BP Podcast on Jays/Stroman

[Dr. Dinger]

Some choice quotes:

 

Jason Parks

 

"Their short season levels are f***ing stacked."

"This is a team that got rid of a bunch of high-end, Top 100 prospects... (but) this system might even be stronger than I had it last year."

 

 

Parks: "I had a bunch of sources on Stroman, man... my guys LOVE Stroman." (Ferrin: "He's a MOTHERf***er.")

Ferrin: "I saw him in the AFL... my god that's special. I talked to Tom Gordon about him... he said, 'Oh man he looks incredible.' "

Parks: "We ranked him #1 in that system based on the fact - or on the theory - that he WILL be in the rotation... I talked to guys that scouted him, and I stayed away from scouts in the org ... consensus was that he's a starter. It's not ideal, it's not prototypical, obviously, he's short but he's not frail. He's strong and he's a competitor in a major f***ing way. He's got balls, he's got #rig, and he's got the arsenal. He's got the cutter that he brought out in the AFL, he's got the big fastball, he's got the slider that he can manipulate... the changeup has got a lot of action to it... man, and he knows what to do with it."

 

- says Sanchez has more risk than Stroman

- "would definitely take Syndergaard over Sanchez"

- Sanchez has "crazy high ceiling" but bad reports about pitchability

- "kinda soured on (Sanchez) a bit, still think he's a Top 35 prospect"

- Tirado "is a loose arm kid"

- Norris "has really taken a step forward"

- "Arms for days"

- "Jairo Labourt is a f***ing name and a f***ing arm... big lefty kid with stuff."

- "Short season affiliates are f***ing stacked with high ceiling arms"

- "That organization is fine."

 

Ferrin: "They're the anti-Cubs: The Cubs have all the bats and the Jays have all the arms."

 

Parks: "Sean Nolin is a guy who came up and got his ******* ripped apart in that one appearance, but he's still a big pitcher with four pitches that he can move around... he's a #4/#5 type starter."

 

"That's a really good organization."

[L54]

Very encouraging.

[TBJ12]

Some of the AA haters should take note here, it looks like the Jays could find their way back into the top 10 as soon as next season.

[Dr. Dinger]

Very encouraging.

 

It's nice to hear an unbiased source raving about our system. Parks really thinks Stroman can step into the rotation right now.

[eastcoastjaysfan]

Some of the AA haters should take note here, it looks like the Jays could find their way back into the top 10 as soon as next season.

 

Most of the guys they're raving about are not even close to the majors.

 

A lot can (and will) happen in the next 2-3 years of their development.

 

The Stroman stuff is exciting though.

[theblujay]

Please please please don't trade Stroman!!

 

Kinda cool to see some praise for the guys who started to emerge this year that we were talking about in the prospect threads.

[Smokey]

Some of the AA haters should take note here, it looks like the Jays could find their way back into the top 10 as soon as next season.

 

In case you've forgotten, the ultimate goal is to win at the major league level. A top 10 system would be great and could definitely help achieve that goal but what we've seen over the past couple of years is that AA isn't capable of putting it all together.

[ElNik2013]

Some of the AA haters should take note here, it looks like the Jays could find their way back into the top 10 as soon as next season.

 

 

 

There wouldn't be much hatin' to do had AA stuck to the plan he touted so much. Also, the haters see what good shape the organization would be in had AA not gone "all in". The farm would be one of the best in MLB with players graduating to MLB, AAA, AA, A+ and all the talent in SS ball and the team would have the financial flexibility to overpay free agents to play in Toronto. We'll see what happens.

[GeorgiaPeach]

In case you've forgotten, the ultimate goal is to win at the major league level. A top 10 system would be great and could definitely help achieve that goal but what we've seen over the past couple of years is that AA isn't capable of putting it all together.

 

If he can build a farm with the best of them, let it ride. And then augment with the overpayment of free agents. Why couldn't he have done that?

[Smokey]

If he can build a farm with the best of them, let it ride. And then augment with the overpayment of free agents. Why couldn't he have done that?

