Offseason roster thread 2014

[GeorgiaPeach]

What if Thole got hurt? Would the Jays be screwed?

 

No, but Dickey would be....again.

[ElNik2013]

Why in every scenario to get to the 100 loss mark by not making those trades look solely at the team of players we had with no other moves?

 

 

I mentioned in another post that they probably became desperate after reportedly striking out on Peavy and Anibal Sanchez. Furthermore, because this F/O has proven to not be effective in the FA market, at least not yet. I have no problem with your point though and would've preferred that they follow the course.

 

And why isn't having arguably the best farm in baseball by not making those trades get mentioned?

 

 

I just don't think this franchise operates in such a way that it would prefer to have a very good farm system and a 90-100 loss MLB team to having a bottom half farm team, or slightly worse, and a team expected to contend. Remember, this is a business as well and Rogers, imo, would easily choose option 2.

 

I have pointed out that not only did the Jays give up young players and payroll flexibility in the Marlins and Dickey trade, but they also gave up a chance to have a top 5 draft pick in 2014 instead of a top 10 pick which would've further strengthened the farm system.

 

On the other hand, maybe they value the higher attendance and tv viewership that they had in 2013 and 2014 than they would've had without the trades.

[GeorgiaPeach]

I just don't think this franchise operates in such a way that it would prefer to have a very good farm system and a 90-100 loss MLB team to having a bottom half farm team, or slightly worse, and a team expected to contend. Remember, this is a business as well and Rogers, imo, would easily choose option 2.

 

If that's your stance, along with the stance on an owner dictating the direction. Wouldn't you lay a huge amount of blame then on ownership for only going half way?

 

They made two trades that strengthened the 25 man roster but not to the point of being classed a dynamite team and weakened the farm, but could have gone further like the Tigers do running with absolutely no farm and everything goes into the 25 man?

[jayswin11]

In the late 80's early 90's, the Jays had no problem bringing in top FA's. They had a strong team, new stadium, and management that treated people the right way. Players wanted to come.

 

"If you build it, he will come"

[ElNik2013]

If that's your stance, along with the stance on an owner dictating the direction. Wouldn't you lay a huge amount of blame then on ownership for only going half way?

 

They made two trades that strengthened the 25 man roster but not to the point of being classed a dynamite team and weakened the farm, but could have gone further like the Tigers do running with absolutely no farm and everything goes into the 25 man?

 

Yes, I would although I'm not sure "blame" is the word I'd use in the sense that, it's their team, so they can choose to do as they please. Would I prefer that they ran the team in the most efficient way possible? Yes, I would, but it's their team. I keep trying to point this out to people who get worked up over the GM, but some people are so heart-broken by AA that their views are tainted by the feeling of betrayal. They get so personal with the guy by making fun of his ballooning weight to help them prove their point. It's ok though, that's their right.

[GeorgiaPeach]

Yes, I would although I'm not sure "blame" is the word I'd use in the sense that, it's their team, so they can choose to do as they please. Would I prefer that they ran the team in the most efficient way possible? Yes, I would, but it's their team. I keep trying to point this out to people who get worked up over the GM, but some people are so heart-broken by AA that their views are tainted by the feeling of betrayal. They get so personal with the guy by making fun of his ballooning weight to help them prove their point. It's ok though, that's their right.

 

I agree, it's Rogers team and they can do what they want. But they can't expect everyone to believe the stuff they spew at SOTF, unless Rogers is pushing them to spin being a "contender" and "playoffs" when clearly they haven't been and aren't even close.

[Slot Machine]

What if Thole got hurt? Would the Jays be screwed?

 

Isn't Henry Blanco still alive? I'm sure they'd just bring him back.

[43211234]

What if Thole got hurt? Would the Jays be screwed?

 

AJ Jimenez

[G-Snarls]

Isn't Henry Blanco still alive? I'm sure they'd just bring him back.

 

He's too busy making movies

 

http://www.hdwallpapers.in/walls/machete_kills_2013_movie-wide.jpg

[jays4life19]

Who says no to this trade?

 

Bluejays send: Jose Reyes + Sean Nolin

Dodgers send: Carl Crawford + Dee Gordon

 

I have a feeling most people are going to say the Dodgers which is fair enough. But the Dodgers do have a glut of expensive OF's and a number of different options at second base and could have a huge hole at SS. So maybe their willing to sacrifice some value from positions of depth to get a shortstop? Wishful thinking?

