Jays in The Pitching Market

[The Cats Ass]

“I had a club I talked to (Monday) night, they said another week to 10 days” - AA

 

Some of the names being thrown around in the article are Lee, Iwakuma, Peavy, and E. Santana. I would take any of those, but I'd be scared to think on what we would have to give up for the first 2 names. I'm curious to who AA was talking about when saying that? Or maybe he just said that to make it look like he was trying to do something...

 

http://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/mlb/wang-rocked-early-often-in-jays-loss-to-tigers/

[DuckDuckGose]

No denying Lee is the best player however, IMO Iwakuma or Peavy will provide great results while minimizing cost and payroll.

[DwightDM]

Iwakuma would be $ value and is locked up for a couple more years. I'm a big fan of him and would move any prospect(s) not named Sanchez to get it done.

[Angrioter]

Peavy should be back from his fluke injury in 10-15 days, maybe the White Sox would prefer to have him healthy to get full value.

 

Peavy's value is high. 14.5M '14 is very good.

[DwightDM]

We do know that AA wanted Peavy before, so wouldn't be surprised to see that.

[HERPDERP]

Dickey

Johnson

Buehrle

Peavy

Morrow

[DwightDM]

Dickey

Johnson

Buehrle

Peavy

Morrow

 

So much sexier on paper than in reality this year

[DuckDuckGose]

Lee will cripple our flexibility and cost top prospects. Peavy is the guy.

 

I agree entirely but, at the end of the day Lee is the best player. If they can afford him how could you not get excited about bringing in a top 5 pitcher in baseball? From Rogers' perspective the hype would jump right back up to preseason levels. It would make this team a lot better than any other player on the market and give them a true ace for the one-game-playoff.

[G-Snarls]

Peavy is a stud and a great clubhouse guy. Affordable and not 38 years old. Fits into the window AA has set.

 

Get him AA.

 

Can't afford not to

 

He gets JJ's $ for 2014 and we get a draft pick

 

We get people back off the DL

[HERPDERP]

You guys can want pitching as much as you want but that's not going to solve our problems with Dick & Longjohns

[Angrioter]

peavy

johnson

buehrle

dickey

morrow

 

 

depth

happ

rogers

stroman

nolin 2.0

 

 

ftfy

[HERPDERP]

Why does Nolin have a 2.0?

[The Cats Ass]

Peavy should be back from his fluke injury in 10-15 days, maybe the White Sox would prefer to have him healthy to get full value.

 

I thought of that too and could really see us getting him. Peavy is the most likely target I think.

 

Iwakuma would be $ value and is locked up for a couple more years. I'm a big fan of him and would move any prospect(s) not named Sanchez to get it done.

 

Iwakuma would be a great option, I really like his K/BB ratio. He's performed like a #1/#2 ever since he started starting last year, so it's not just been this year that he's dominated. With all of the Mariner's SP prospects coming up I can see them dealing Iwakuma, but I'm not sure how cheap he would be though. And we would have control of him until 2018 I think.

[Angrioter]

I agree entirely but, at the end of the day Lee is the best player. If they can afford him how could you not get excited about bringing in a top 5 pitcher in baseball? From Rogers' perspective the hype would jump right back up to preseason levels. It would make this team a lot better than any other player on the market and give them a true ace for the one-game-playoff.

 

Salary

Peavy 2014 14,5M + 2015 player option

Lee 2014: $25M, 2015: $25M 2016 Team Option: $27.5M ($12.5M buyout)

[Laika]

Go big or go home. Cliff Lee (with Utley in tow).

 

Worst case scenario for the Blue Jays is to get cold feet right now, end up as an ~85 win team, miss the playoffs, and then still have a bleak long term picture.

 

The long term picture is bleak no matter what they do at this point.

[G-Snarls]

The truth is this:

 

AA is too committed to this season to NOT add a starter at the deadline

 

He will add somebody. (Hopefully someone who costs more $ than prospects)

 

This off season after guys are back he may have an excess of starters and can deal for prospects and draft picks

[Angrioter]

Why does Nolin have a 2.0?

 

The same Nolin, but with more confidence (AA rush him and destroyed his mind)

[DuckDuckGose]

I thought of that too and could really see us getting him. Peavy is the most likely target I think.

 

 

 

Iwakuma would be a great option, I really like his K/BB ratio. He's performed like a #1/#2 ever since he started starting last year, so it's not just been this year that he's dominated. With all of the Mariner's SP prospects coming up I can see them dealing Iwakuma, but I'm not sure how cheap he would be though. And we would have control of him until 2018 I think.

 

I'd love to add Iwakuma, pitchers coming from Safeco always scare me a bit but, I've seen him enough that I'm fairly confident in his stuff.

[DuckDuckGose]

Salary

Peavy 2014 14,5M + 2015 player option

Lee 2014: $25M, 2015: $25M 2016 Team Option: $27.5M ($12.5M buyout)

 

Except Peavy can't even hold a candle to Lee's talent. He's getting paid like an ace because he is an ace, it's not like he is on a terrible contract. Peavy is a #2/3 and paid like it. Both will cost top prospects and it's not my money so as a fan why would I not want the best player back.