 

<---- Because of him!

[o2cui2i]

Ed Zachary

[flafson]

Why so many f***ins? Class motha f***a

 

I was thinking the same thing, if he can't talk like a normal human being in public then he should stay home.

[Anemic0ffense]

Some choice quotes:

 

Jason Parks

 

"Their short season levels are f***ing stacked."

"This is a team that got rid of a bunch of high-end, Top 100 prospects... (but) this system might even be stronger than I had it last year."

 

 

Parks: "I had a bunch of sources on Stroman, man... my guys LOVE Stroman." (Ferrin: "He's a MOTHERf***er.")

Ferrin: "I saw him in the AFL... my god that's special. I talked to Tom Gordon about him... he said, 'Oh man he looks incredible.' "

Parks: "We ranked him #1 in that system based on the fact - or on the theory - that he WILL be in the rotation... I talked to guys that scouted him, and I stayed away from scouts in the org ... consensus was that he's a starter. It's not ideal, it's not prototypical, obviously, he's short but he's not frail. He's strong and he's a competitor in a major f***ing way. He's got balls, he's got #rig, and he's got the arsenal. He's got the cutter that he brought out in the AFL, he's got the big fastball, he's got the slider that he can manipulate... the changeup has got a lot of action to it... man, and he knows what to do with it."

 

- says Sanchez has more risk than Stroman

- "would definitely take Syndergaard over Sanchez"

- Sanchez has "crazy high ceiling" but bad reports about pitchability

- "kinda soured on (Sanchez) a bit, still think he's a Top 35 prospect"

- Tirado "is a loose arm kid"

- Norris "has really taken a step forward"

- "Arms for days"

- "Jairo Labourt is a f***ing name and a f***ing arm... big lefty kid with stuff."

- "Short season affiliates are f***ing stacked with high ceiling arms"

- "That organization is fine."

 

Ferrin: "They're the anti-Cubs: The Cubs have all the bats and the Jays have all the arms."

 

Parks: "Sean Nolin is a guy who came up and got his ******* ripped apart in that one appearance, but he's still a big pitcher with four pitches that he can move around... he's a #4/#5 type starter."

 

"That's a really good organization."

 

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view/547698/fap-o.gif

[Angrioter]

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view/547698/fap-o.gif

 

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view/999968/fap-fap-fap-o.gif

[43211234]

Link to podcast?

[NorthOf49]

Link to podcast?

http://pcd.dreamhosters.com/fringe_average/121613FRINGEAVERAGE.mp3

 

They talk about the Jays mid-way through. I'll never get tired of listening to Parks hype guys up. His style is really something.

[fireballW]

I'm going to regurgitate here, the 180 AA took last year has Beeston in his ear, written all over it. This essentially is what I thought he was doing, Pat Gillick style. *sighs*

 

How so? And how is it a 180? You guys just believe whatever you want. AA talked FROM THE BEGINNING of using a good farm system in trades to acquire elite talent. He did exactly what he said he would do the whole time. One of the trades was ill-advised, but in the context of the situation, if it actually got us over the hump and turned us from an 88 win team into a playoff contender, like it was supposed to, then the financial gains would have far offset the losing of the trade. AA has also admitted that there are times it might make sense to "lose" a trade and that was probably one of them in his mind, because just missing the playoffs to keep those prospects would have been kind of dumb. If the trade did what many thought it would at the time (put us into contention) the benefits financially, as well as in terms of other things like attracting free agents, would have made it pay off for sure. Not to mention that AA has shown he is EASILY one of the best GMs at building up value in his farm system.

 

Just because it is hard to look at that trade (even though a lot of people are a lot higher on D'Arnaud than I ever was), doesn't really mean this nonsense has to happen where people just continue to whine about it a year later (not you on this last part).

