Davidi: Jays looking at "in house options"

[Jimcanuck]

Well glad that got cleared up haha.

 

I am a big believer in the mental aspect of sports and how it can really effect your game. JP has the potential to be an awesome catcher but he got rattled mentally in Toronto. the whole side show of twitter and calling out the media did not help. A change of location can do wonders for players. We see it many time in all sports. A player under performs at one team moved to another location and flourishes. He has the potential, it just did not work in Toronto.

 

Makes sense for many players NJH (you don't fool me)

 

For JPA, there is a problem though; there are fatal flaws in the JPA tool set

[The Cats Ass]

Just for fun I thought I'd give this a shot. There rules are simple:

 

1) Each player must have spent more major league innings playing 1B than any other position. Obviously this is to prevent having Joe Mauer being your catcher, Miguel Tejada being your shotrstop and so on.

 

2) Each player must have played at least 1 major league inning at the position he occupies in your lineup.

 

C Pacheco

1B -----

2B Craig

3B Trumbo

SS Morse

LF Votto

CF Moss ( I wanted Cuddyer/Swisher but they've played considerably more OF)

RF Hosmer

P C. Davis

 

In the interest of full disclosure, I broke rule #1 once. Morse has played more OF innings that 1B, but that probably says more about the ridiculous teams he's played for, I don't think anyone in their right mind would argue against him being a natural 1B.

 

Challenge excepted...

 

C Jordan Pacheco

1B -----

2B Allen Craig

3B Mark Trumbo

SS Albert Pujols

LF Joey Votto

CF Brandon Moss

RF Adrian Gonzalez

P Chris Davis

 

My team's better, without even having to break a rule.

[GD]

Challenge excepted...

 

booooooooooo

 

 

 

Pertinent to the discussion: What if: Prince Fielder Were an Everyday Shortsop? (click me)

[LunchBox]

Albert Pujols' 2 innings at SS was a hell of a find lol

[Angrioter]

Challenge excepted...

 

C Jordan Pacheco

1B -----

2B Allen Craig

3B Mark Trumbo

SS Albert Pujols

LF Joey Votto

CF Brandon Moss

RF Adrian Gonzalez

P Chris Davis

 

My team's better, without even having to break a rule.

 

Ben Zobrist x9

[Abomination]

Now that the O's seem to be stuck on the relief side of things (let's face it, considering Rodney at 10M / year is definitely stuck), I wonder if we could pry away Schoop?

[Brenner]

Now that the O's seem to be stuck on the relief side of things (let's face it, considering Rodney at 10M / year is definitely stuck), I wonder if we could pry away Schoop?

 

Yes will look silly to give Johnson away and not end up saving any money. Maybe AA was right and our cheap RP options will become more valuable on the trade market once all these expensive FAs are locked up. Gotta be some bullpens out there that are in need of bolstering.

 

If we actually bring in 1 or 2 SP it would push Happ into the bullpen, giving us:

 

Janssen

Santos

Delebar

Cecil

Wagner

Loup

McGowan

Rogers

Happ

 

Thats 9 guys plus AAA depth like Stilson, Perez x2, Jeffress, and others. Something will need to give.

[GD]

Janssen for Schoop!

 

Do the O's take that?

[Abomination]

Do the O's take that?

 

I doubt it since Janssen only has 1 year left, but maybe they'd consider Santos.

[Angrioter]

Yes will look silly to give Johnson away and not end up saving any money. Maybe AA was right and our cheap RP options will become more valuable on the trade market once all these expensive FAs are locked up. Gotta be some bullpens out there that are in need of bolstering.

 

If we actually bring in 1 or 2 SP it would push Happ into the bullpen, giving us:

 

Janssen

Santos

Delebar

Cecil

Wagner

Loup

McGowan

Rogers

Happ

 

Thats 9 guys plus AAA depth like Stilson, Perez x2, Jeffress, and others. Something will need to give.

 

Jeffress is out of options.

[KingKat]

Do the O's take that?

 

They should. Scoop isn't exactly a can't miss prospect.

