Jays get Josh Donaldson for Lawrie, Graveman, Nolin and Barreto

[Smokey]

My original comment was addressed at you so you couldn't possibly be considered a wingman in this situation.

 

The main point that I was trying to make is that's it's not necessarily black and white with AA. We've seen some improvement. He seems to have a better handle on player values in general and values related to run prevention in particular. He's not making ALL of the same mistakes though he's definitely making MANY of them. I'm not willing to say that it can't work out this year. Teams win with less than optimal approaches all the time. Just because it hasn't benn happening to the Jays doesn't mean it can never happen ever. It's not a lost cause although it's definitely frustrating to see that some of the things that could have been fairly easily addressed are making things unnecesarily harder. Even some of the under the radar depth moves like picking up West and Guilmet have been ruined by pointless roster churning. There's a lot of reason for frustration but at the same the current W-L record makes the overall situation seem worse than it is. It doesn't reflect the run differential and probably isn't a good measure of this team's chances. If this was the late nineties when you had to be perfect just to have a chance, maybe you'd write off the season but this is one of those rare times where there's an opportunity to half-ass your way to success in the division and if it happens it will make AA seem smarter than he actually is but ultimately as a Jays fan, I don't really give a s*** about that. I'll give him credit for the good moves, blame for the bad ones and I'll take winning over anything.

 

I agree with your general sentiment that the season is far from over. Guys like Martin and Donaldson are game changers and can carry the team at times. I could definitely see the team go on a bit of a run and possibly sneak into the playoffs. The contradiction in the bolded lines and the general problem with this half-ass approach however is that you can't possibly like the team's chances in most close playoff games. The pitching is not nearly strong enough IMO and the offense isn't putting up 10 runs when going up against other teams frontline starters. They'll be behind the eight-ball from the start and it will essentially take small miracle for them to win it all.

 

The last thing this arrogant FO needs is to get lucky and make the playoffs partly due to a weak division and declare the season a success and in turn expose us to many more years of mediocrity!

[RealAccountant]

JPR put together better teams with fewer resources than AA

[BigCecil]

My original comment was addressed at you so you couldn't possibly be considered a wingman in this situation.

 

The main point that I was trying to make is that's it's not necessarily black and white with AA. We've seen some improvement. He seems to have a better handle on player values in general and values related to run prevention in particular. He's not making ALL of the same mistakes though he's definitely making MANY of them. I'm not willing to say that it can't work out this year. Teams win with less than optimal approaches all the time. Just because it hasn't benn happening to the Jays doesn't mean it can never happen ever. It's not a lost cause although it's definitely frustrating to see that some of the things that could have been fairly easily addressed are making things unnecesarily harder. Even some of the under the radar depth moves like picking up West and Guilmet have been ruined by pointless roster churning. There's a lot of reason for frustration but at the same the current W-L record makes the overall situation seem worse than it is. It doesn't reflect the run differential and probably isn't a good measure of this team's chances. If this was the late nineties when you had to be perfect just to have a chance, maybe you'd write off the season but this is one of those rare times where there's an opportunity to half-ass your way to success in the division and if it happens it will make AA seem smarter than he actually is but ultimately as a Jays fan, I don't really give a s*** about that. I'll give him credit for the good moves, blame for the bad ones and I'll take winning over anything.

 

Well said. As of Tues when I looked our run differential was +27. To put that in perspective, Houston’s was the same and they were 13 games over .500.

[Smokey]

Well said. As of Tues when I looked our run differential was +27. To put that in perspective, Houston’s was the same and they were 13 games over .500.

 

Run differential doesn't tell you the whole story though. This team has a history of losing close games and that is not a coincidence. They might end up playing above .500 the rest of the way relying mostly on their offense during the hot days of summer but that's not a recipe for success in October.

[GD]

We're the other end of the RD / 1 run game W% spectrum from the Orioles

[glory]

Poor rotation, poor bullpen, and good offense doesn't look like a recipe for success. Maybe they go on a run and win a s*** division, but a lot will have to go right, including climbing out of a hole they've dug themselves in.

