don't compete until 2024..lol Lourdes isn't a free agent until 2025 and he's the one guy you actually want on the roster.

[Krylian]

Grichuk isn't going anywhere for the next 4 years. So does that mean we don't compete until 2024..lol Lourdes isn't a free agent until 2025 and he's the one guy you actually want on the roster.

 

Salaries can always be dumped if need be. There are ways to make it happen. If his 2020 is like his 2019, I don't think we'll see him in 2021.

[Spanky99]

Remember, the organization and Bobby Meachem broke up 11 days ago. I think we now know why.

 

Meachem: Anthony Alford has made swing changes and he is good now. You should play him a lot in September.

 

Shatkins: We are only heavily invested in the players WE acquired. You're fired! We will promote Alford and make him ride the bench as a monument to your hubris.

 

lol... Gold!

[Boxcar]

checkmate...give me a break. We all know why Alford isn't playing. His fate was sealed the moment the Fisher trade was made. Atkins called him an every day centre fielder. Our outfield will consist of Hernandez, Gurriel Jr., Grichuk and Fisher next year.

 

Sounds like they know what they're doing!

 

(Because Alford f***ing blooooows)

[glory]

I actually thought about that, but it seems too logical for this regime.

 

Atkins hoards prospects regardless of how marginal they are for as long as he can. Pompey hasn't been good for four years and he was still set to make the roster this season until he got hurt. Keeping Alford on the roster in 2020 is exactly the type of thing Atkins would do to avoid losing him for nothing. If he dumps Alford in the winter, then there must be a backstory that none of us know about.

 

I don't mind playing Alford, even if all he provides is D and speed he's still an upgrade at CF over anything we currently have, but hopefully all of this is moot when Giles is traded for a young CF who can actually play CF and hit a little bit.

[Boxcar]

Atkins hoards prospects regardless of how marginal they are for as long as he can. Pompey hasn't been good for four years and he was still set to make the roster this season until he got hurt. Keeping Alford on the roster in 2020 is exactly the type of thing Atkins would do to avoid losing him for nothing. If he dumps Alford in the winter, then there must be a backstory that none of us know about.

 

I don't mind playing Alford, even if all he provides is D and speed he's still an upgrade at CF over anything we currently have, but hopefully all of this is moot when Giles is traded for a young CF who can actually play CF and hit a little bit.

 

I don't think it's a certainty that Giles is traded.

[Laika]

Secondly, Drury still played the infield today. So not a single infielder was rested!

 

Missed this point yesterday. If this is your indirect way of saying that Vladimir Guerrero Jr. is actually a DH, then I'll agree. Otherwise you are just wrong.

[glory]

I don't think it's a certainty that Giles is traded.

 

According to Rosenthal he was already traded to the Yankees for 3 prospects and that’s when he had an injury (so that combined with trading with Cashman means the return was probably going to be lukewarm at best). I think he will be moved in the winter. Maybe they hold him until next year's deadline but that depends on how much they want to pay a closer right now.

[Jimcanuck]

According to Rosenthal he was already traded to the Yankees for 3 prospects and that’s when he had an injury (so that combined with trading with Cashman means the return was probably going to be lukewarm at best). I think he will be moved in the winter. Maybe they hold him until next year's deadline but that depends on how much they want to pay a closer right now.

 

Agree. A new closer should emerge from the multitude of back end starters shatkins have accumulated.

[glory]

Agree. A new closer should emerge from the multitude of back end starters shatkins have accumulated.

 

Or in the absence of that, the Jays could put a high K reliever coming off a down year into that spot and hopefully get an asset at the deadline. Shatkins has been pretty good with scrap heap RP pick ups every year.

 

Keeping Giles only makes sense if we intend on competing next season, and that sure as hell won't be the plan. I just hope he's moved for an actual package of prospects and not Ian Happ or some other failed/declining prospect who the team wants to rehabilitate.

[Barkerfan23]

Hey Ross it's me Brian Cashman

Guess what buddy I can give you 18 years of controllable pitching for Giles. You interested. They arent very good prospect but you will control them

[Barkerfan23]

Hey Ross it's me Brian Cashman

Guess what buddy I can give you 18 years of controllable pitching for Giles. You interested. They arent very good prospect but you will control them

 

Hey Brian its Ross. I cant let you do that . Why don't you let me throw in a prospect or two even things out. We have this catcher in Lansing the scouts are high on but since your being so nice to us I want to throw him in

[Laika]

Ya he is right now. But my consternation was mostly because Montoyo could have just put Drury at 3rd, McKinney at 1st and Alford in the OF. But he wanted to see Urena at 3rd.

 

I think the most probable scenario is that Montoyo thinks Urena can be the utility guy next year. Which is kind of yuck.

 

Just trying to figure out what he's thinking. Based on this quote:

 

“This is the perfect September to see if they can play in the big leagues at the highest level against the best teams ’cause that’s what we’re playing, the best teams since the Dodgers — Houston, Tampa, Yankees, Boston,” Blue Jays manager Charlie Montoyo said last week. “It’s not a typical September. We’re playing the best teams in baseball, trying to make it to the playoffs, they’re all trying to win. It’s good competition for all these kids to show what they can do.”

 

It seems he's actually looking at guys instead of just throwing random s*** in the lineup to get the season over with.

 

One very common outhouse hole for baseball fans to fall into is to analyze or overanalyze quotes from managers and executives. It's mostly just doublespeak, party lines, and platitudes... all of which is to be expected from public-facing people and people in positions where they have to negotiate with competitors, but it's all essentially devoid of insight or any content worth turning a brain cell to.

[Boxcar]

Or in the absence of that, the Jays could put a high K reliever coming off a down year into that spot and hopefully get an asset at the deadline. Shatkins has been pretty good with scrap heap RP pick ups every year.

 

Keeping Giles only makes sense if we intend on competing next season, and that sure as hell won't be the plan. I just hope he's moved for an actual package of prospects and not Ian Happ or some other failed/declining prospect who the team wants to rehabilitate.

 

The plan won't be to compete next season

 

Please analyze this statement

[Boxcar]

Toronto Blue Jays 2020 slogan:

 

"f*** it, whatever, I guess"