Jordan Shusterman: 25 greatest Barry Bonds facts

[NorthOf49]

Who cares if he used steroids, the stats he put up counted and are part of baseball's statistical record. Barry Bonds is one of the greatest players ever and deserves enshrinement.

[Jimcanuck]

Wasn't there a Tour de France where the cyclist who finished highest with no links to PEDs finished 26th? Armstrong certainly was the best cyclist of his generation, just a massive *******.

 

How are we all so positive that Griffey was clean, anyway? Silly to make assumptions.

 

Where did I say Griffey was clean?

[Jimcanuck]

Bringing up other sports is just a deflection for the weak argument you were about to make. Bonds performance with the Pirates should hold enough proof that yes, he was better then Griffey. He also could steal bases when he was 40. Cmon man.

 

Was Bonds clean during his Pirates years?

[Jimcanuck]

Not to mention that success in both cycling and sprinting is much more related to physical 'tools' than baseball is. Roids help undoubtably, but not like they would in sprinting.

 

Are you sure about this? Would a non-juiced Mark McGwire hit > 61 home runs?

[Jimcanuck]

He still has to make perfect contact to do it.

 

Not really. With his strength built up through 'roids, even imperfect contact will do it.

[KingKat]

Are you sure about this? Would a non-juiced Mark McGwire hit > 61 home runs?

 

I can't really answer that but reportedly McGwire's rookie record of 49 homeruns was accomplished pre-steroids which if true would give an idea of the guy's natural power.

[Jimcanuck]

I can't really answer that but reportedly McGwire's rookie record of 49 homeruns was accomplished pre-steroids which if true would give an idea of the guy's natural power.

 

Back in those days even some of the linemen on my high school football team in London ON were taking 'roids.

[KingKat]

Back in those days even some of the linemen on my high school football team in London ON were taking 'roids.

 

Yeah there's no way to know for sure. That just seems to be the accepted narrative on McGwire. He certainly was quite a bit slimer in his rookie season but being slimmer in your twenties is pretty much the norm for every North American male so who knows. One thing to consider if you doubt the accepted narrative is that Canseco was a one year veteran on that 1989 Oakland team. We all know it started with Canseco. It's just a question of when.

[TheEndIsNigh]

Bringing up other sports is just a deflection for the weak argument you were about to make. Bonds performance with the Pirates should hold enough proof that yes, he was better then Griffey. He also could steal bases when he was 40. Cmon man.

 

No, Griffey with mariners > bonds with pirates by a big margin, griffey was also one of the bets defensive centre fielder. Griffey > bonds without his drug factory.

[ElNik2013]

The thing about these guys is how they performed in their 30's.

[Jimcanuck]

Bonds with the Pirates: 7.1 WAR./150 games

Griffey with Mariners: 6.7 WAR/150 games

 

So no.

 

Not that simple. Griffey WAR > Bonds WAR every year except for one up to age 26 season. Griffey had more cumulative WAR until age 30, after which Bonds went WAR berserk.

 

Injuries to Griffey and Bonds drugs the difference.

[Jimcanuck]

All he said was that Griffey as a Mariner was a significantly better player than Bonds as a Pirate, which is objectively false.

 

Agree the difference is not significant, keeping in mind that Griffey's otherworldly defence pre-injuries is likely WAR undervalued.

[ElNik2013]

Of course. They were more or less equals for the first half of their respective careers, then injuries got the best of Griffey while Bonds went on to have arguably the 2nd-best career in the history of baseball.

 

Yeah for sure. I actually meant McGuire and Bonds and how usually players don't perform like that in their 30's. You could add Clemens and others to that list of course. I really don't think they were as good as their numbers in their 30's suggests they were. Anyway....

[GD]

I doubt it. He's credited with six seasons as at least a +7 run defender in Seattle, including four +10 seasons and a +32.

 

How accurate do you think that Retrosheet data is?

 

Man I love me some Junior. Favorite player of all time, honestly.

[Jimcanuck]

Doing WAR graph comparisons with Bonds is quite interesting. In terms of cumulative WAR, Griffey JR and Rickey Henderson both parallel Bonds in cumulative WAR up to about age 32, after which Bonds went of on what we now know was a 'roids fuelled tear.

 

Saying Bonds has had the 2nd best MLB career has to include several asterisks. A non 'roids Bonds may not even surpass Henderson.

