Reyes Optimum Position?

[BigCecil]

Reyes - oft injured talented offensive catalyst that is below avg defensively. Plus arm and showing a bit better range 2015.

 

Ignoring whether he would willingly move positions or not and what team he would be on, is 2nd or the OF the optimum option for him as he ages?

[GD]

Second Base or LF. LF makes more sense even though he will be running around more on the turf. Plus we have Travis at second base assuming hes the guy long term. But we need someone useful at SS replacing him. Not f***ing Ryan Goins.

 

Brad Miller plsplsplspls

[BigCecil]

Second Base or LF. LF makes more sense even though he will be running around more on the turf. Plus we have Travis at second base assuming hes the guy long term. But we need someone useful at SS replacing him. Not f***ing Ryan Goins.

 

Not suggesting he is still with Jays. Im wondering what people think assessing his value as an asset on the basis he would agree to move positions for another team.

 

We have Travis at 2nd who looks like he can stick (with reasonable probability), and we don't have a better option @ SS right now.

[GD]

Yea hes a guy I have liked for a couple years. Once they traded Nick Franklin I assumed he was off the table.

 

They seem to like Chris Taylor enough to shift Miller to CF

[BigCecil]

I don't think we can trade him for any value unless we eat a lot of salary which I don't see happening. Dumping him on someone remains an option. But we really have nobody capable of playing SS everyday or LF for that matter. So until that changes Reyes needs to remain at SS.

 

agree with all of that. Keep hoping AA can backfill with reasonable SS option and pull a VW Version 2.0 like he did with Angels. I like Reyes. Just not at SS and he is too $. $44mm more after 2015 with the pitching vacuum we have just seems wrong.

[jays_fever]

They seem to like Chris Taylor enough to shift Miller to CF

 

Who don't they just throw out there?

[burlingtonbandit]

thing about Reyes is he kills you defensively at SS but his bat doesn't play at all in LF and defense is still going to be an issue at 2B. I would just eat 10 million and trade him if you can. Next 2 years he is barely going to be above replacement level.

[GD]

thing about Reyes is he kills you defensively at SS but his bat doesn't play at all in LF and defense is still going to be an issue at 2B. I would just eat 10 million and trade him if you can. Next 2 years he is barely going to be above replacement level.

 

We understood that you don't like Reyes the first 65 posts you made.

[burlingtonbandit]

We understood that you don't like Reyes the first 65 posts you made.

 

You know what GD, have I ever told you Reyes is a bad baseball player?

[Deadpool]

You know what GD, have I ever told you Reyes is a bad baseball player?

 

You are wrong. Argue that he's overpaid, sure, but he's a better than average baseball player, even when his sub-optimal defence is taken into account.

[GD]

Deadpool is right. ​sig me

[GD]

SS.

 

Really? Not 2B? DRS thinks Reyes is a -4.14 run/150 fielder at SS in a large enough sample.

[GD]

Strength is his arm. Some of that is wasted at 2B.

If you have two equal fielders and one has better range but worse arm, you put better range at 2B and better arm at SS.

 

Is that altered by if your 3B has better range than your 1B, or vice versa?

[burlingtonbandit]

You are wrong. Argue that he's overpaid, sure, but he's a better than average baseball player, even when his sub-optimal defence is taken into account.

 

Umm no he's not. If he's barely an average hitter and his defense is horrific he is worse than average. If you were to look at his stats last year and use DRS instead of UZR Reyes is roughly a 2.4 Win player. Add in another year of decline and I wouldn't call that average.

[burlingtonbandit]

Could the reason why Reyes always grades worse in DRS than UZR because UZR fails to take into account plays that are not balls hit off the bat, like Stolen base attempts and relay throws? Reyes seems to be one of the worst at tagging runners and dropped throws like the one in the last week.

 

DRS has Reyes at -39 runs while UZR is -1 for his career.

[GD]

Umm no he's not. If he's barely an average hitter and his defense is horrific he is worse than average. If you were to look at his stats last year and use DRS instead of UZR Reyes is roughly a 2.4 Win player. Add in another year of decline and I wouldn't call that average.

 

2.4 WAR = he'd need to decline by 0.4 fWAR to even sniff average, but that's not even including the fact that you don't look at one year and then slap a decline on a guy to project him.

[BigBounceyBlueBalls]

Best posistion, leaving this team! Lol

[glory]

I still don't understand what was wrong with Yunel at short making 5mil.

[ElNik2013]

I still don't understand what was wrong with Yunel at short making 5mil.

 

 

 

Apparently, because he made a homophobic slur or someteeng..

[burlingtonbandit]

2.4 WAR = he'd need to decline by 0.4 fWAR to even sniff average, but that's not even including the fact that you don't look at one year and then slap a decline on a guy to project him.

 

Well Zips has him at 1.9 WAR and Steamer for 1.7 so there ya go.

