Official MiLB/Prospects Thread

[Daniel Labude]

No I want him up now and lose him at age 25!

 

10 year extension....now!

[CBlake]

Would AAA be much more of a challenge for Vladi?

[Jonn]

Would AAA be much more of a challenge for Vladi?

 

The simple answer is no. But they will probably move him to Buffalo at some point to make them happy.

[John_Havok]

The simple answer is no. But they will probably move him to Buffalo at some point to make them happy.

 

It would be an increase of pitching skill from 1-5 from opposing teams. In AA he may face a teams best pitching prospect in one game but then nothing but an assortment of career minor leaguers who've never sniffed the majors in others.

 

At least at AAA he would get a more consistent challenge

[TheHurl]

Have to keep Vlad right where he is. The Blue Jays are quite bad and even though he would help this team would be way better off saving that extra year of control and selling off pieces at the deadline. Bringing him up to mainly DH and maybe play 3rd once or twice a week just doesn't make any sense.

 

Again...bringing him up now would not change when we lose him. You must play 6 full seasons (with a season being 172 days) to reach free agency. Do I need to pin this.

[AdamGreenwood]

Dangle 100 million/ten year deal. Like the Phillies did with Kingery.

That way we have no incentive to keep him in the minors, and he can come up right away, without us losing anything.

 

The alternative is Vladdy stays in the minors for another year or so, and maybe gets hurt, with no guarantees of anything.

[John_Havok]

Last 10 games triple slash for Vlad Jr. ...

 

.526/.568/1.410

 

3 walks, 3 K.

 

3 HR, 9 RBI, 2 SB

 

 

The bat is as ready as it will ever be

[burlingtonbandit]

It would be an increase of pitching skill from 1-5 from opposing teams. In AA he may face a teams best pitching prospect in one game but then nothing but an assortment of career minor leaguers who've never sniffed the majors in others.

 

At least at AAA he would get a more consistent challenge

 

Not to mention the bullpens are way better. You actually have prospects in the bullpen in AAA while AA is basically all scrubs.

[Slade]

People really want to bring him up? His defense needs a lot of work.

[TheHurl]

People really want to bring him up? His defense needs a lot of work.

 

And long term the difference between learning it in the bigs and learning it in the minors is?

 

I find it interesting that two people in the front office have now said he has to learn to be a better teammate and no one has talked about that. That would make more sense to me than his D issues, as the logical move right now would be to move his position if D is the problem.

[Bobthe4th]

And long term the difference between learning it in the bigs and learning it in the minors is?

 

We already have two 3B in the majors. Until Donaldson is traded / injured, Vlad would be playing 1B/DH if called up (likely replacing Morales).

 

September call up and starting 3B in 2019 is still my preference. It'd be disappointing if he wasn't called up until this time next year for service time reasons.

 

I find it interesting that two people in the front office have now said he has to learn to be a better teammate and no one has talked about that. That would make more sense to me than his D issues, as the logical move right now would be to move his position if D is the problem.

 

He was an outfielder when he was signed, he's already had his position moved. He's still learning 3B and the front office must believe he can stick there.

[BTS]

We already have two 3B in the majors. Until Donaldson is traded / injured, Vlad would be playing 1B/DH if called up (likely replacing Morales).

 

September call up and starting 3B in 2019 is still my preference. It'd be disappointing if he wasn't called up until this time next year for service time reasons.

 

 

 

He was an outfielder when he was signed, he's already had his position moved. He's still learning 3B and the front office must believe he can stick there.

 

I just don’t understand why you’d call him up in September if you wait that long. The reason to call him up now would be that you hope he’s an impact player immediately and can meaningfully help the playoff odds. He probably doesn’t do that in September, and at that point you just have to hold him out the last month of the season and two weeks in April next year to push his service time back. September call up is the one course of action that makes zero sense to me, and yet it seems to be what everyone wants to do.

[Pendleton]

I wonder if the Jays will be in on the next stud Cuban prospect, Victor Victor Mesa - along with his brother Victor Mesa Jr. Their parents don't seem very creative, but apparently the older brother is the country's top prospect since Moncada.

