Nats sign Casey Janssen

[Jimcanuck]

Lind's contract was cheap for his production? Mayberry as a platoon is very cheap, he talked his way out of here.

 

Lind is soon to be 32 yrs old. Well past his peak. What Lind will show up, the 1.5 WAR 2013 and 2014 version or the negative WAR 2010 to 2012 version? He's an injury risk. He's mouthy.

 

His talent level is widely available.

 

Lind gone? I say, who gives a faaawwwwkkkk!

 

I get it, you are emotionally attached to the big doofus.

[Spanky99]

How is it absurd? Do you think the Jays would be better of with Lind et al over Donaldson et al?

 

Not at all we were discussing 2nd base, and he suggested that move had impact.

[Spanky99]

Lind is soon to be 32 yrs old. Well past his peak. What Lind will show up, the 1.5 WAR 2013 and 2014 version or the negative WAR 2010 to 2012 version? He's an injury risk. He's mouthy.

 

His talent level is widely available.

 

Lind gone? I say, who gives a faaawwwwkkkk!

 

I get it, you are emotionally attached to the big doofus.

 

lol check out career splits dumbass, he finally was used correctly.

[Rusty_Savage]

Not at all we were discussing 2nd base, and he suggested that move had impact.

 

Haha fair enough. Missed that

[Rusty_Savage]

Anyone who thinks the Lind trade was a good idea is not very smart. When used correctly he is very valuable.

[Gorlak]

That's what they did though. You are all hung up on losing Lind and while his bat was pretty good, you have to accept that AA had decided to either get what he could in return or decline his option.

 

Here's how things went down:

 

Oct 28th: Blue Jays claim Justin Smoak off waivers from Mariners.

 

Nov 1st: Blue Jays trade Adam Lind to Brewers for P Marco Estrada.

 

That's the Smoak/Lind connection.

 

Here's what AA said about the trade:

 

AA had decided to trade Lind before he claimed Smoak. The versatility created is good, but it just means more AB's for utility infielders and 4th outfielders, If it keeps everybody healthy it will be worth it(I have my doubts). The DH spot against righties will take a step back since only Bautista and EE are better at hitting righties and EE will play everyday regardless. Most of Lind's would have been AB's will go to Smoak and Navarro as things stand. Getting a utility infielder that can play short well would have been a better call.

[Gorlak]

Lawrie was traded as part of the package to get Donaldson.

 

 

Blue Jays likely view Estrada as replacing Happ, at a lower cost and without whining if moved to the BP.

 

Saunders will replace Cabrera in LF.

 

And they did save money over all with these moves. I think they also got better, but hey, that's secondary.

 

 

Happ would have been moved regardless because of his good season and only having a year of control. Estrada+Smoak would have cost the same as Lind.

[Gorlak]

Lind is soon to be 32 yrs old. Well past his peak. What Lind will show up, the 1.5 WAR 2013 and 2014 version or the negative WAR 2010 to 2012 version? He's an injury risk. He's mouthy.

 

His talent level is widely available.

 

Lind gone? I say, who gives a faaawwwwkkkk!

 

I get it, you are emotionally attached to the big doofus.

 

His talent level is not widely available, If it was the Jays wouldn't have signed Smoak. Lind as a platoon player was the 8th most valuable DH in baseball, A full season Platoon with Valencia would be top 5. I get the versatility argument and you could argue moving him is not a big deal, But saying he's easily replaced isn't true.

[Gorlak]

No chance Estrada is more valuable as a bullpen piece. Although the Brewers will misuse Lind and his WAR will be lower because of it.

[Spanky99]

No chance Estrada is more valuable as a bullpen piece. Although the Brewers will misuse Lind and his WAR will be lower because of it.

 

This remains to be seen.

[Gorlak]

This remains to be seen.

 

True, but there was only about 20 relievers that valuable in all of baseball last season. My guess is Estrada will be worth like .6 WAR. As for the Brewers, They plan on having Lind hit Lefties and play first, so he will only be worth about the same.

[Atothe]

I love how people love to dismiss the fact that turf is really bad to play on. Colby and lind have a legitimate right to blame their injuries on the turf. Good luck to both

[glory]

Using Navarro as DH against RHP will eliminate some (or most) of the good in trading Lind, but if they are actually smart and strictly use Edwin in that role while keeping the DH spot occasionally free to rest key players throughout the season, then they did the right thing (trading Lind) and it's not even debatable. How many teams have strict DH's? Not many. It's a position that is and should be used to rotate players around and give guys a breather over the course of a season. If you have a David Ortiz type, then that's when you have a strict DH. The Jays happen to have one in Edwin, so there was no point in having another in Lind that has chronic injury issues, can't play defense, and is useless against one side of the plate. At least with Smoak he will provide defensive value with some HR power and the ability to draw walks for 6m less.

 

The Jays will miss Lind's bat against rhp, no question about that, but as far as money saved, roster construction, and making the most out of the DH position, they had to trade Lind. If the team decides to use Navarro at DH against rhp, then that doesn't make the Lind trade any less sensible. It just means they are clueless about how bad Navarro really is.