[GD]

Well Zips has him at 1.9 WAR and Steamer for 1.7 so there ya go.

 

RoS+accumulated YTD?

 

By FGDC, he'd be at 1.9 WAR (almost average) in 385 PA, not near a full season. Above average player.

 

if you want to debate the value that his injuries cost him, that's another thing

[NorthOf49]

Is that altered by if your 3B has better range than your 1B, or vice versa?

No, because more hitters hit right-handed. If there was an equal distribution of balls around the infield, then arm would be the only determiner of 1B/3B positioning.

[BigCecil]

No, because more hitters hit right-handed. If there was an equal distribution of balls around the infield, then arm would be the only determiner of 1B/3B positioning.

 

hmmm....So if more hitters are RH...and you have 2 equal fielders except for arm and range...you put the arm @ SS and range @ 2nd. (JFaS)

 

Yet more balls will be hit to left side. The arm doesn't help a lot if the range doesn't get you to balls.

 

On the other hand I guess you have a better chance of making plays that you do get to with the arm.

[Key22]

Reyes is untradeable - Vernon Wells 2.0 so may as well stop whining and hope he can still offer something with the bat and steal some bases - he had a bad ankle injury - that hurt his D and the turf didn't help. He's solid enough just being paid more than double the money you'd like to be paying him. On the other hand we're paying EE and Bautista $7-10 million less than they are worth so overall it's not too terrible. The Yankees won WS titles with Jeter who was terrible on defense so Reyes can stay where he is. Pitching wins - fix that problem and most of the the other problems can be ignored. You can win a WS with Reyes as your shortstop - the Jays won with Manny Lee for heaven sake.

 

The team has the position players and the defense and the line-up to win. We have a murderer's row in right handed power - there is speed. From offensive and defensive standpoint this team should be one of the 5 or so best in baseball - for Pete Sake AA get some pitching! Phil Coke - ok - an upgrade to Francis. He's trying.

[burlingtonbandit]

RoS+accumulated YTD?

 

By FGDC, he'd be at 1.9 WAR (almost average) in 385 PA, not near a full season. Above average player.

 

if you want to debate the value that his injuries cost him, that's another thing

 

And that is using UZR which was my point in the first place. Using DRS he would be much worse. He's already at -3 DRS this year in 160 innings.

[BigCecil]

Reyes is untradeable - Vernon Wells 2.0 so may as well stop whining and hope he can still offer something with the bat and steal some bases - he had a bad ankle injury - that hurt his D and the turf didn't help. He's solid enough just being paid more than double the money you'd like to be paying him. On the other hand we're paying EE and Bautista $7-10 million less than they are worth so overall it's not too terrible. The Yankees won WS titles with Jeter who was terrible on defense so Reyes can stay where he is. Pitching wins - fix that problem and most of the the other problems can be ignored. You can win a WS with Reyes as your shortstop - the Jays won with Manny Lee for heaven sake.

 

The team has the position players and the defense and the line-up to win. We have a murderer's row in right handed power - there is speed. From offensive and defensive standpoint this team should be one of the 5 or so best in baseball - for Pete Sake AA get some pitching! Phil Coke - ok - an upgrade to Francis. He's trying.

 

This has nothing to do with what I was discussing...my question was assuming he would be moved. And its far from impossible depending on position and amount of salary we eat. At this point its not likely given we have no alternative to play SS.

[GD]

And that is using UZR which was my point in the first place. Using DRS he would be much worse. He's already at -3 DRS this year in 160 innings.

 

You're making me do math before noon. Not cool. Not. Cool.

 

Well, using a 160 IP sample of defense, literally 30 plays, is dumn. So, substituting his career DRS/Game (including your 160 IP sample) into this season and his FGDC projection leaves him at 0.1 WAR or so for this year and would leave him at 1.3 WAR or so over the FGDC projection of 72 games. Funny enough, his DRS/game is better than his projected UZR/game. When you extrapolate that to a full season, that's 2.7 fWAR w/ DRS.

 

Like I said. If you want to debate the value his injury cost him, that's another thing; Reyes does not provide above average value (defined as cost of a win * 2 fWAR or so). However, he is an above average player when he does play, which is what we're debating right now. Reyes can be projected to be a well above average player, probably by 0.7 wins or so, for the rest of the season. DRS or UZR. A league average hitting SS with speed is more often than not a valuable commodity (not with Reyes' contract, but again, different issue).

[JohnnyLonghorn]

Reyes had a horrible year defensively last year. He isnt a stud SS by any stretch but I expect him to play his position better than he did last year and he has. Ideally you'd like him at 2b but this team has no viable SS options and thus this topic is pretty much mute.

[BigBounceyBlueBalls]

Has he ever played left field? Could he even?

[jays4life19]

Has he ever played left field? Could he even?

 

Could he? Probably. Should he? f*** no.