Y. Escobar, the best

[KingKat]

O.K. he's not really the best and this kind of play is exceptional but after AA cowardly gave up on him at the first time of adversity, I can't help but root for the guy and love it when he does something great.

 

http://mlb.mlb.com/shared/video/embed/embed.html?content_id=29106687&width=400&height=224&property=mlb

[Deadpool]

He's a slick fielder out there, that's for sure.

[Smokey]

Who the f*** needs a solid defensive SS with a decent bat, signed to a cheap contract for a few more years. So glad we got rid of him for peanuts

[fatcowxlive]

O.K. he's not really the best and this kind of play is exceptional but after AA cowardly gave up on him at the first time of adversity, I can't help but root for the guy and love it when he does something great.

 

http://mlb.mlb.com/shared/video/embed/embed.html?content_id=29106687&width=400&height=224&property=mlb

 

Now the Escobar fans come out?

 

Where were you guys a few months ago?

 

Escobar's great, I'm glad he's out of here though. He's too good to be in a team where the org + fans like to put him down. Glad he's having fun in Tampa

[Smokey]

Now the Escobar fans come out?

 

Where were you guys a few months ago?

 

Escobar's great, I'm glad he's out of here though. He's too good to be in a team where the org + fans like to put him down. Glad he's having fun in Tampa

 

I was never really a big fan and with his body type and often pouting personality, I didn't mind trading him for a decent return. But to just give up on him and get no value in return speaks volumes of the incompetence of this FO.

[fatcowxlive]

I was never really a big fan and with his body type and often pouting personality, I didn't mind trading him for a decent return. But to just give up on him and get no value in return speaks volumes of the incompetence of this FO.

 

But give him up for what?? Lets say we got Reyes without Escobar, why would we trade him instead of playing Reyes at 2B? Would that not solve our mayham with 2B/3B when we are constantly shuffling Izzy/Boni and moving Lawrie back and forth?

[Frag]

Funny enough, Jose Reyes is younger than Escobar and could have had a better season if it wasn't for the injury (2.3 vs. 2.8 fWAR if Reyes played as many games as Escobar)

[Smokey]

why would we trade him instead of playing Reyes at 2B?

 

They didn't trade Reyes to pay him 18 mil to play 2B. Ideally, Yunel should have been traded for a younger 2B when he still had some value.

[fatcowxlive]

They didn't trade Reyes to pay him 18 mil to play 2B. Ideally, Yunel should have been traded for a younger 2B when he still had some value.

 

Why? His bat would be tonnes better at 2B than at SS, he'd be more valuable there, especially since his range is s*** at SS.

 

You're right but the whole maricon thing led to AA selling him for less, what a dumbass

 

Kinda like Miami did with him.

 

Dietrch, he's a Dan Uggla comp, right?

[fatcowxlive]

http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=10542&position=2B

 

Pretty much, Dietrich has good power for a 2B. I woulda been happier trading Escobar for Dietrich than for Boni.

 

No kidding!

[Arkadium]

Reyes is a pretty average SS, it's such a fundamental defensive position - a good/bad SS can pretty much make or break a team. His bat seems amazing but his contract just seems too high for what he brings you on defense. Also if you compare Yunel's career numbers to Reyes'.... Reyes is not that much better and Escobar even gives you better OBP. You could say Reyes' speed sets him a part more than anything else...

[Jays]

http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=10542&position=2B

 

Pretty much, Dietrich has good power for a 2B. I woulda been happier trading Escobar for Dietrich than for Boni.

 

the sad part is how AA said Boni HAD to be included or he wouldn't do the Miami deal, he probably said Escobar HAD to be included or he wouldn't make the trade. Considering how quick Miami got rid of him, I doubt they wanted him.

[AuntieJPA]

He's not good enough for the last-place Blue Jays, but the playoff-bound Rays are sure enjoying the $25+ million in surplus value. He should be playing short this year with Reyes at 2nd, but AA is a f***ing moron.

 

And check out some of Hech's highlight reel plays. It at least would be entertaining to see his D each game.

[fatcowxlive]

He's not good enough for the last-place Blue Jays, but the playoff-bound Rays are sure enjoying the $25+ million in surplus value. He should be playing short this year with Reyes at 2nd, but AA is a f***ing moron.