[jays76]

His talent level is not widely available, If it was the Jays wouldn't have signed Smoak. Lind as a platoon player was the 8th most valuable DH in baseball, A full season Platoon with Valencia would be top 5. I get the versatility argument and you could argue moving him is not a big deal, But saying he's easily replaced isn't true.

 

You nailed it, that Lind/Valencia platoon would've been phenomenal! Personally I would've traded Lind if I was getting a bit more back (say packaging Lind with pieces or prospects to net something significant). I'm obviously hoping for the best from Estrada/Smoak but they both have serious potential to be disastrous. At least with Lind we knew what were getting (back pain and a few missed games included of course). The s***** thing is on paper he looked to have finally have found his perfect platoon partner in Valencia and could have been utilized perfectly in terms of situationally and also to provide adequate rest for his back.

[Spanky99]

True, but there was only about 20 relievers that valuable in all of baseball last season. My guess is Estrada will be worth like .6 WAR. As for the Brewers, They plan on having Lind hit Lefties and play first, so he will only be worth about the same.

 

lol...Lind will put up 1.5 to 2 war, that trade was gross.

[Jimcanuck]

His talent level is not widely available, If it was the Jays wouldn't have signed Smoak. Lind as a platoon player was the 8th most valuable DH in baseball, A full season Platoon with Valencia would be top 5. I get the versatility argument and you could argue moving him is not a big deal, But saying he's easily replaced isn't true.

 

Disagree. Finding a top 5 DH is difficult yes, finding two guys with favourable splits to share DH duties is not.

[Spanky99]

Disagree. Finding a top 5 DH is difficult yes, finding two guys with favourable splits to share DH duties is not.

 

Amen.

[Gorlak]

Using Navarro as DH against RHP will eliminate some (or most) of the good in trading Lind, but if they are actually smart and strictly use Edwin in that role while keeping the DH spot occasionally free to rest key players throughout the season, then they did the right thing (trading Lind) and it's not even debatable. How many teams have strict DH's? Not many. It's a position that is and should be used to rotate players around and give guys a breather over the course of a season. If you have a David Ortiz type, then that's when you have a strict DH. The Jays happen to have one in Edwin, so there was no point in having another in Lind that has chronic injury issues, can't play defense, and is useless against one side of the plate. At least with Smoak he will provide defensive value with some HR power and the ability to draw walks for 6m less.

 

The Jays will miss Lind's bat against rhp, no question about that, but as far as money saved, roster construction, and making the most out of the DH position, they had to trade Lind. If the team decides to use Navarro at DH against rhp, then that doesn't make the Lind trade any less sensible. It just means they are clueless about how bad Navarro really is.

 

I would say they didn't save any money, Smoak has no defensive value(Or any really), and If EE is a DH strictly it means the Jays don't have a 1st basemen worth replacement value and the versatility advantage goes away. They will DH Navarro because he is the best option against righties, sad but true. I would rather Valencia be the full time first basemen than having Smoak play against righties.

[Gorlak]

Disagree. Finding a top 5 DH is difficult yes, finding two guys with favourable splits to share DH duties is not.

 

Why don't all teams do it then? Only 7 teams got +WAR from DH last season, 8 teams with -WAR. Jays may have added themselves to that group if EE plays 1st full time.

[Gorlak]

lol...Lind will put up 1.5 to 2 war, that trade was gross.

 

That trade was gross, but I would bet money he won't put up 1.5 WAR as full time first basemen.

[Gorlak]

You nailed it, that Lind/Valencia platoon would've been phenomenal! Personally I would've traded Lind if I was getting a bit more back (say packaging Lind with pieces or prospects to net something significant). I'm obviously hoping for the best from Estrada/Smoak but they both have serious potential to be disastrous. At least with Lind we knew what were getting (back pain and a few missed games included of course). The s***** thing is on paper he looked to have finally have found his perfect platoon partner in Valencia and could have been utilized perfectly in terms of situationally and also to provide adequate rest for his back.

 

Would have been an ideal situation. Seems to me like a AA came to a conclusion before he had a problem, same thing he did with Napoli.

[ElNik2013]

Happ would have been moved regardless because of his good season and only having a year of control. Estrada+Smoak would have cost the same as Lind.

 

I would have no problem with keeping Lind, but getting Estrada made it easier to trade Happ.

 

As I've said already, I'm happy with the replacements to Lind/Lawrie/Happ/Cabrera.

 

When you add it all up, it's a better team at a lower co$t.

[Spanky99]

I would have no problem with keeping Lind, but getting Estrada made it easier to trade Happ.

 

As I've said already, I'm happy with the replacements to Lind/Lawrie/Happ/Cabrera.

 

When you add it all up, it's a better team at a lower co$t.

 

Yer Dumb.

[ElNik2013]

Yer Dumb.

 

 

You're smart.