Saunders to replace melky?

[SAAviour]

Ok, how bout another option. What would it cost.

 

 

Mlbtr: Oscar Taveras delivered that seventh-inning homer for the Cards last night, though a few issues have made the top prospect no longer “untouchable” in the organization’s eyes, Joe Strauss of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch writes. Taveras hit .239/.278/.312 over 248 PA in this rookie season and didn’t see much action down the stretch in September or in the playoffs thus far — he has only five PH at-bats during the postseason. Perhaps of greater concern, Taveras put on 20 pounds last offseason and “his work habits have drawn attention from some veterans,” though Strauss notes that the 22-year-old “is not considered a toxic clubhouse presence.” In my opinion, even if he’s not totally “untouchable,” St. Louis would undoubtedly want a massive return if they considered dealing Taveras and it’s a very long shot that the team would so quickly give up on such an elite prospect.

[GD]

Edwin/Bautista

[BTS]

The Cards only really need help in RF and at 1B. So you have to imagine that they don't really consider a deal that doesn't involve Edwin or Bautista.

[BTS]

Edwin/Bautista

 

Great minds!

[GD]

Great minds!

 

Mine is obviously greater as I beat you by a solid 2 minutes. They don't really have a NEED at 1B though. Adams is okay there.

[BTS]

Mine is obviously greater as I beat you by a solid 2 minutes. They don't really have a NEED at 1B though. Adams is okay there.

 

It's the Cards we're talking about though. You just know they're looking at that 2 WAR and 115 wRC+ and wondering how to add a win or two.

[BTS]

Actually, Adams + Taveras for Bautista would be pretty interesting.

[GD]

It's the Cards we're talking about though. You just know they're looking at that 2 WAR and 115 wRC+ and wondering how to add a win or two.

 

I assume they'd upgrade any position if they could and let the rest sort itself out. Edwin at 1B and then Adams for a pitcher or something could work nicely.

[BTS]

C - Martin (signed with $20 million freed up by replacing Lind + Bautista with Adams + Taveras)

1B - Adams

2B -

3B - Lawrie

SS - Reyes

CF - Gose

LF - Taveras

RF -

DH - Encarnacion

 

Not bad.

[Atothe]

Actually, Adams + Taveras for Bautista would be pretty interesting.

 

Nope I want wong instead of adams

[BTS]

Nope I want wong instead of adams

 

I don't think you'd get Wong + Taveras. They're already coming out on the losing side of an Adams + Taveras deal. Probably.

[Atothe]

I don't think you'd get Wong + Taveras. They're already coming out on the losing side of an Adams + Taveras deal. Probably.

 

How? You have a healthy distrust of young pitchers but not young hitters? Matt Adams isn't any better then Lind and Taveras isn't good enough to swing that trade for Bautista. A 6 win player is hot commodity

[BTS]

How? You have a healthy distrust of young pitchers but not young hitters? Matt Adams isn't any better then Lind and Taveras isn't good enough to swing that trade for Bautista. A 6 win player is hot commodity

 

I don't feel like doing the math, but back of napkin you'd project what, 9 wins for Bautista over his contract at, say, $7 million per win? $65 million in value + comp pick minus his $28 million salary. So ~$45 million in surplus value.

 

Adams alone @ 2 wins per year eats up like $25 million of that in the next two years, with two arb years remaining after that. Then you have a bunch of cheap years on Taveras.

 

Long term you probably project a value loss for St. Louis, but it's reasonably close and Bautista is an upgrade in the present to help chase a WS. Toronto adds two cheap players who will contribute, and frees up $13 million + opens up a roster spot to trade Lind for an asset AND free up another $7 million in the process.

[Atothe]

Wait, what? The Cards are dealing their 4-6 years of cheap RF and 1B for a more expensive RF and 1B, forcing them to go out and get another RF/1B, as well?

 

Where do they sign up?

 

That more expensive rf gives you more present value for a contending team. Put your irrational hate aside

[SAAviour]

I kinda agree, doesn't seem like a deal the Cards would make, yet at the same time I could see Bautista on their team. I would trade Edwin before Bautista, though it would hurt giving up the middle of order.

 

Maybe Edwin to a 3rd team, we get Wong and Tavares, cards get ???

[SAAviour]

Perfect.

[Dick_Pole]

Payroll will be higher in 2015 than 2014. The other guy's suggestions are crazy, because it won't go up that much ... but it'll increase, year-to-year.

 

The scary part would be if internal talks have payroll staying flat or going down...regardless of the current situation for optioned, arbitration eligible and signed players.

[Atothe]

The scary part would be if internal talks have payroll staying flat or going down...regardless of the current situation for optioned, arbitration eligible and signed players.

 

It stays the same or goes up, no justification for it going down. They made a lot of money last year.

[Dick_Pole]

It stays the same or goes up, no justification for it going down. They made a lot of money last year.

 

No they didn't. Earnings per share last year for the first 6 months was $1.69. This year it's down to $1.33. What you or I or anyone else on this board considers to be "a lot of money" is a very different definition of what Bay St, Wall St and the suits running Rogers will consider to be "a lot of money". I promise you that the market sentiment on Rogers is complete disdain. If it weren't for the good dividend return no one would want Rogers stock.