[Smokey]

How so? And how is it a 180? You guys just believe whatever you want. AA talked FROM THE BEGINNING of using a good farm system in trades to acquire elite talent. He did exactly what he said he would do the whole time. One of the trades was ill-advised, but in the context of the situation, if it actually got us over the hump and turned us from an 88 win team into a playoff contender, like it was supposed to, then the financial gains would have far offset the losing of the trade. AA has also admitted that there are times it might make sense to "lose" a trade and that was probably one of them in his mind, because just missing the playoffs to keep those prospects would have been kind of dumb. If the trade did what many thought it would at the time (put us into contention) the benefits financially, as well as in terms of other things like attracting free agents, would have made it pay off for sure. Not to mention that AA has shown he is EASILY one of the best GMs at building up value in his farm system.

 

Just because it is hard to look at that trade (even though a lot of people are a lot higher on D'Arnaud than I ever was), doesn't really mean this nonsense has to happen where people just continue to whine about it a year later (not you on this last part).

 

First of all, any logical person by now has realized that AA has made more than just one "ill-advised" trade over the last year and a half and you're either being dishonest or you have your head too far in the clouds if you actually think that. Secondly, saying he did "exactly what he said he would do the whole time" is nothing but horseshit! He talked about building a team that will be competing on a sustainable basis. Forget sustainable, this team has been an embarrassment to watch over the last couple years and there's no excuse for it. Besides, did you forget about all the talks of trying to emulate the Rays franchise but with a bigger budget? This team is now essentially the opposite of the Rays... They're old, inefficiently built with a very limited pool of young controllable talent ready to step in.

 

This team won 81 games in the 2011 season and AA proceeded to sit on his hands during that offseason and declared the team "not ready". A year later after winning 73 games all the sudden he decides to go all-in. If you have a logical explanation for this, I would love to hear it. He also completely neglected the importance of depth and shipped both Escobar and Hech away and left an often injured Reyes as the only above average middle infielder in the whole system. Lets not forget about the rotation that was forced to rely on guys like Chien-Ming Wang, Aaron Laffey, Ramón Ortiz, Todd Redmond and Ricky Romero.

 

So ya, in your simplistic mind he's kept his word and if "the trade did what many thought it would" everything would have been peaches and cream. Unfortunately, that's far from reality and the incompetence experienced over the past two years can't be sugar coated like your failed attempt.

[GeorgiaPeach]

How so? And how is it a 180? You guys just believe whatever you want. AA talked FROM THE BEGINNING of using a good farm system in trades to acquire elite talent. He did exactly what he said he would do the whole time. One of the trades was ill-advised, but in the context of the situation, if it actually got us over the hump and turned us from an 88 win team into a playoff contender, like it was supposed to, then the financial gains would have far offset the losing of the trade. AA has also admitted that there are times it might make sense to "lose" a trade and that was probably one of them in his mind, because just missing the playoffs to keep those prospects would have been kind of dumb. If the trade did what many thought it would at the time (put us into contention) the benefits financially, as well as in terms of other things like attracting free agents, would have made it pay off for sure. Not to mention that AA has shown he is EASILY one of the best GMs at building up value in his farm system.

 

Just because it is hard to look at that trade (even though a lot of people are a lot higher on D'Arnaud than I ever was), doesn't really mean this nonsense has to happen where people just continue to whine about it a year later (not you on this last part).

 

You're making s*** up. I've never been a fan of veterany baseball teams. And early in Alex's tenure I was one of his biggest supporters with his building of the organization. If at any point he even made reference to dealing off bunches top prospects for sketchy expensive vets, I would've been off the AA bandwagon faster than a Jays fan cried the day it was found out Halladay was in Philly for a physical.

 

There's no reason why he couldn't keep making deals like the Santos/Molina, Morrow/League trades....etc. He's gone from being creative making value upside moves, for youth, athletic, financially flexible players on the good end of the defensive spectrum for the long haul, to trading for expensive, old, poor value, now, defensively inept, sell ticket type moves for the now.

 

A complete 180.