 

The money is pretty equal too.

 

Another trade i would like is Navarro for Justin Turner or Scott Van Slyke. I think the Dodgers match up nice for a number of trades.

[G-Snarls]

Who says no to this trade?

 

Bluejays send: Jose Reyes + Sean Nolin

Dodgers send: Carl Crawford + Dee Gordon

 

I have a feeling most people are going to say the Dodgers which is fair enough. But the Dodgers do have a glut of expensive OF's and a number of different options at second base and could have a huge hole at SS. So maybe their willing to sacrifice some value from positions of depth to get a shortstop? Wishful thinking?

 

The money is pretty equal too.

 

Another trade i would like is Navarro for Justin Turner or Scott Van Slyke. I think the Dodgers match up nice for a number of trades.

 

That's actually pretty interesting. Dodgers like their star power but yes have too many overpaid outfielders. That could work on both ends.

 

You're presuming they don't want to keep Hanley Ramirez or that they move him or Reyes from short?

[GD]

Imo they do that if it's Ethier, not Crawford

[jays4life19]

That's actually pretty interesting. Dodgers like their star power but yes have too many overpaid outfielders. That could work on both ends.

 

You're presuming they don't want to keep Hanley Ramirez or that they move him or Reyes from short?

 

Yeah. The assumption would be that Hanley Ramirez leaves via free agency and the Dodgers need a shortstop in said scenario.

 

They could plug Justin Turner or Alex Guerreo in at 2nd. They also have a number of options they could go with in LF. Money is equal and they get their SS.

[jaysblue]

Who says no to this trade?

 

Bluejays send: Jose Reyes + Sean Nolin

Dodgers send: Carl Crawford + Dee Gordon

 

I have a feeling most people are going to say the Dodgers which is fair enough. But the Dodgers do have a glut of expensive OF's and a number of different options at second base and could have a huge hole at SS. So maybe their willing to sacrifice some value from positions of depth to get a shortstop? Wishful thinking?

 

The money is pretty equal too.

 

Another trade i would like is Navarro for Justin Turner or Scott Van Slyke. I think the Dodgers match up nice for a number of trades.

 

They wouldn't trade Dee Gordon in this deal after the season he had. I could definitely see a Crawford/Reyes swap intrigue them, and possibly the Jays get someone like Van Slyke or Turner as well for another piece, making it a 2 for 2.

[jaysblue]

Thing is Crawford is making $20 M and Reyes $17 M until the end of 2017. Reyes > Crawford.

 

I'd still rather have Reyes over Crawford right now considering salary, age and position played. It really depends on the other part of the deal and what the Jays would get back. I don't see the Dodgers trading Dee Gordon in a deal for Reyes.

 

Crawford is still valuable - posted a 2.5 WAR this season in limited playing time and last season posted a 2.9 WAR. He's easily a 3 WAR player, similar to what Reyes could produce.

[jaysblue]

f***, Crawford posted a 7.4 WAR in 2010!

[GD]

They wouldn't trade Dee Gordon in this deal after the season he had. I could definitely see a Crawford/Reyes swap intrigue them, and possibly the Jays get someone like Van Slyke or Turner as well for another piece, making it a 2 for 2.

 

Sell high?

[jays4life19]

Thing is Crawford is making $20 M and Reyes $17 M until the end of 2017. Reyes > Crawford.

 

I'd still rather have Reyes over Crawford right now considering salary, age and position played. It really depends on the other part of the deal and what the Jays would get back. I don't see the Dodgers trading Dee Gordon in a deal for Reyes.

 

Crawford is still valuable - posted a 2.5 WAR this season in limited playing time and last season posted a 2.9 WAR. He's easily a 3 WAR player, similar to what Reyes could produce.

 

I would prefer Reyes to Crawford as well. Which is why i would need a second basement to do the deal. The Dodgers have Gordan, Turner and Guerreo. They have depth to move both an OF and 2nd basemen to get a SS.

[jays4life19]

Sell high?

 

Justin Turner would be a nice sell high. I don't think he's going to BABIP (404) his way to a 157 wRC+ again.

[jaysblue]

If the Jays could get Turner and Van Slyke in a deal along with Crawford for Reyes and another piece, that would be sweet. Then go out and sign Stephen Drew or Asdrubal Cabrera to play shortstop.

