Jordan Shusterman: 25 greatest Barry Bonds facts

[connorp]

If an hgh/test cocktail meant having a .480 OBP would be possible.. not sure if there would be a single guy in the game clean even today

[JaysAllMighty]

Ben Johnson was stripped of his gold medal for cheating. Rightfully so. Now they need to prove how much using drugs improves one's ability???? The point is, it does and it's not fair play.

[connorp]

Ben Johnson was stripped of his gold medal for cheating. Rightfully so. Now they need to prove how much using drugs improves one's ability???? The point is, it does and it's not fair play.

 

Well, if youre going to go the lawyer route.. BJ was also not hung by a noose through speculation. He failed a drug test where the penalties were clearly lined out. If you're going to assume BB did all sorts of stuff.. why not everyone else? where the news didn't break because nobody cared about said players.

[z3r0s]

Ben Johnson was stripped of his gold medal for cheating. Rightfully so. Now they need to prove how much using drugs improves one's ability???? The point is, it does and it's not fair play.

 

How much were the legends of the past hurt/helped by only playing against white players (not to mention their own brand of performance enhancers)? Ever era has its own set of wrinkles. Take a look at how a given player compared to other players in the same era. Its the only way to do it.

[KingKat]

Ben Johnson was stripped of his gold medal for cheating. Rightfully so. Now they need to prove how much using drugs improves one's ability???? The point is, it does and it's not fair play.

 

Everyone in that 100M final has since been linked to steroids. Ben Johnson was the scapegoat for track and for sports in general. It was the event that opened everyone's eye to the realisty of steroids and he paid a huge price but looking back it's pretty obvious he was the best at his sport and didn't deserve to be disgraced. He won that race, period.

[JaysAllMighty]

Well, if youre going to go the lawyer route.. BJ was also not hung by a noose through speculation. He failed a drug test where the penalties were clearly lined out. If you're going to assume BB did all sorts of stuff.. why not everyone else? where the news didn't break because nobody cared about said players.

 

Well it's certainly your choice to believe Bonds and others like him are just plain clean players. I'm just glad that the ones overseeing the sport are not that gullible.

[G-Snarls]

Well it's certainly your choice to believe Bonds and others like him are just plain clean players. I'm just glad that the ones overseeing the sport are not that gullible.

 

NOBODY is saying that Bonds was clean...

[JaysAllMighty]

Everyone in that 100M final has since been linked to steroids. Ben Johnson was the scapegoat for track and for sports in general. It was the event that opened everyone's eye to the realisty of steroids and he paid a huge price but looking back it's pretty obvious he was the best at his sport and didn't deserve to be disgraced. He won that race, period.

 

Two wrongs do not make one right. He cheated, I don't care who else cheated. Winning by cheating don't count in my books.

[jays_fever]

NOBODY is saying that Bonds was clean...

 

He was the idiot who got caught though, I think that's the point and inducting him into the HOF would be claiming cheating is okay. The HOF is already a big joke regardless but I dont think you can allow proven cheaters in.

[KingKat]

Two wrongs do not make one right. He cheated, I don't care who else cheated. Winning by cheating don't count in my books.

 

So you're just going to root for the athletes who haven't been caught yet and call them clean like all those dopes who thought Lance Armstrong was a hero?

[G-Snarls]

He was the idiot who got caught though, I think that's the point and inducting him into the HOF would be claiming cheating is okay. The HOF is already a big joke regardless but I dont think you can allow proven cheaters in.

 

That's a tough one for me. Where do you draw the line?

 

Mark McGuire admits he used PED's. Sammy Sosa doesn't admit he used them but everyone knows he did. Alex Rodriguez has still never failed a drug test. Barry Bonds was guilty of "obstructing justice".

 

All have HOF numbers. Who gets in and who doesn't? All of them? Some of them? None of them?

 

Murky waters indeed...

[JaysAllMighty]

I cheered for Johnson but once he was caught I threw him under the bus like I would with all cheaters.