[G-Snarls]

Stop it with the Stroman stuff

 

I'm all fapped out

 

Dammit #SaveTheStroman #DoNotTrade #SOE (Stroman over everything)

[G-Snarls]

I notice Baseball Prospectus swear a lot more than Baseball America. LOL. "He's a motherf***er". can't see the BA guys saying that.

[TRM]

You're making s*** up. I've never been a fan of veterany baseball teams. And early in Alex's tenure I was one of his biggest supporters with his building of the organization. If at any point he even made reference to dealing off bunches top prospects for sketchy expensive vets, I would've been off the AA bandwagon faster than a Jays fan cried the day it was found out Halladay was in Philly for a physical.

 

There's no reason why he couldn't keep making deals like the Santos/Molina, Morrow/League trades....etc. He's gone from being creative making value upside moves, for youth, athletic, financially flexible players on the good end of the defensive spectrum for the long haul, to trading for expensive, old, poor value, now, defensively inept, sell ticket type moves for the now.

 

A complete 180.

 

While I have mixed feelings on Gibbers, everything he said about himself in the first paragraph is completely true, and I would have a hard time disagreeing with his second paragraph.

 

What I hope (in this case probably hopelessly) want to be true is that last offseason, well pretty much anything since the Happ trade, was a result of pressure from the powers that be to compete and become relevant in the Toronto sports market, and that there is still that good GM from before inside Alex somewhere.

[Dr. Dinger]

I notice Baseball Prospectus swear a lot more than Baseball America. LOL. "He's a motherf***er". can't see the BA guys saying that.

 

They pretty much only swear on their podcasts, but I find it refreshing and unpretentious. I imagine scouts having equally vulgar conversations about players (and Parks and Ferrin know pretty much everyone).

[GeorgiaPeach]

While I have mixed feelings on Gibbers, everything he said about himself in the first paragraph is completely true, and I would have a hard time disagreeing with his second paragraph.

 

What I hope (in this case probably hopelessly) want to be true is that last offseason, well pretty much anything since the Happ trade, was a result of pressure from the powers that be to compete and become relevant in the Toronto sports market, and that there is still that good GM from before inside Alex somewhere.

 

mixed feelings?

[TRM]

mixed feelings?

 

Sometimes you are a little antagonistic and offensive. I think you definitely know your s*** though (obviously), and we have never had problems personally.

 

I should have said "while the board may have mixed feelings"...

 

Oh well, probably should have left that first sentence out, but too late now.

[Angrioter]

mixed feelings?

 

http://idsego.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/howToBeatTrueFalseTest.jpg

[Smokey]

 

What I hope (in this case probably hopelessly) want to be true is that last offseason, well pretty much anything since the Happ trade, was a result of pressure from the powers that be to compete and become relevant in the Toronto sports market, and that there is still that good GM from before inside Alex somewhere.

 

The thing is though, even if we assume that he was pressured into making some of the recent moves, what assurance is there that he will have the autonomy needed to succeed in the future? Besides, he made some glaring mistakes last offseason in neglecting the team's depth and defense which are purely on his shoulders IMO.

[GeorgiaPeach]

Sometimes you are a little antagonistic and offensive. I think you definitely know your s*** though (obviously), and we have never had problems personally.

 

I should have said "while the board may have mixed feelings"...

 

Oh well, probably should have left that first sentence out, but too late now.

 

It doesn't matter. I was just wondering what you meant by it. Being offensive and antagonistic is just me.

[TRM]

The thing is though, even if we assume that he was pressured into making some of the recent moves, what assurance is there that he will have the autonomy needed to succeed in the future? Besides, he made some glaring mistakes last offseason in neglecting the team's depth and defense which are purely on his shoulders IMO.

 

I don't disagree. Basically though, we either accept that AA is a trash GM and we are basically doomed to fail for two more years and the rebuild for 5, or we hope baselessly hope that there is a chance that the GM that flashed potential is in there somewhere. It's easier on my psyche to hope.

[TRM]

It doesn't matter. I was just wondering what you meant by it. Being offensive and antagonistic is just me.

 

And the board would be quite different without it. So for that, I thank you.