[NorthOf49]

My first baseman team:

 

C Jordan Pacheco

1B Joey Votto

2B Kevin Youkilis

3B Mark Teixeira

SS Albert Pujols

LF Chris Carter

CF Allen Craig

RF Brandon Belt

P Chris Davis

[IBTrini]

I think a lot of people are under-estimating what the M's are asking for Franklin and Ackley

I think a lot of people are under-estimating what all GMs are trying to get from the Jays since they believe the Jays are desperate. Anthopoulos is not in a great place right now cuz he does not want to give up the rest of the farm (which I agree with) for additional missing pieces and neither does he feel it is time to sell off major pieces to rebuild the farm. Maybe he is really waiting for the trade-deadline to come around before deciding which way to go.

 

I was anxious for the start of the season but now I am also anxiously anticipating what most probably will happen at the trade-deadline as well cuz I just don't see the team doing well enough in 2014. Whichever way he decides to go it will be unpopular with some fans - those who are only interested in the "now" and those who believe in the "sustainability" route.

[mitchf]

I think a lot of people are under-estimating what all GMs are trying to get from the Jays since they believe the Jays are desperate. Anthopoulos is not in a great place right now cuz he does not want to give up the rest of the farm (which I agree with) for additional missing pieces and neither does he feel it is time to sell off major pieces to rebuild the farm. Maybe he is really waiting for the trade-deadline to come around before deciding which way to go.

 

I was anxious for the start of the season but now I am also anxiously anticipating what most probably will happen at the trade-deadline as well cuz I just don't see the team doing well enough in 2014. Whichever way he decides to go it will be unpopular with some fans - those who are only interested in the "now" and those who believe in the "sustainability" route.

Exactly this.

[kgm1]

The only way the Yankees are getting under 189 is if A-Rod gets the 211 game suspension, as they are over 189 as it is. Current projections have them over $200M as is, including benefits and taxes, along with call-ups and arb raises.

 

And if you're expecting the Yanks to get Kershaw, dream on. The Dodgers are going to resign him at any cost. Ditto for Scherzer with the Tigers and Lester in Boston. Most other "elite" options have options years for 2015 as well. So don't start think the Yanks will be able to reload.

 

I don't know where you got your info but one of the new york papers posted yesterday that the yankees were at 180-181 without Arod being suspended . So they still have 8 to 9 mil to spend and another ?? depending on what happens to Arod .

 

I expect Kershaw to either reup with LA or go to Texas . He never bought a home in LA and goes back to Dallas every chance he gets but Schertzer will be a target and so will Lester and Tanaka . They want 2 .

[Abomination]

I expect Kershaw to either reup with LA or go to Texas . He never bought a home in LA and goes back to Dallas every chance he gets but Schertzer will be a target and so will Lester and Tanaka . They want 2 .

 

Assuming the Yankees do get under this year, I would expect them to go nuts next year on pitching. I could even see them try to get Scherzer, Tanaka, AND Kershaw.

[Jimcanuck]

I think a lot of people are under-estimating what all GMs are trying to get from the Jays since they believe the Jays are desperate. Anthopoulos is not in a great place right now cuz he does not want to give up the rest of the farm (which I agree with) for additional missing pieces and neither does he feel it is time to sell off major pieces to rebuild the farm. Maybe he is really waiting for the trade-deadline to come around before deciding which way to go.

 

I was anxious for the start of the season but now I am also anxiously anticipating what most probably will happen at the trade-deadline as well cuz I just don't see the team doing well enough in 2014. Whichever way he decides to go it will be unpopular with some fans - those who are only interested in the "now" and those who believe in the "sustainability" route.

 

The other aspect of this is AA knows he got burned and burned bad last offseason and may be afraid of a repeat. If so, we should not expect much of anything to happen this offseason. Of course, we added by subtraction (JPA).

[kgm1]

I think a lot of people are under-estimating what all GMs are trying to get from the Jays since they believe the Jays are desperate. Anthopoulos is not in a great place right now cuz he does not want to give up the rest of the farm (which I agree with) for additional missing pieces and neither does he feel it is time to sell off major pieces to rebuild the farm. Maybe he is really waiting for the trade-deadline to come around before deciding which way to go.

 

I was anxious for the start of the season but now I am also anxiously anticipating what most probably will happen at the trade-deadline as well cuz I just don't see the team doing well enough in 2014. Whichever way he decides to go it will be unpopular with some fans - those who are only interested in the "now" and those who believe in the "sustainability" route.