[Bobthe4th]

I just don’t understand why you’d call him up in September if you wait that long. The reason to call him up now would be that you hope he’s an impact player immediately and can meaningfully help the playoff odds. He probably doesn’t do that in September, and at that point you just have to hold him out the last month of the season and two weeks in April next year to push his service time back. September call up is the one course of action that makes zero sense to me, and yet it seems to be what everyone wants to do.

 

Because the minor league season is over by then, Vlad deserves a call up and will have had 3 more months of 3B practice by then, and if he’s going to be the starting 3B in 2019 a month long audition is a good idea.

 

We’ve had this conversation multiple times! I appreciate that you disagree.

[BTS]

Because the minor league season is over by then, Vlad deserves a call up and will have had 3 more months of 3B practice by then, and if he’s going to be the starting 3B in 2019 a month long audition is a good idea.

 

We’ve had this conversation multiple times!

 

We have, but I can’t wrap my head around you perceiving all of that as justification for punting a year of service time.

 

If the team is 15 games under 0.500 with zero shot at a WC, you call him up and burn a year of service time for a 30-day 3B ‘audition’?

 

If the team goes on a run and is 10 games over 0.500 in mid June, you still wait until September, then burn the year anyway and call him up?

[Laika]

Yikes, f*** making him a September call up.

[Jimcanuck]

So who are the Sept callups and how can one justify calling them up and not Vlad? See the plm? Not advocating one way or the other, but the optics are terrible.

[BTS]

So who are the Sept callups and how can one justify calling them up and not Vlad? See the plm? Not advocating one way or the other, but the optics are terrible.

 

Most prospects aren't good enough that you expect them to be up permanently after their first call-up. Almost all of these guys will spend years being optioned multiple times. Vlad isn't that. Literally trading one year of prime Vlad for 30 days of current Vlad would be completely absurd.

[Bobthe4th]

We have, but I can’t wrap my head around you perceiving all of that as justification for punting a year of service time.

 

If the team is 15 games under 0.500 with zero shot at a WC, you call him up and burn a year of service time for a 30-day 3B ‘audition’?

 

IMO the ideal situation is that Vlad is the starting 3B in 2019. I don’t think that happens if he’s called up now (because he won’t play 3B). Handing him the job going into 2019 with him never starting in the majors at 3B is a risk.

 

IMO if it wasn’t for positional uncertainty he should be called up now. But if he’s not called up in September it’s solely for service time reasons.

 

If he’s called up now it burns a year, but a month in September is a lot easier to reclaim if it’s still an issue over the next 5/6 years (i.e. no extension or rule changes).

 

If the team goes on a run and is 10 games over 0.500 in mid June, you still wait until September, then burn the year anyway and call him up?

 

I think his development is more important than making the 2nd wildcard this season, or service time considerations.

 

If JD is traded or long term injured at any point then yes call him up, but if there’s no space at 3B then no.

[Jimcanuck]

Most prospects aren't good enough that you expect them to be up permanently after their first call-up. Almost all of these guys will spend years being optioned multiple times. Vlad isn't that. Literally trading one year of prime Vlad for 30 days of current Vlad would be completely absurd.

 

I get that..... optics are incredibly s***** though. A contract now is the way to go and call him up the same day.

[Bobthe4th]

Yikes, f*** making him a September call up.

 

It shouldn’t be too onerous to reclaim 30 days service time from a September call up. When he eats himself off 3B then send him to the minors for a month to learn 1B, haha.

 

Alternatively sign him to an extension, or just option him for a fortnight for the next 3 seasons.

[John_Havok]

Sounds like a great debate to have on a podcast

[BTS]

IMO the ideal situation is that Vlad is the starting 3B in 2019. I don’t think that happens if he’s called up now (because he won’t play 3B). Handing him the job going into 2019 with him never starting in the majors at 3B is a risk.

 

IMO if it wasn’t for positional uncertainty he should be called up now. But if he’s not called up in September it’s solely for service time reasons.

