Henderson Alvarez

[SAAviour]

He will likely be the one that hurts the most to lose, was one of my favs to.

 

2.62era and 3 shutouts already. Still not striking out enough though, but 5.9 strike out rate isn't horrendous. ERA+ 144. I'm no stats guru, but that's nice.

[HERPDERP]

He was my favorite because he could throw a 97 mph sinker with Wang-like sink (pre injury). Not many pitchers can do that.

 

I think at least two of his SO this year were under 100 pitches. That's pretty rare nowadays.

[Atothe]

He will likely be the one that hurts the most to lose, was one of my favs to.

 

2.62era and 3 shutouts already. Still not striking out enough though, but 5.9 strike out rate isn't horrendous. ERA+ 144. I'm no stats guru, but that's nice.

 

He will be missed especially since what he's been doing recently. Buehrle has been awesome so it hurts less

[KingKat]

He will likely be the one that hurts the most to lose, was one of my favs to.

 

2.62era and 3 shutouts already. Still not striking out enough though, but 5.9 strike out rate isn't horrendous. ERA+ 144. I'm no stats guru, but that's nice.

 

Is he still just a two pitch guy? I always thought his development was thrown off track by not letting him develop that third pitch in the minors.

[Atothe]

He was my favorite because he could throw a 97 mph sinker with Wang-like sink (pre injury). Not many pitchers can do that.

 

I think at least two of his SO this year were under 100 pitches. That's pretty rare nowadays.

 

Yeah yesterday it was a 88 pitch so. That's a super maddux

[wilko]

I think he's better suited for the NL.

[GeorgiaPeach]

He will be missed especially since what he's been doing recently. Buehrle has been awesome so it hurts less

 

When Alvarez is getting paid close to LG Min. and Buehrle's getting what he's getting....I'll take Alvarez.

[GeorgiaPeach]

Alvarez/Escobar/Marisnick and even Desclafani stings, what's done is done though.

 

And Jay, what's sickening is people who've been vocal about disliking both the Marlins & Dickey trade are onboard to go further down the road of making the similar stupid moves.

[Terminator]

He will likely be the one that hurts the most to lose, was one of my favs to.

 

2.62era and 3 shutouts already. Still not striking out enough though, but 5.9 strike out rate isn't horrendous. ERA+ 144. I'm no stats guru, but that's nice.

 

Yeah he will be the one that we miss the most for sure. Actually, he may be the only one.

[BarkatToronto]

Agreed, Shields/Shark and LEE ESPECIALLY is just dumn.

 

Agreed very important to start the rebuilding now around the prospects, what ever we do, we should not try to go for it and win a championship. Agreed.

[ElNik2013]

At the end of the day, Jays decided they didn't want to wait for all these players to hopefully arrive and establish themselves at the MLB level at the same time.

 

I think most of us know that they overpaid to try to contend now. If they make the playoffs, it'll be less painful. We'll see what happens.

[Terminator]

I think most of us know that they overpaid to try to contend now. If they make the playoffs, it'll be less painful. We'll see what happens.

 

It will also be less painful should the guys given up fail to pan out, which may be the case for a lot of them. Right now, it looks like AA gave up a lot of fool's gold.

[ElNik2013]

Way to early, and Escobar and Alvarez have been very successful. The line moves on.

 

 

I personally don't count Escobar against AA although I do count him him against the way the organization is run above AA. I really think AA had to either release him and eat his contract or find someone to take him so they wouldn't have to eat the $$.

[BarkatToronto]

Hurrrrrr.........did I say that, you f***ing asshat?

 

that is what you are implying isn't it

 

You have to understand that If Sanchez Norris etc. ever become good pitchers, they will be doing it on a Jays team that will lose 90-100 games. Thats the problem with this franchise, when the low comes they need to hit the real lows. Just like Detroit/Texas etc.

 

This team is old, and it needs to win now. They should do WHATEVER it takes to get an ace. If that means emptying the system, then that is the price.