 

LF Carl Crawford

RF Jose Bautista

1B Edwin Encarnacion

DH Lind/Van Slyke

3B Brett Lawrie

SS Stephen Drew

2B Justin Turner

C Dioner Navarro

CF Anthony Gose

 

BN Danny Valencia

BN Josh Thole

BN Maicer Izturis

BN Scott Van Slyke

 

That's pretty solid. Obviously I'd try and add a better bench piece or two, and I'd try to upgrade on Navarro/Thole (though not sure it happens). Overall, LF is solved, the Jays add a platoon bat with Lind with huge pop and who could play all three outfield positions, they make a significant upgrade at 2B and replace Reyes and don't lose much value with Drew at SS.

[jaysblue]

Sell high?

 

If I'm the Dodgers, I'd probably ask for one of the Jays young starters if I moved Gordon. I don't think it makes sense for them to move him in a deal for Reyes - its more of a lateral move and the Dodgers get older and more expensive with Reyes.

[jays4life19]

I think the Dodgers would prefer to trade Dee Gordan over both Van Slyke and Justin Turner if the return is equal.

[jays4life19]

Justin Turner put up a 3.2 fWAR in 322 PA. (i know, not sustainable..but still). Van Slyke put up a 2.8 fWAR in 246 PA.

 

Justin Turner + Van Slyke together way more valuable then Dee Gordan.

[jaysblue]

Justin Turner would be a nice sell high. I don't think he's going to BABIP (404) his way to a 157 wRC+ again.

 

Don't think so either, though he should still be a nice piece and would be a huge upgrade in comparison to what the Jays were rolling out there at second base this season, and doesn't cost much in terms of salary. I'm fine with Guerrero or Turner to be honest; Guerrero has more upside and is younger - whats his defense like though? Turner is probably a safer bet.

 

I think Van Slyke is a must as well - perfect platoon partner with Lind and can play all three outfield positions and first base which is valuable.

 

I don't mind Crawford - I think he'd be a solid replacement for Melky in left and if I recall Crawford always loved hitting at the Rogers Centre. The Jays would have to go out and sign Drew or Cabrera to play SS (Drew preferably). They solve their questions in LF, 2B, DH all with this deal, and replace Reyes at a reasonable cost.

[BTS]

I think the Dodgers would prefer to trade Dee Gordan over both Van Slyke and Justin Turner if the return is equal.

 

I don't think the Dodgers are moving any of the three to acquire Navarro or swap Crawford for Reyes. They don't operate like that.

[jaysblue]

Justin Turner put up a 3.2 fWAR in 322 PA. (i know, not sustainable..but still). Van Slyke put up a 2.8 fWAR in 246 PA.

 

Justin Turner + Van Slyke together way more valuable then Dee Gordan.

 

I'd rather get Turner and Van Slyke over Gordon - you're getting tremendous value. They likely view Gordon as a young, cheap, controllable middle infielder with blazing speed, which in their eyes is probably more valuable than a guy who had a career year like Turner and a OF bat who crushes LHP.

[jaysblue]

I don't think the Dodgers are moving any of the three to acquire Navarro or swap Crawford for Reyes. They don't operate like that.

 

Doubt the Dodgers move any of those pieces for Navarro. I'm sure they'd swap Crawford for Reyes however straight up.

[jays4life19]

I'd rather get Turner and Van Slyke over Gordon - you're getting tremendous value. They likely view Gordon as a young, cheap, controllable middle infielder with blazing speed, which in their eyes is probably more valuable than a guy who had a career year like Turner and a OF bat who crushes LHP.

 

I agree. I think everyone would prefer both Turner and Van Slyke over Gordon and that's the problem.

[BTS]

Doubt the Dodgers move any of those pieces for Navarro. I'm sure they'd swap Crawford for Reyes however straight up.

 

Yeah. I meant that I don't think they'd add a Turner/Gordon/Van Slyke to Crawford to get Reyes. If anything similar happens it would be Reyes + useful things to LA as a salary dump.

[jaysblue]

Fangraphs contract is wrong. Reyes' luxury tax hit is 17M but he will be making $22M a year.

 

Yeah I figured when I read it on FanGraphs - I said to myself I thought he was making more.

 

Who would you take next season and moving forward - Crawford or Reyes?