 

Play by the rules if you want my respect. That's the only way to teach our kids. But to say because many are doing it then it's ok, that's just plain wrong.

[GeorgiaPeach]

I don't understand the people who are in awe and admiring records set by players using performance-enhancing drugs.

 

I only see them as cheating the system. I respect the records that were set without the use of them. Seems like I am of the exception on this forum.

 

That's just the way I feel.

 

What I don't understand is the following the NFL gets in NA, but MLB is the one with the "PED problem" and fans are up in arms.

[G-Snarls]

What I don't understand is the following the NFL gets in NA, but MLB is the one with the "PED problem" and fans are up in arms.

 

Seriously though, so true. The blind eye that MLB may have turned on PED use a decade ago has NOTHING on the blissful ignorance the NFL is currently enjoying.

[GeorgiaPeach]

Two wrongs do not make one right. He cheated, I don't care who else cheated. Winning by cheating don't count in my books.

 

Well, if winning by cheating doesn't count in your books, you really shouldn't be following sports.

 

Its not like cheating just started happening. And I'm talking all sports.

[connorp]

Seriously though, so true. The blind eye that MLB may have turned on PED use a decade ago has NOTHING on the blissful ignorance the NFL is currently enjoying.

 

Or even the NBA. Rumor was Biogenesis dealth with NBA guys including Miami Heat and look where that investigation went..lol..

they aren't stupid and know not to put the black eye on the sport so these self-righteous bastards (some fans and old school media) don't get to have their uninformed opinions

[John_Havok]

Seriously though, so true. The blind eye that MLB may have turned on PED use a decade ago has NOTHING on the blissful ignorance the NFL is currently enjoying.

 

Wait.. you mean 300+ pound lineman aren't supposed to be able to run a 4.65 40 yard dash?

 

http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2013/2/23/4021176/2013-nfl-combine-results-top-offensive-lineman-40-yard-dash-times

[Grant77]

He was the idiot who got caught though, I think that's the point and inducting him into the HOF would be claiming cheating is okay. The HOF is already a big joke regardless but I dont think you can allow proven cheaters in.

 

Cheating implies breaking rules, doesn't it? Bonds didn't break any rules that I know of, at least on the field.

[TheHurl]

I cheered for Johnson but once he was caught I threw him under the bus like I would with all cheaters.

 

Play by the rules if you want my respect. That's the only way to teach our kids. But to say because many are doing it then it's ok, that's just plain wrong.

 

There wasn't one clean person in that race. f***ing Carl Lewis was caught before that Olympics and the test result disappeared.

[baseballsss]

Collusion 101. Coming off a 2007 season of wRC+ 146 (456 OBP) Not a single AL team wanted to sign him as a DH? lol Selig really hates those PED's guys.

 

There was an article a while back that said it was the owners who actually made the decision not to sign him. He said he would be more them happy to come back on a cheap contract.

[baseballsss]

I cheered for Johnson but once he was caught I threw him under the bus like I would with all cheaters.

 

Play by the rules if you want my respect. That's the only way to teach our kids. But to say because many are doing it then it's ok, that's just plain wrong.

 

Why even watch baseball? There were 300 people on the mitchell list and more thank likely hundreds more that didnt get caught. Chances are if you watched baseball in the early 2000's you were mostly watching roided up dudes hell probably even still today.

[baseballsss]

O yah canseco already said someone in the hall was on roids, as big as a douche as canseco is he hasn't lied yet. Steriods or not Bonds is the best hitter of all time and should be in there.

[ElNik2013]

My view is that I don't think the numbers these guys put up would've been put up without steroids so they lose a lot of credibility in my eyes. Do I think they belong in the HOF? Absolutely, but there's no doubt in my mind most of these guys would've seen declines by the age of 33 or so. Anyway...to each his own.

[LunchBox]

PED controversy is a f***ing joke. An arbitrary line is drawn, some substances are deemed acceptable and others illicit. The pharmacological differences between the two groups may not justify such a distinction.