[Spanky99]

yes RA, join the dark side

 

No.

[GD]

No.

 

If he wants to turn over a new leaf, why not?

[Spanky99]

You make it sound like AA is the worst GM in the league. He isn't close.

 

He made great trades in the offseason and his drafting and developing seems to be really good. If he could learn to round out a roster with decent depth he would be a much better GM. Jays can certainly make the playoffs with him in charge though. Its the awful Ownership what will kill the Jays.

 

Oh my...

 

Edit: Sure, I agree they have a s*** ton of money, but, they were given adequate amount of money to contend, those trades in 12' handcuffed the Birds and most called it.

[Spanky99]

Thanks Captain Obvious! The problem is that he's on his 6th year on the job and has shown no inclination to learn from his past mistakes.

 

But I guess he deserves another 6 years though because he's not the worst!

 

I believe he's learned from his past mistakes, the problem is those mistakes has his back against a budget wall, those 2 moves has left him with little leeway, but the moving of guys like West and Guilmet to keep shitbags like Copeland/Francis etc, around are showing his clear mis-management of the 40 man, once again.

[GD]

Francis is not a shitbag!!

 

88 xFIP-, 11.3% SwStr. He had a .429 BABIP and 58.3% LOB.

[Spanky99]

I agree with your general sentiment that the season is far from over. Guys like Martin and Donaldson are game changers and can carry the team at times. I could definitely see the team go on a bit of a run and possibly sneak into the playoffs. The contradiction in the bolded lines and the general problem with this half-ass approach however is that you can't possibly like the team's chances in most close playoff games. The pitching is not nearly strong enough IMO and the offense isn't putting up 10 runs when going up against other teams frontline starters. They'll be behind the eight-ball from the start and it will essentially take small miracle for them to win it all.

 

The last thing this arrogant FO needs is to get lucky and make the playoffs partly due to a weak division and declare the season a success and in turn expose us to many more years of mediocrity!

 

Agreed, certainly not a PS roster, if Stroman comes back by then, we could luck are way through a series or two... Hahaha...*high hopes*

[Spanky99]

If he wants to turn over a new leaf, why not?

 

ZEE/DOGG!!!

 

cf

[Spanky99]

Francis is not a shitbag!!

 

88 xFIP-, 11.3% SwStr. He had a .429 BABIP and 58.3% LOB.

 

Now look at career stats please? You know my point, regardless...can't think of the other shitbag we lost both of them for.

[burlingtonbandit]

Oh my...

 

Edit: Sure, I agree they have a s*** ton of money, but, they were given adequate amount of money to contend, those trades in 12' handcuffed the Birds and most called it.

 

I'm not saying the Jays don't have a big enough payroll. Just the Ownership in general is terrible. Ed Rogers is a lunatic and having a public company be an owner has been a disaster. Rogers also makes a s*** ton of money off the Jays with the TV deal so the Jays "losing" money is complete BS.

[Spanky99]

I'm not saying the Jays don't have a big enough payroll. Just the Ownership in general is terrible. Ed Rogers is a lunatic and having a public company be an owner has been a disaster. Rogers also makes a s*** ton of money off the Jays with the TV deal so the Jays "losing" money is complete BS.

 

No s***, and Ed Rogers was relieved of his duties concerning the Jays, since that fiasco.

[BigCecil]

Run differential doesn't tell you the whole story though. This team has a history of losing close games and that is not a coincidence. They might end up playing above .500 the rest of the way relying mostly on their offense during the hot days of summer but that's not a recipe for success in October.

 

I understand that completely...trust me. Have suffered through it with the rest of you. Its pretty amazing you can have the same differential in one category but be so far off where it really counts.

 

My point was it can be thin margin for winning and losing...and sometimes you need a bit of luck.

 

We could go on a roll...or not.

[BigCecil]

I believe he's learned from his past mistakes, the problem is those mistakes has his back against a budget wall, those 2 moves has left him with little leeway, but the moving of guys like West and Guilmet to keep shitbags like Copeland/Francis etc, around are showing his clear mis-management of the 40 man, once again.