[Deadpool]

No they didn't. Earnings per share last year for the first 6 months was $1.69. This year it's down to $1.33. What you or I or anyone else on this board considers to be "a lot of money" is a very different definition of what Bay St, Wall St and the suits running Rogers will consider to be "a lot of money". I promise you that the market sentiment on Rogers is complete disdain. If it weren't for the good dividend return no one would want Rogers stock.

 

I think the comment was about the Jays division of Rogers... The Jays basically print money for Rogers.

[Boxcar]

Moogy, just stop messaging me, you're on ignore, I'll save you the hassle you pedantic piece of horse turd!!

 

Lol!

[Dick_Pole]

I think the comment was about the Jays division of Rogers... The Jays basically print money for Rogers.

 

Unfortunately shareholders don't care, and the media division has been the worst performer profit-wise of them all so far this year. Jan-Jun revenues have increased from $811M to $842M from 2013 to 2014 but profit has declined from $57M to $30M. How that's split out between Jays and non-Jays activities isn't clear, but end result is that division has been run poorly.

[ElNik2013]

Speaking of SN, is anyone else surprised they're showing MLB playoffs instead of Hockey on the main SN channels?

[TDotttt2005]

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2014/10/free-agent-profile-melky-cabrera.html

 

MLBTR is predicting a 5-Year 66mil contract for Melky. If he gets that, and its not with the Jays, who would not have to surrender a pick, Jays fans should burn down the Rogers Centre. This is less than the QO would be AAV wise, he'd be 34 (Jose Bautista's age now) when the contract was up, and it fits within their asinine 5-year contract limit. If the Jays are actually serious about fielding a contender, and this is the deal that Melky signs elsewhere, no apologist alive should be able to calm down Jays fans.

[KingKat]

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2014/10/free-agent-profile-melky-cabrera.html

 

MLBTR is predicting a 5-Year 66mil contract for Melky. If he gets that, and its not with the Jays, who would not have to surrender a pick, Jays fans should burn down the Rogers Centre. This is less than the QO would be AAV wise, he'd be 34 (Jose Bautista's age now) when the contract was up, and it fits within their asinine 5-year contract limit. If the Jays are actually serious about fielding a contender, and this is the deal that Melky signs elsewhere, no apologist alive should be able to calm down Jays fans.

 

I don't think this is nearly the no-brainer that you claim it is. When I imagine Melky at 34, I certainly don't picture Bautista at 34 and I'm hardly what you'd call a Jays apologist.

[Abomination]

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2014/10/free-agent-profile-melky-cabrera.html

 

MLBTR is predicting a 5-Year 66mil contract for Melky. If he gets that, and its not with the Jays, who would not have to surrender a pick, Jays fans should burn down the Rogers Centre. This is less than the QO would be AAV wise, he'd be 34 (Jose Bautista's age now) when the contract was up, and it fits within their asinine 5-year contract limit. If the Jays are actually serious about fielding a contender, and this is the deal that Melky signs elsewhere, no apologist alive should be able to calm down Jays fans.

 

I don't think I'd be too happy with 5/66. Something like 5/55 (and front-loaded) I would probably be okay with (or 4/44 with an option). I think with Melky, you either give him something like 2 years at high aav, or 4 or 5 at lower aav. He doesn't strike me as someone who will age well.

[KingKat]

He doesn't strike me as someone who will age well.

 

The Force is strong in this one. (Don't hate me for that dumb joke.)

[TDotttt2005]

Even if he doesn't age well and has to DH, with salary inflation the way it is with the new national/regional TV contracts everyone (but the Jays) are getting, $15 mil in 2020 will be worth 1.5-2 wins. You don't think a 34 year old Melky can put that up?

[TDotttt2005]

No I don't.

 

What I am more scared of than the dollars and term of Melky's contract is the opportunity cost of not having him. Per what AA and the Rogers talking heads have said, everyone asked for Norris/Sanchez/Stroman/Hutch, etc's at the deadline. So if we are not going to go with Gose in CF and Pillar/Mayberry in LF, what will we have to give up for a replacement for Melky?

 

Even if youre overpaying for Melky and keeping your young pitching core in place, doesn't that turn something that may look shortsighted (going too much $ / too much term with Melky) into something that is actually better for the team in the long run.

 

Worst case scenario is another Reyes / Buehrle debacle, where they couldve been signed for the same contracts the season earlier, but instead we gave up 3 top prospects for them the year after. The counter-argument there is that those players wouldnt come here as free agents, but Melky has already come here as a free agent, played here, and enjoyed it, so thats thrown out the window in this situation. I'd rather sign him to that stated contract than give up assets to acquire his replacement, or even worse, don't replace him at all, and basically throw away next season with Pillar and Gose taking up 2 OF spots.

[TDotttt2005]

Gose/Pillar in CF and Pompey in LF. The end.

 

If thats the case, may as well go the Marlins/Astros route and start over.