[Terminator]

Way to early, and Escobar and Alvarez have been very successful. The line moves on.

 

Yeah I agree, it is too early. But a lot of the guys that were traded away have seen their value decrease since the 2013 offseason. Some of them significantly.

[GeorgiaPeach]

Alvarez in the AL East probably has a high 4 ERA. He plays in an extreme pitchers park in a division that can't score runs. Give credit where credit is due. But hes not as good as his numbers suggest. We would probably hammer him. He doesn't miss bats.

 

I'd still rather pay Alvarez less than a mil and have the rest of the money spent elsewhere opposed to paying a crazily over-achieving Buehrle a crazy amount of money.

[Hipfan]

I don't know why people rag on the Marlins trade, I think it has worked out great for the Jays. While Johnson was a bust, Beurhle has been as advertised and while Reyes was injured last year he is paying dividends this year.

 

Alvarez would not have the same numbers in the AL. He is decent, but I would take Beurhle over him. People are over valuing prospects these days. The Jays are for real this year, and that trade has a lot to do with it. As Herm Edwards said "you play to win the game", not develop prospects.

 

I wasn't on board with the Dickey trade, but that doesn't seem too bad now. If the Jays make the playoffs, those trades were definitely worth it. Let's go get Smardija (sp), I have no problem giving up Sanchez for a guy like that. Keep Stroman though, he is proving to be a solid major leaguer.

[GeorgiaPeach]

Agreed very important to start the rebuilding now around the prospects, what ever we do, we should not try to go for it and win a championship. Agreed.

 

We're at a point where the team is better than average, the farm is average and we're sitting with two picks in and around the top 10. It's not time to do a rebuild, nor is it time to further shave the farm down. It's time to start slowly moving older assets for younger pieces, while our older assets are still performing well and we get peak value as a return.

[Boxcar]

When Alvarez is getting paid close to LG Min. and Buehrle's getting what he's getting....I'll take Alvarez.

 

Pretty much this.

[GeorgiaPeach]

I personally don't count Escobar against AA although I do count him him against the way the organization is run above AA. I really think AA had to either release him and eat his contract or find someone to take him so they wouldn't have to eat the $$.

 

I still think it's hilarious at whoever mentioned it awhile back. The Jays acquired Escobar knowing he was a malcontent with the Braves, yet itched to get rid of him when the maricon issue popped up. They stole him from the Braves and pretty much gave him away in the Marlins deal......stupid.

[Terminator]

It's time to start slowly moving older assets for younger pieces, while our older assets are still performing well and we get peak value as a return.

 

Even when we nearly have a 70% chance of winning the division? I don't think now is the time to sell.

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/coolstandings.aspx?type=2&lg=

 

Also, the contract on all of these trades lined up nicely as they expire after next year. So even though some of these guys are old, their contracts expire soon and it will give us some payroll flexibility moving forward.

[GeorgiaPeach]

that is what you are implying isn't it

 

I'd be okay with moving Edwin or Bautista this month or next for a haul of young talent. Both are 30+, are likely not going to be playing like this for years. So yes I'd trade off maybe not winning this year to have a much better shot at winning for 5 or 6 years.

 

You have to understand that If Sanchez Norris etc. ever become good pitchers, they will be doing it on a Jays team that will lose 90-100 games. Thats the problem with this franchise, when the low comes they need to hit the real lows. Just like Detroit/Texas etc.

 

This team is old, and it needs to win now. They should do WHATEVER it takes to get an ace. If that means emptying the system, then that is the price.

 

That's not the only option.

[Hipfan]

Agreed with Terminator... now is the time to buy. You never know when you will have another shot to win, and this year is shaping up very nicely.

[GeorgiaPeach]

Yeah I agree, it is too early. But a lot of the guys that were traded away have seen their value decrease since the 2013 offseason. Some of them significantly.