 

Spot on...it is frustrating as a fan though. They have enough payroll to win but he is handcuffed.

 

Would have liked to see Rogers double down to get us some arms and OF depth.

[ElNik2013]

If the franchise had proper long-term planning from the very top, they either would've nixed the Marlins trade (and fired the GM for eve proposing it) or should've foreseen where the payroll would be for 2014 and 2015 and been prepared to make additional investments.

 

This is in no way to take accountability away from AA. Could anyone here see the Cards' president or owner authorizing a deal like the Marlins without being prepared to make additional investments if needed?

 

 

Anyway...

[Spanky99]

If the franchise had proper long-term planning from the very top, they either would've nixed the Marlins trade (and fired the GM for eve proposing it) or should've foreseen where the payroll would be for 2014 and 2015 and been prepared to make additional investments.

 

This is in no way to take accountability away from AA. Could anyone here see the Cards' president or owner authorizing a deal like the Marlins without being prepared to make additional investments if needed?

 

 

Anyway...

 

Probably why the Beest will be gone, AA moves to president and hires his GM, lol. I see this happening, no ********.

[burlingtonbandit]

No s***, and Ed Rogers was relieved of his duties concerning the Jays, since that fiasco.

 

So who is the acting top man now then? Who is hiring a new President?

[Spanky99]

So who is the acting top man now then? Who is hiring a new President?

 

Not sure, the dude that overseen the Jays FO, has left. Most likely the Board, or whomever they appointed, I'm not up to date on that, usually it's the outgoing President, since he's retiring, Beeston.

[ElNik2013]

Not sure, the dude that overseen the Jays FO, has left. Most likely the Board, or whomever they appointed, I'm not up to date on that, usually it's the outgoing President, since he's retiring, Beeston.

 

 

 

I always thought Mohammed's retirement after the 2013 season coupled with the "3-year window" coinciding with The Beest's had something to do with how desperate this F/O acted after the 2012 season.

[ElNik2013]

No s***, and Ed Rogers was relieved of his duties concerning the Jays, since that fiasco.

 

 

If true, this tells us how freakin' powerful The Beest is.

[Spanky99]

I always thought Mohammed's retirement after the 2013 season coupled with the "3-year window" coinciding with The Beest's had something to do with how desperate this F/O acted after the 2012 season.

 

I know a lot of folks hate the idea, but I think the Beest was in AA's ear in consideration to these moves, and I don't give a f*** what was printed or quoted.

 

P.S. I also know that AA is a dumquat and never listened to analytics prior to 13'

[Spanky99]

If true, this tells us how freakin' powerful The Beest is.

 

No, it tells you how much of an ass he made the org look like, he'll never be involved again.

[ElNik2013]

I know a lot of folks hate the idea, but I think the Beest was in AA's ear in consideration to these moves, and I don't give a f*** what was printed or quoted.

 

 

I agree to some extent. They just seemed to desperate to make moves it's as if AA was told, "go out and improve this team and do not strike out".

 

 

If you look at AA's prior MLB acquisitions, for the most part, they were guys who were under-valued and fit a long-term strategy (Morrow, Escobar, Rasmus).

[Spanky99]

I agree to some extent. They just seemed to desperate to make moves it's as if AA was told, "go out and improve this team and do not strike out".

 

 

If you look at AA's prior MLB acquisitions, for the most part, they were guys who were under-valued and fit a long-term strategy (Morrow, Escobar, Rasmus).

 

He pulled a 180 in his plan=Beeston.

 

P.S. Same thing happened to JPR

[burlingtonbandit]

If Stroman can get healthy by September the would be playoff rotation would actually be pretty good.

 

Stroman

Hutch

Trade Acquisition/Buehrle/Norris if he finds his command

[RealAccountant]

If Stroman can get healthy by September the would be playoff rotation would actually be pretty good.

 

Stroman

Hutch

Trade Acquisition/Buehrle/Norris if he finds his command

 

Teams 4 games under .500, far from planning a playoff rotation.