 

The most common complaint seems to be "it's unfair to past generations of players and their respective accomplishments to allow the use of these substances". Should current players be prevented from utilizing modern medicine, equipment, diet and fitness training, keeping variables constant for the sake of comparison? Obviously not, it's just nonsensical to compare players of vastly different eras, PEDs are largely irrelevant.

 

Nobody would say that modern academics are disgracing the accomplishments of their predecessors because they're hopped up on Redbull and Adderall, why apply that logic to sports which are relatively inconsequential? Progress will continue to be made, to do anything other than embrace it will be bad for athletics as a whole.

[Jimcanuck]

It was pretty much inevitable this would turn into a discussion about steroids. Regardless we know Bonds juiced, a large amount of players also did. So this still makes Bonds the best player of his era.

 

By extension then, Armstrong the best cyclist, Johnson the best sprinter, etc...... but this is not necessarily true. There were non-cheating cyclists, sprinters, and baseball players.... we will never know how much of the performance gap was due to the juice. Perhaps not enough to be HOF-worthy? Would Armstrong win just 1 Tour de France? Were Bonds, Armstrong and Johnson simply the most efficient of the cheaters?

 

Only if you can answer these questions can you make a conclusion on who was the best. And these questions cannot be answered. Can you really conclude that a non-juiced Bonds would put up better career numbers than a non-juiced Griffey Jr?

[ElNik2013]

By extension then, Armstrong the best cyclist, Johnson the best sprinter, etc...... but this is not necessarily true. There were non-cheating cyclists, sprinters, and baseball players.... we will never know how much of the performance gap was due to the juice. Perhaps not enough to be HOF-worthy? Would Armstrong win just 1 Tour de France? Were Bonds, Armstrong and Johnson simply the most efficient of the cheaters?

 

Only if you can answer these questions can you make a conclusion on who was the best. And these questions cannot be answered. Can you really conclude that a non-juiced Bonds would put up better career numbers than a non-juiced Griffey Jr?

 

 

Well put. I think some also ignore the performances these guys put up at an age when most players decline. Aren't there discussions about players peaking sometime in their 20's? Anyway, we all view things our way so it's a moot point.

[connorp]

There was an article a while back that said it was the owners who actually made the decision not to sign him. He said he would be more them happy to come back on a cheap contract.

 

See, I didn't read this... As far as Bonds being on record for coming back and accepting a cheap contract just to play. BB is my all-time fav and I was bummed he didn't come back that year. I was always curious to know the inside scoop on the situation. Just heard the collusion rumors. I don't recall hearing about what you're saying though. Let me know if theres a link so I could judge the source. Not saying that sarcastically, I really would like to read about how all that unfolded.

 

Would he be willing to go to a s*** bb city like TOR on the other side of the world (exag obv) for say $5m? I would be curious to know what offers came in. I thought his agent had said there was some talks with various team but not sure..

[z3r0s]

Bringing up other sports is just a deflection for the weak argument you were about to make. Bonds performance with the Pirates should hold enough proof that yes, he was better then Griffey. He also could steal bases when he was 40. Cmon man.

 

Not to mention that success in both cycling and sprinting is much more related to physical 'tools' than baseball is. Roids help undoubtably, but not like they would in sprinting.

[Boxcar]

Wasn't there a Tour de France where the cyclist who finished highest with no links to PEDs finished 26th? Armstrong certainly was the best cyclist of his generation, just a massive *******.

 

How are we all so positive that Griffey was clean, anyway? Silly to make assumptions.

[connorp]

He was the idiot who got caught though, I think that's the point and inducting him into the HOF would be claiming cheating is okay. The HOF is already a big joke regardless but I dont think you can allow proven cheaters in.

 

Idk what "caught" means.. you mean where people said things about him, that's "caught"?.. or do you mean his obstruction of justice charge that he was convicted for AFTER he was blackballed and shamed from the game (having no chance at HOF)