 

Most prospects lose their hype or shine when they break into the majors because most of the time there's a bit of a lull.

 

What would your thoughts be on a Bautista for Shelby Miller, Oscar Taveras deal? And what team would say no?

[BarkatToronto]

Agreed, now is the time to buy. You never know when you will have another shot to win, and this year is shaping up very nicely.

 

This is it. They have to go for it. Especially if they are leading the division in July. Do whatever it takes to get an Ace, as long as you dont have to trade anyone from the roster.

[ElNik2013]

I still think it's hilarious at whoever mentioned it awhile back. The Jays acquired Escobar knowing he was a malcontent with the Braves, yet itched to get rid of him when the maricon issue popped up. They stole him from the Braves and pretty much gave him away in the Marlins deal......stupid.

 

 

I agree, but it's the way they run things. I think it also happened with Rios.

[GD]

Most prospects lose their hype or shine when they break into the majors because most of the time there's a bit of a lull.

 

What would your thoughts be on a Bautista for Shelby Miller, Oscar Taveras deal? And what team would say no?

 

I don't want Shelby and I dunno if the Cards agree to that.

[GeorgiaPeach]

I don't know why people rag on the Marlins trade, I think it has worked out great for the Jays. While Johnson was a bust, Beurhle has been as advertised and while Reyes was injured last year he is paying dividends this year

 

The Jays could've kept all the farm pieces they moved in the Marlins & Dickey trade and overbid 5m per year each on a handful of free agents they might've been targeting and I would've preferred that route.

 

Alvarez would not have the same numbers in the AL. He is decent, but I would take Beurhle over him. People are over valuing prospects these days.

 

I'd rather the Jays have offered Anibal Sanchez 25 mil a year and kept Henderson Alvarez than not have Alvarez and pay Buehrle close to 20 mil.

 

The Jays are for real this year, and that trade has a lot to do with it. As Herm Edwards said "you play to win the game", not develop prospects.

 

I guess in your scenario the Jays are playing shy with how much money they'll spend, because as it stands the Sox, Yanks, Dodgers and a couple other teams will easily top Toronto in doling money out to players (FA's) or complete a trade taking on significant payroll. So if the Jays are willing to run the payroll up another 50 mil great, otherwise they can't ignore the farm to keep some sort of payroll flexibility in place.

 

I wasn't on board with the Dickey trade, but that doesn't seem too bad now. If the Jays make the playoffs, those trades were definitely worth it. Let's go get Smardija (sp), I have no problem giving up Sanchez for a guy like that. Keep Stroman though, he is proving to be a solid major leaguer.

 

And if Hoyer says we want Stroman+? Or we want Sanchez and two of your other top 5 prospects?

[GeorgiaPeach]

Even when we nearly have a 70% chance of winning the division? I don't think now is the time to sell.

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/coolstandings.aspx?type=2&lg=

 

Also, the contract on all of these trades lined up nicely as they expire after next year. So even though some of these guys are old, their contracts expire soon and it will give us some payroll flexibility moving forward.

 

When the contracts expire, what do we have on top of the money being free'd up....nothing. I'd rather have Buehrle's contract off the books and a B prospect opposed to having Buehrle for an extra two months of 2015. And waving bon voyage empty handed.

[BarkatToronto]

 

And if Hoyer says we want Stroman+? Or we want Sanchez and two of your other top 5 prospects?

 

I wouldn't move Stroman, but I'd move 3 of our top 5 prospects. I'd go after Price first, given the history of success in the AL East. However I'd do it. You have to. An Ace makes this team a world series contender. The AL Is weak, Tigers are probably the leading candidates. I'd say we are at least as powerful offensively if not more powerful. However our pitching couldn't stack up against theirs. However a Price or Shark at the front of the rotation gives us a chance in a series.

 

Anyways AA is already all in. The days of saving prospects are over.

 

Its time, strip the farm system and lets go for it.