 

Well when your already very close to your payroll limit , have little of top value on the farm to trade and the free agent market has gone bonkers you are boxed into a corner and other GM,s know that . He really screwed up last year yet it makes no sense to blow it up at least till the trade deadline . Why should he overpay ! do two wrong make a right . All these math wizards claim he is missing value but 4/45 for Infante doesn't sound like value to me and we have no idea who AA talked to for Free agents over the last 3 years and had them tell him to bug off. Beltran for sure but I'll bet lots >

[kgm1]

Assuming the Yankees do get under this year, I would expect them to go nuts next year on pitching. I could even see them try to get Scherzer, Tanaka, AND Kershaw.

 

MLB radio which I listen to lots has had them really trying to stay under the 189 so they can go crazy next year . Bowden feels however that IF Tanaka gets posted they will sign him and then the Arod thing will decide whether they are over or under .

[LunchBox]

I don't know where you got your info but one of the new york papers posted yesterday that the yankees were at 180-181 without Arod being suspended . So they still have 8 to 9 mil to spend and another ?? depending on what happens to Arod

 

They might be in the $180-181 million range if the A-Rod suspension is upheld. I'm not an expert on how payrolls are calculated with signing bonuses, money coming from other teams to offset contracts and what players are due to make in arbitration. However, even the simplest examination of the Yankee 2014 payroll:

 

A-Rod (25) + Tex (22.5) + CC (23) + Ellsbury (21) + Soriano (18) + McCann (17) + Kuroda (16) + Beltran (15) + Jeter (12) + Ichiro (6.5) + Thorton (3.5) + Wells (3) = 182.5

 

That's 12 players, Gardner and Robertson are both ARB eligible and then 11 more roster spots. So yeah, it's not even close.

[Chappy]

The Yankees are going to rebound this year.

[jaysfan2014]

Kershaw- no. He's expected to resign with L.A. Remember, they're as big as the Yankees financially.

Scherzer- Also no. Detroit freed up money to try to resign him due to the Prince Fielder trade.

Tanaka- wait and see.

[jaysfan2014]

That $200M+ was estimated to include arb raises and minimum salary players, insurance ($11M), and $5M for call-ups. Unless A-Rod gets suspended, they have nothing to spend on anything else without paying 50% extra on top of the contracts on payroll over $189M.

[Chappy]

That $200M+ was estimated to include arb raises and minimum salary players, insurance ($11M), and $5M for call-ups. Unless A-Rod gets suspended, they have nothing to spend on anything else without paying 50% extra on top of the contracts on payroll over $189M.

 

That doesn't mean they still won't spend.

[TheHurl]

They might be in the $180-181 million range if the A-Rod suspension is upheld. I'm not an expert on how payrolls are calculated with signing bonuses, money coming from other teams to offset contracts and what players are due to make in arbitration. However, even the simplest examination of the Yankee 2014 payroll:

 

A-Rod (25) + Tex (22.5) + CC (23) + Ellsbury (21) + Soriano (18) + McCann (17) + Kuroda (16) + Beltran (15) + Jeter (12) + Ichiro (6.5) + Thorton (3.5) + Wells (3) = 182.5

 

That's 12 players, Gardner and Robertson are both ARB eligible and then 11 more roster spots. So yeah, it's not even close.

 

Soriano is only $5M. Cubs pay $14M of him. So with an A-Rod suspension they really have a shot at getting under it. Although there are other items in this calculation, which aren't public so who knows.

[The_DH]

I thoughti saw something about Wells being a negative addition to the cap.

[LunchBox]

I thought that might be the case but I didn't see it listed. Turns out Cot's has a spreadsheet with 2014-2019 payroll commitments available, the current 2014 payroll listed at $177,667,857, add in the ARB guys and those making league minimum and they are right around the cap including Rodriguez. I guess they really are trying to stay under the cap and aren't anticipating the Rodriguez suspension being upheld.

 

What kind of information isn't made public, deferred payments?

[Abomination]

That doesn't mean they still won't spend.

 

No, but it does have implications beyond this year, since it resets their penalty. I mean, that's the whole point. But I agree, it doesn't mean they won't give up and dish out a few doozies.

