Jeff Hoffman stud thread

[HERPDERP]

we should all ask KingKat

[KingKat]

we should all ask KingKat

 

???

[DuckDuckGose]

Maddux had a career .281 BABIP while the average year's league rate for 1986-2008 was .290. He was successful because he got strikeouts and ground balls and limited walks.

 

Anyway, there isn't really another way to skin a cat in terms of basic outcomes and the strikeout. The strikeout is a very efficient way of getting an out since it works almost every time.

 

He had a career 6k/9, he was successful because he had great command and could mix speeds better than anyone. I'm not saying that's Hoffman but his stuff is still there he just isn't using it as often. I don't see why anyone should care considering he's in A ball coming off TJS.

[DuckDuckGose]

It does, this just isn't the best example. There is no evidence here that what the Blue Jays are doing to Hoffman will lead to him being a weak contact collector. It is a very hard skill to harness. Easier to tell the guy with two 70 pitches to let it rip.

 

There is no evidence to suggest that the Jays wont let him throw his best stuff, he's a little more upright and throws a little bit more across his body but the CB and FB are just as good as they always were, the key take away is that he intentionally isn't doing it every pitch. So what?

[Boxcar]

Certainly is; http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=104&position=P. Big K #'s (just less balls in play in general) increases your chances to be successful but there are more than 1 way to skin a cat.

 

Don't worry guys, Greg Maddux could do it, and if he can, so can anyone.

[DuckDuckGose]

That was a lot of strikeouts for the 80s and 90s though. Maddux's strikeout rates were consistently well above the league average. He did not rely especially on letting the batter put the ball in play early on the count.

 

 

Well, Kiley McDaniel says he's not throwing his best possible stuff. That's what we're reacting to. I agree that it may be overblown, as you suggest.

 

Maddux relied on hittign his spots and keeping hitters off balance by changing speeds. He's said it over and over again. This is my favourite Maddox anecdote;

 

First, Maddux was convinced no hitter could tell the speed of a pitch with any meaningful accuracy. To demonstrate, he pointed at a road a quarter-mile away and said it was impossible to tell if a car was going 55, 65 or 75 mph unless there was another car nearby to offer a point of reference.

“You just can’t do it,” he said. Sometimes hitters can pick up differences in spin. They can identify pitches if there are different releases points or if a curveball starts with an upward hump as it leaves the pitcher’s hand. But if a pitcher can change speeds, every hitter is helpless, limited by human vision.

“Except,” Maddux said, “for that [expletive] Tony Gwynn.”

 

 

Now that's about where the Maddux talk should end as there is only 1 Greg Maddux and it's not Hoffman. All I'm saying is that the stuff is still there when he reaches for it and it's A ball. As long as he's getting the K's when he turns it on (and by all accounts that's exactly what he is doing) then I don't care if he takes some velo off of pitches or tries to get GB's; he's going to need those skills in the MLB too. May as well practice them now.

[DuckDuckGose]

Don't worry guys, Greg Maddux could do it, and if he can, so can anyone.

 

Where did I say that? It's a skill to induce weak contact, it's a rare one. Hoffman is in the minors, I don't care that he's working on things. That's what I would expect him to be doing.

[Boxcar]

Where did I say that? It's a skill to induce weak contact, it's a rare one. Hoffman is in the minors, I don't care that he's working on things. That's what I would expect him to be doing.

 

Hoffman has the skill to miss bats already, why try to focus on acquiring a skill that hardly any pitcher is capable of? It doesn't make sense.

 

Kiley's observations are disturbing and I'd really love to dismiss them but Aaron Sanchez exists. Who knows what this org values in pitchers.

[DuckDuckGose]

How do you know that Maddux induced weak contact though and what are you defining as weak contact?

 

I guess I more mean batted ball profiles, being able to get the GB for the DP when you need it, being able to keep the ball in the park (which has more to do with the kind of contact you give up) that kind of thing. Some pitchers just get hit harder.

[DuckDuckGose]

Hoffman has the skill to miss bats already, why try to focus on acquiring a skill that hardly any pitcher is capable of? It doesn't make sense.

 

Kiley's observations are disturbing and I'd really love to dismiss them but Aaron Sanchez exists. Who knows what this org values in pitchers.

 

It makes sense to work on getting the kind of contact you want without having to throw your best stuff. If he's throwing 5+ pitches an AB he isn't going to make it very deep in to games, especially if he is getting fatigued. Let's not forget he's also coming off TJS; he may not have the arm strength to throw his best stuff every time. It may be out of necessity. The thing I disliked about the article was that it didn't account for the fact that Hoffman is doing it intentionally. When he does reach back the stuff is still there and he's missing bats with it. Obviously I'd like to see more swings and K's from any pitcher but the article made it seem like he's in some rigid Blue Jays development program that doesn't seem to exist outside of Sanchez.