 

"EYE BLACK, AND BONI GUISSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSE!!!! #LOVethISTEam" - AA

[KingKat]

I think what happened to Escobar really epitomizes AA's Dr. Jeckyll and Hyde act. At the beginning of his tenure, AA seemed to target two things in his trades, depressed assets and upside. What did Morrow, Lawrie, Escobar and Ramus all have in common? They were all assets that their respective teams had soured upon and they all still had upside. Since the Napoli trade it's been the opposite. The upside is always on the other side. So what happened? Why did AA let talent outweigh reputation when acquiring Escobar and then flip the equation right around at the first controversy? Isn't that kind of hypocritical? Kind of cowardly? And from a baseball point of view isn't it self defeating to devalue your own asset much the same way Morrow, Rasmus, Lawrie and Escobar were devalued by their previous teams? It's such a 180. I'm thinking either AA never intended to follow the Rays model for very long and figured he only needed to trade for upside in the beginning (if that's how he felt, it's certainly not what he conveyed at the time, not to mention it's stupid) or what seems more likely to me is that AA lost his nerve, lost his faith in the plan when the results didn't come or when it became harder to make high upside trades (the 2011-2012 offseason was awfully quiet). Whatever model AA's following now, it's not one of constant renewal like the A's and Rays follow. In the current model, after acquiring upside for several years, you decide that it's time to flip a switch and piss upside out the window.

 

What the f*** happened? Were we duped all along or did AA's vision get warped?

[8D]

Now the Escobar fans come out?

 

Where were you guys a few months ago?

 

Escobar's great, I'm glad he's out of here though. He's too good to be in a team where the org + fans like to put him down. Glad he's having fun in Tampa

 

I've always loved escobar and always will. but he's a dumbass. you just can't do that s*** at the professional level.

but i still like his show boating, but his whinniness sometime annoys me.

[Boxcar]

I think what happened to Escobar really epitomizes AA's Dr. Jeckyll and Hyde act. At the beginning of his tenure, AA seemed to target two things in his trades, depressed assets and upside. What did Morrow, Lawrie, Escobar and Ramus all have in common? They were all assets that their respective teams had soured upon and they all still had upside. Since the Napoli trade it's been the opposite. The upside is always on the other side. So what happened? Why did AA let talent outweigh reputation when acquiring Escobar and then flip the equation right around at the first controversy? Isn't that kind of hypocritical? Kind of cowardly? And from a baseball point of view isn't it self defeating to devalue your own asset much the same way Morrow, Rasmus, Lawrie and Escobar were devalued by their previous teams? It's such a 180. I'm thinking either AA never intended to follow the Rays model for very long and figured he only needed to trade for upside in the beginning (if that's how he felt, it's certainly not what he conveyed at the time, not to mention it's stupid) or what seems more likely to me is that AA lost his nerve, lost his faith in the plan when the results didn't come or when it became harder to make high upside trades (the 2011-2012 offseason was awfully quiet). Whatever model AA's following now, it's not one of constant renewal like the A's and Rays follow. In the current model, after acquiring upside for several years, you decide that it's time to flip a switch and piss upside out the window.

 

What the f*** happened? Were we duped all along or did AA's vision get warped?

 

We were duped. AA really fluked into those deals, IMO, seeing how he's surrounded himself with the same idiots for his entire tenure.

 

Really, you'd think a smart person in his position would learn from this and think that maybe he should rely on a bit more than a subjective scouting grade on a big league ball player, but I really doubt he will change his operation. Keep wasting time and resources sending scouts to watch established players. Good job Alex!

[8D]

I think what happened to Escobar really epitomizes AA's Dr. Jeckyll and Hyde act. At the beginning of his tenure, AA seemed to target two things in his trades, depressed assets and upside. What did Morrow, Lawrie, Escobar and Ramus all have in common? They were all assets that their respective teams had soured upon and they all still had upside. Since the Napoli trade it's been the opposite. The upside is always on the other side. So what happened? Why did AA let talent outweigh reputation when acquiring Escobar and then flip the equation right around at the first controversy? Isn't that kind of hypocritical? Kind of cowardly? And from a baseball point of view isn't it self defeating to devalue your own asset much the same way Morrow, Rasmus, Lawrie and Escobar were devalued by their previous teams? It's such a 180. I'm thinking either AA never intended to follow the Rays model for very long and figured he only needed to trade for upside in the beginning (if that's how he felt, it's certainly not what he conveyed at the time, not to mention it's stupid) or what seems more likely to me is that AA lost his nerve, lost his faith in the plan when the results didn't come or when it became harder to make high upside trades (the 2011-2012 offseason was awfully quiet). Whatever model AA's following now, it's not one of constant renewal like the A's and Rays follow. In the current model, after acquiring upside for several years, you decide that it's time to flip a switch and piss upside out the window.

 

What the f*** happened? Were we duped all along or did AA's vision get warped?

 

Well didn't AA often say that when it was time, he would overpay for the right deal? I think of Dickey for TDA+NS.

He probably felt his core was good enough, especially after the Marlins trade to really go for it.

He probably felt there was an avenue to potentially contend years earlier than expected, and I think the Marlins trade was the catalyst.

 

The Napoli trade I think ppl far too often blame him prematurely. I'm pretty sure he went after FF because he was a Type A at the time and

was a good bet to retain that value or at least go to Tybe B, which he eventually ended up. Sometimes going for the pick; and in this sense,

trying to exploit that CBA, bites you in the ass. But at least Jays ended up with Matt Smoral. A pick everyone adored at the time.