 

If he’s called up now it burns a year, but a month in September is a lot easier to reclaim if it’s still an issue over the next 5/6 years (i.e. no extension or rule changes).

 

 

 

I think his development is more important than making the 2nd wildcard this season, or service time considerations.

 

If JD is traded or long term injured at any point then yes call him up, but if there’s no space at 3B then no.

 

You really believe that a) 30 MLB games in September makes such a large difference in a decision about him as a 3B in 2019 that the it's worth punting a full year of mid-prime service time to acquire that information, and his long term outlook at 3B is significantly altered by his usage over the next 3 months? So playing 3B twice a week in MLB for the rest of the season will hurt his development significantly relative to playing 3B 5 days a week in the minors? You must really be sweating a lat strain or something that takes him out for a couple months, as you'd believe it would derail his entire career trajectory.

[BTS]

It shouldn’t be too onerous to reclaim 30 days service time from a September call up. When he eats himself off 3B then send him to the minors for a month to learn 1B, haha.

 

Alternatively sign him to an extension, or just option him for a fortnight for the next 3 seasons.

 

Jesus Christ. Imagine the s*** show if the Cubs inexplicably burned 30 days of Bryant in 2015, then optioned him for two weeks at the start of 2016, 2017, and 2018.

[Bobthe4th]

Jesus Christ. Imagine the s*** show if the Cubs inexplicably burned 30 days of Bryant in 2015, then optioned him for two weeks at the start of 2016, 2017, and 2018.

 

Nonsense. Everyone knew they held Bryant back solely back for service time reasons, and they were critised at the time. Splitting it into 3 (or more) stints wouldn’t make a significant difference, especially if they didn’t do it at the beginning of a season. Everyone would still know it’s a service time issue.

[spats]

People really want to bring him up? His defense needs a lot of work.

 

So does Donaldson's.

[BTS]

Nonsense. Everyone knew they held Bryant back solely back for service time reasons, and they were critised at the time. Splitting it into 3 (or more) stints wouldn’t make a significant difference, especially if they didn’t do it at the beginning of a season. Everyone would still know it’s a service time issue.

 

You're dismissing the difference between holding back a player who has never played in the majors, and optioning an established MVP caliber player, and the best player on your WS winning team. You really think that optioning Bryant in 2017 and then again in 2018 would have received the same magnitude of response as delaying his debut?

[Bobthe4th]

You really believe that a) 30 MLB games in September makes such a large difference in a decision about him as a 3B in 2019 that the it's worth punting a full year of mid-prime service time to acquire that information.

 

See above re punting a year, and yes I think it’s important.

 

b)his long term outlook at 3B is significantly altered by his usage over the next 3 months? So playing 3B twice a week in MLB for the rest of the season will hurt his development significantly relative to playing 3B 5 days a week in the minors? You must really be sweating a lat strain or something that takes him out for a couple months, as you'd believe it would derail his entire career trajectory.

 

Yes, there’s still a chance he won’t be able to play 3B in the majors. If he doesn’t succeed there he can be at 1B instead. But obviously he’s more valuable as a competent 3B than a 1B.

 

Your injury scenario doesn’t make any sense, it’d just delay his call up.

 

If he was called up now, you’re giving up on him playing 3B, while wasting service time this year as a (negative) bonus.

[BTS]

See above re punting a year, and yes I think it’s important.

 

 

 

Yes, there’s still a chance he won’t be able to play 3B in the majors. If he doesn’t succeed there he can be at 1B instead. But obviously he’s more valuable as a competent 3B than a 1B.

 

Your injury scenario doesn’t make any sense, it’d just delay his call up.

 

If he was called up now, you’re giving up on him playing 3B, while wasting service time this year as a (negative) bonus.

 

What? Why? I don't think he's a 3B, but spending 3 extra months playing 3B twice a week instead of 5 times isn't going to meaningfully change his outlook at the position.

 

Are you drunk right now or something? Because suggesting that the team call him up for meaningless baseball in September and then make up the service time by optioning him for two weeks in 2019, 2020, and 2021 is one of the dumbest things I've ever read on this forum.

[Laika]

Bob, this is painful