[Laika]

Well I believe in the Jays development staff, for the most part they have done a good job developing our pitchers (including those that have left us)

 

Seriously? I guess they've probably drafted pitching well, how much of this is a product of simply taking lots of pitchers I don't know, but I don't really think there's much evidence for this regime being any good at "developing" arms. We've seen a lot of guys scuffle at various levels (Labourt, Tirado, Sanchez, Smoral, Norris) including the big leagues (Hutchison, Boyd, Castro, Sanchez, Norris). Essentially everyone but Stroman and Osuna could be better, or could have been better here. We've also seen several guys leave the organization and seemingly improve (Henderson, Syndergaard, DeSclafani, Sam Dyson, Graveman?).

 

Basically, if the Blue Jays were actually any good at "developing" pitching, then they'd have better pitching right now.

[sachmo55]

Where did I say that? It's a skill to induce weak contact, it's a rare one. Hoffman is in the minors, I don't care that he's working on things. That's what I would expect him to be doing.

 

Most elite pitchers don't show an exceptional ability to prevent hard contact, not sure how Hoffman will be any different in that regard.

[BTS]

You know one guy doing it doesn't make it a skill right?..

 

Dallas Keuchel

[GD]

Dallas Keuchel

 

Remember when we tried to get him from Wilko for a third? good times

[tercet]

njh you are the biggest bandwagoner in the history of bandwagoners

 

For the last few months you've been basically calling me an idiot for saying how I had concerns about hoffmans k/9 going back to his college days, and throughout hoffmans first month or so.

 

Now in 24 hrs since the Fangraphs Hoffman comes out, now you are all of a sudden in the OMG WTF R TEH JAYS DOING camp!

 

lolz

[BTS]

Remember when we tried to get him from Wilko for a third? good times

 

In hindsight, we probably should have offered a bit more.

[GD]

njh you are the biggest bandwagoner in the history of bandwagoners

 

For the last few months you've been basically calling me an idiot for saying how I had concerns about hoffmans k/9 going back to his college days, and throughout hoffmans first month or so.

 

Now in 24 hrs since the Fangraphs Hoffman comes out, now you are all of a sudden in the OMG WTF R TEH JAYS DOING camp!

 

lolz

 

Ooh can you use 50k this time when you spell out "f*** NJH"

[GD]

In hindsight, we probably should have offered a bit more.

 

It was never going to happen it was wilko who cares

[BTS]

You tell him tercet!

[tercet]

Ooh can you use 50k this time when you spell out "f*** NJH"

Maybe going to Fallsview on sat to play 5/10.. If things go well maybe ill try, only gonna bring 5k

[Laika]

njh you are the biggest bandwagoner in the history of bandwagoners

 

For the last few months you've been basically calling me an idiot for saying how I had concerns about hoffmans k/9 going back to his college days, and throughout hoffmans first month or so.

 

Now in 24 hrs since the Fangraphs Hoffman comes out, now you are all of a sudden in the OMG WTF R TEH JAYS DOING camp!

 

lolz

 

I feel sorry for everyone that is unfortunate enough to interact with you in real life.

 

Make no mistake, I am firmly on the Hoffman bandwagon, just disappointed that Toronto wants to possibly give him Sanchez' s***** tall and fall mechanics. I'm sure you predicted Toronto's developmental decision when you looked at his K rate as a sophomore though.

[tercet]

I feel sorry for everyone that is unfortunate enough to interact with you in real life.

 

Make no mistake, I am firmly on the Hoffman bandwagon, just disappointed that Toronto wants to possibly give him Sanchez' s***** tall and fall mechanics. I'm sure you predicted Toronto's developmental decision when you looked at his K rate as a sophomore though.

 

yes ty for the compliment its nice to see you haven't changed in 5 years lol

[FrozenRopes]

AA, good at analyzing talent, bad at all else.

[Boxcar]

I feel sorry for everyone that is unfortunate enough to interact with you in real life.

 

Make no mistake, I am firmly on the Hoffman bandwagon, just disappointed that Toronto wants to possibly give him Sanchez' s***** tall and fall mechanics. I'm sure you predicted Toronto's developmental decision when you looked at his K rate as a sophomore though.

 

3/10, tercet wins

[Laika]

3/10, tercet wins

 

tercet always wins...

[Nox]

tercet always wins...

 

Or does NJH always lose?

[GD]

Or does NJH always lose?

 

Mike Zunino is a bonafide stud, that can't be right.

[Laika]

Or does NJH always lose?

 

There is no Ying, without Yang - Boxcar8

[Laika]

Mike Zunino is a bonafide stud, that can't be right.

 

Let me know when your balls drop and I'll fight you IRL

[Spanky99]

There is no Ying, without Yang - Boxcar8

 

There is a Zing!!

Edited July 17, 2015 by Spanky99