And did ppl really expect Napoli to break out like he did? Using traditional stats his avg dipped a lot his trade year and his OBP and OPS was

on a two year decline. Using adv. metrics, his BB% was declining the past two season as with his wRC+. Not to mention his other stats like ISO.

Plus, he's a defensive liability. I think most ppl didn't expect Napoli to break out but only complained after the fact.

BTW, you guys remember mama napoli's nipslip? lolool

[Jimcanuck]

I don't mind the Napoli trade at all... at the time it was a perfectly rational move

 

Happ was baffling, but ok. Miami was trading young and cheap for old and expensive but OK, filled a bunch of holes and the farm still retained a good number of A grade prospects.

 

Then the Dickey trade came..... UGH. Two A grade prospects out the door for a 38 year old????

 

AA took a ridiculous risk. What will be a career ending risk, when Syndergaard is a rookie phenom and Dickey is a #4 innings eater.

[Dick_Pole]

I don't get why people dwell on Napoli all the time. The main purpose of that trade was to get rid of Wells. For whatever reason he didn't feel he needed Napoli on the team and the main mission was accomplished. Blaming him for the bad Napoli trade outside of the greater context isn't fair imo.

[AdamGreenwood]

Even though we're dead last in the AL East, and have multiple huge contracts weighing us down for the next few years, the important thing is that we've shown our zero tolerance policy towards homophobia.

[DuckDuckGose]

Funny enough, Jose Reyes is younger than Escobar and could have had a better season if it wasn't for the injury (2.3 vs. 2.8 fWAR if Reyes played as many games as Escobar)

 

Contracts aside does anyone actually think Escobar is better than Reyes? IMO that's crazy talk, Reyes is heads above Yunel in talent. Getting in to contract value/health definitely muddies the water but, one player is clearly superior when on the field.

[DuckDuckGose]

I think what happened to Escobar really epitomizes AA's Dr. Jeckyll and Hyde act. At the beginning of his tenure, AA seemed to target two things in his trades, depressed assets and upside. What did Morrow, Lawrie, Escobar and Ramus all have in common? They were all assets that their respective teams had soured upon and they all still had upside. Since the Napoli trade it's been the opposite. The upside is always on the other side. So what happened? Why did AA let talent outweigh reputation when acquiring Escobar and then flip the equation right around at the first controversy? Isn't that kind of hypocritical? Kind of cowardly? And from a baseball point of view isn't it self defeating to devalue your own asset much the same way Morrow, Rasmus, Lawrie and Escobar were devalued by their previous teams? It's such a 180. I'm thinking either AA never intended to follow the Rays model for very long and figured he only needed to trade for upside in the beginning (if that's how he felt, it's certainly not what he conveyed at the time, not to mention it's stupid) or what seems more likely to me is that AA lost his nerve, lost his faith in the plan when the results didn't come or when it became harder to make high upside trades (the 2011-2012 offseason was awfully quiet). Whatever model AA's following now, it's not one of constant renewal like the A's and Rays follow. In the current model, after acquiring upside for several years, you decide that it's time to flip a switch and piss upside out the window.

 

What the f*** happened? Were we duped all along or did AA's vision get warped?

 

Can't win a championship with a team of the Yunel's/Rasmus'/Morrow's of the world. Need to replace some of those value players with elite talent at some point.

[Arkadium]

Can't win a championship with a team of the Yunel's/Rasmus'/Morrow's of the world. Need to replace some of those value players with elite talent at some point.

 

Not biting.

 

P.S.> GTFO

[DuckDuckGose]

Not biting.

 

P.S.> GTFO

 

Biting? Wasn't a troll post.

 

AA needed to make upgrades to contend. The value moves were great at the time and brought in much needed assets. However, at some point you have to add elite talent to win. That is what AA rightly attempted to do, I don't think he went about it the right way but, if the plan was to win the core wasn't good enough and he needed to make moves.

[Arkadium]

Biting? Wasn't a troll post.

 

Are you sure? Because I'm not so sure.

[DuckDuckGose]

Are you sure? Because I'm not so sure.

 

Why don't you make a poll and find out

[Arkadium]

Why don't you make a poll and find out

 

Let's not kid ourselves, you are not poll-worthy.

[Nox]

Contracts aside does anyone actually think Escobar is better than Reyes? IMO that's crazy talk, Reyes is heads above Yunel in talent.

 

Zips has Reyes about half a win better over a full season. Steamer has them equivalent. Chone likes Escobar better.

 

They're not in different tiers talent wise at all.

[DuckDuckGose]

Let's not kid ourselves, you are not poll-worthy.

 

You understand people don't value your opinions, right? You understand that you make polls because you are incapable of meaningful, value-added, insightful commentary. Conversing with you is pandering to the lowest common denominator, a plea to forgoing rational thought, a window in to the musings of a fool.