[Jimcanuck]

Not good lol. I doubt it's undervaluing Jr. in this case though.

 

Wait,, did you even watch him play before he became a broken down old man?

 

I watched him..... highlight reel almost every night

[connorp]

Yeah there's no way to know for sure. That just seems to be the accepted narrative on McGwire. He certainly was quite a bit slimer in his rookie season but being slimmer in your twenties is pretty much the norm for every North American male so who knows. One thing to consider if you doubt the accepted narrative is that Canseco was a one year veteran on that 1989 Oakland team. We all know it started with Canseco. It's just a question of when.

 

Actually it was 1987 when Mac launched all those homers. Very easy to remember without looking because 1987 was when mlb prob itself cheated by experimenting with juicing the balls.. Balls were going out at a crazy rate... my first favorite player in baseball.. the stud George Bell put out 47 on route to his MVP season (I think).. But Canseco was a 1 year vet then too.. I had his 1986 rookie card so I'm pretty sure on that without looking..

[connorp]

Doing WAR graph comparisons with Bonds is quite interesting. In terms of cumulative WAR, Griffey JR and Rickey Henderson both parallel Bonds in cumulative WAR up to about age 32, after which Bonds went of on what we now know was a 'roids fuelled tear.

 

Saying Bonds has had the 2nd best MLB career has to include several asterisks. A non 'roids Bonds may not even surpass Henderson.

 

Do you thing hgh is like a magic elixir that can fix anything.. it's not.. not even close.. Sure it undoubtedly helps but if you're assuming guys like Griffey and Rickey didn't use hgh later on in their careers in hopes of getting back on the field and competing.. but just couldn't compete at that same level.. youre mistaken..

 

Bonds and Clemens outside of roids are known as two of the hardest working guys in bb history.. their off-seasons were maniacal according to all reports.. Rickey could have spent too much time doing blow and f***ing hookers and Griffey something else.. I mean before the mid 30's.. meaning Bonds and Clemens had prepared their bodies by then to be machines to withstand the grind

[Jimcanuck]

Do you thing hgh is like a magic elixir that can fix anything.. it's not.. not even close.. Sure it undoubtedly helps but if you're assuming guys like Griffey and Rickey didn't use hgh later on in their careers in hopes of getting back on the field and competing.. but just couldn't compete at that same level.. youre mistaken..

 

Bonds and Clemens outside of roids are known as two of the hardest working guys in bb history.. their off-seasons were maniacal according to all reports.. Rickey could have spent too much time doing blow and f***ing hookers and Griffey something else.. I mean before the mid 30's.. meaning Bonds and Clemens had prepared their bodies by then to be machines to withstand the grind

 

You do know that 'roids not only builds muscle mass and strength but also masks the pain of work outs..... how do you think Bonds and Clemens were able to 'maniacally' work out....

[Dick_Pole]

Holy s*** @ all the whining about cheaters

 

Gaylord Perry is in the HOF and not only was he well known as a cheater, he is CELEBRATED for it. He wrote a book during the middle of his career called "Me and the Spitter". That would be the equivalent of Bonds writing a book during the early 2000's called "Me and PED Use".

[connorp]

You do know that 'roids not only builds muscle mass and strength but also masks the pain of work outs..... how do you think Bonds and Clemens were able to 'maniacally' work out....

 

No. You're not looking at it right. There's players like Kobe Bryant, Michael Jordan.. they just want it much more than even the normal athlete.. Bonds and Clemens fit in that personality.. when guys are relaxing in the off-season, roids or no.. these guys would be on their program the first day after the season was over..

 

Im not saying the same about many (most) of the other known users..

[KingKat]

Actually it was 1987 when Mac launched all those homers. Very easy to remember without looking because 1987 was when mlb prob itself cheated by experimenting with juicing the balls.. Balls were going out at a crazy rate... my first favorite player in baseball.. the stud George Bell put out 47 on route to his MVP season (I think).. But Canseco was a 1 year vet then too.. I had his 1986 rookie card so I'm pretty sure on that without looking..

 

Yeah I remember that season, McGriff set the Jays rookie record that season as well. I must have put 1989 because I had the 49 number in mind. I also remember Canseco's rookie in 1986, first of three for Oakland (with Walt Weiss in 1988).