[jaysfan2014]

Cot's doesn't include bonuses and insurance payments($11M). When those are added in, the Yanks are well over the tax.

[TheHurl]

As complicated as it all is, this is my go to document when I'm trying to figure things out. Written by some law student at Delaware I believe.

 

http://www.law.du.edu/documents/sports-and-entertainment-law-journal/issues/03/dosh-money-postseason-mlb.pdf

 

Calculating the Actual Club Payroll - Calculating a club’s payroll upon which a tax may

be assessed is a complicated matter that requires taking into account the possibility of

assignment of player contracts, termination of contracts, multi-year contracts, performance

bonuses and a whole host of other payments and payment issues. The attitude of some is very

similar to the attitude taken by some with individual taxes: find the loopholes and exploit them.

Clubs can use mechanisms of deferred compensation and other creative solutions to decrease not

only the strain of a player’s salary on the club’s budget, but also to bring the club’s aggregate

payroll down low enough to incur little or no luxury tax. Accordingly, there are very detailed

rules as to the calculation of a club’s payroll for luxury tax purposes and the Office of the

Commissioner of MLB completes the calculations.

 

As a starting point, the 1996 CBA defines “Actual Club Payroll” to be the sum of: (a)

1/28th of player benefit costs (MLB administers such things as worker’s compensation and

player pensions, so each of the 28 clubs are expected to pay their share), ( the yearly salaries of all players under a Uniform Player Contract with the club for that year, and © other sums

defined under the rules.84 The most complicated aspect of the calculation is which player

contracts, or portions of player contracts, are attributable to the current year’s Actual Club

Payroll calculation. The easiest point to start from is to include the salary, attributable to that

contract year, for each player who remains on a club’s active list for the entire season.85 While

this may sound simple, it can get far more complicated when attempting to determine the value

of a multi-year contract for any single season and when attempting to attribute deferred

compensation to any one season. For a multi-year contract, an Average Annual Value is

calculated as follows: the sum of (a) the base salary for each guaranteed year86 plus ( any

signing bonus, or portion thereof, which is attributed to a guaranteed year87 plus © any deferred

compensation attributed to a guaranteed year.88 The total sum derived from this calculation is

then divided by the number of guaranteed years to give an Average Annual Value of the contract.89 Other types of bonuses, such as performance and award bonuses, are attributable to

the year in which they are earned.90 Similarly, a contract clause which increases the base salary

in future guaranteed years for performance in a prior year is added to the Average Annual Value

for each of those years.91

As mentioned above, some player contracts include option years, which are years in a

contract that are not guaranteed, but which are exercisable at the option of either the player or

the club, depending on how the option is structured. Not surprisingly, any option year which is

exercised results in the base salary for that year being includible in the calculations for that

year’s Actual Club Payroll. However, many contracts require payment to the player of some

monies if the option is not exercised by the club, sometimes referred to as an option buyout.

These monies are deemed a signing bonus and are thus either distributed pro rata over the

guaranteed years in the contract during the Average Annual Value calculation or are attributed to

the first full year if there are no guaranteed years.92 If the player then never receives the option

buyout, there are provisions by which the club is credited or refunded the amount of the option. buyout that has already been included in the Actual Club Payroll for any previous years.93

The last complication in calculating an Actual Club Payroll relates to deferred

compensation. Put simply, deferred compensation is any amount due to a player after the last

season of his contract has been performed. This mechanism is sometimes used to defer some of

the burden of a player’s salary so that a team can afford to acquire him without taking a current

hit to its budget. Presumably because it might also be used to defer compensation to later years

in order to keep Actual Club Payroll numbers down and avoid the luxury tax, the rules are

specific as to how these monies are to be allocated in Actual Club Payroll calculations. If the

contract specifies which year(s) the deferred compensation is attributable to, then those amounts

are includible in the Actual Club Payroll for that year.94 If, however, the deferred compensation

is not attributable to any given year, the amount is prorated over the guaranteed years of the

contract.95 Included as deferred compensation is any annuity compensation arrangement, which

is an agreement by the club to purchase an annuity to pay the player after his services as a player

are over.96 The cost to the club of purchasing the annuity is includible, but not the proceeds the

player is scheduled to receive after his service as a player is over.

 

sorry for not removing all the citing but you get the idea