[DuckDuckGose]

Go big or go home. Cliff Lee (with Utley in tow).

 

Worst case scenario for the Blue Jays is to get cold feet right now, end up as an ~85 win team, miss the playoffs, and then still have a bleak long term picture.

 

The long term picture is bleak no matter what they do at this point.

 

If you are giving up a top prospect may as well us it to get an ace under 3 years of control and fill the gaping hole in the MIF.

[Angrioter]

Except Peavy can't even hold a candle to Lee's talent. He's getting paid like an ace because he is an ace, it's not like he is on a terrible contract. Peavy is a #2/3 and paid like it. Both will cost top prospects and it's not my money so as a fan why would I not want the best player back.

 

2014 35 Philadelphia Phillies $25,000,000

2015 36 Philadelphia Phillies $25,000,000

2016 37 Philadelphia Phillies *$27,500,000 $27.5M Vesting Option, $12.5M Buyout

 

37 years old Ace?

I prefer trade for Iwakuma, lower price and a significant improvement over what we have.

[DuckDuckGose]

2014 35 Philadelphia Phillies $25,000,000

2015 36 Philadelphia Phillies $25,000,000

2016 37 Philadelphia Phillies *$27,500,000 $27.5M Vesting Option, $12.5M Buyout

 

37 years old Ace?

I prefer trade for Iwakuma, lower price and a significant improvement over what we have.

 

Cliff Lee

 

2013 fWAR - 3.5 (to date)

2012 fWAR - 4.9

2011 fWAR - 6.4

2010 fWAR - 7.0

2009 fWAR - 6.5

2008 fWAR - 7.1

 

Jake Peavy

 

2013 fWAR - 1.3 (to date)

2012 fWAR - 4.5

2011 fWAR - 3.1

2010 fWAR - 1.7

2009 fWAR - 2.5

2008 fWAR - 2.9

 

Lee's worst season over the last 6 years was better than Peavy's best. That's why you would go out and get Lee, we are all aware how much he makes. Lee is a significantly better pitcher at this point in their respective careers.

[DuckDuckGose]

Lee is worth the money but I don't know if they can afford him. Beeston says they have money, but will they venture into the $170M+ range without first making the playoffs? I don't know. Peavy just takes up Johnson + Oliver's money, you don't have to fit it in.

 

Lee will take an elite prospect (Sanchez), Philly has no reason to trade him otherwise. But Peavy would take a lesser prospect which I think makes more sense. They can spend on another bat too if they get Peavy.

 

If the Jays can't afford him that's fine, I wouldn't expect them to go after him then. If they can afford him though, why wouldn't you want Cliff Lee?

 

I also don't think Peavy would take a lesser prospect. IMO both Lee and Peavy are going to take one of Stroman, Osuna or Sanchez teh difference would be Lee is going to take a couple more high end pieces to get it done.

[Angrioter]

Cliff Lee

 

2013 fWAR - 3.5 (to date)

2012 fWAR - 4.9

2011 fWAR - 6.4

2010 fWAR - 7.0

2009 fWAR - 6.5

2008 fWAR - 7.1

 

Jake Peavy

 

2013 fWAR - 1.3 (to date)

2012 fWAR - 4.5

2011 fWAR - 3.1

2010 fWAR - 1.7

2009 fWAR - 2.5

2008 fWAR - 2.9

 

Lee's worst season over the last 6 years was better than Peavy's best. That's why you would go out and get Lee, we are all aware how much he makes. Lee is a significantly better pitcher at this point in their respective careers.

 

Lee is much better pitcher, no doubt. I mean the financial cost and the number of years under control.

[eastcoastjaysfan]

Go big or go home. Cliff Lee (with Utley in tow).

 

Worst case scenario for the Blue Jays is to get cold feet right now, end up as an ~85 win team, miss the playoffs, and then still have a bleak long term picture.

 

The long term picture is bleak no matter what they do at this point.

 

Really though.

 

This is not a 5 year sustainable machine.

 

The window is maybe 2 years until Bautista and Edwin fall off a cliff.

 

Go for it.

[G-Snarls]

If the Jays can't afford him that's fine, I wouldn't expect them to go after him then. If they can afford him though, why wouldn't you want Cliff Lee?

 

I also don't think Peavy would take a lesser prospect. IMO both Lee and Peavy are going to take one of Stroman, Osuna or Sanchez teh difference would be Lee is going to take a couple more high end pieces to get it done.

 

The biggest barrier at getting Lee or Utley (and I love both players) is Amro Jr. He seems so delusional about the Phiilies still being contenders, and about his contracts being reasonable. Neither is true obviously.

[G-Snarls]

Really though.

 

This is not a 5 year sustainable machine.

 

The window is maybe 2 years until Bautista and Edwin fall off a cliff.

 

Go for it.

 

I can't believe I agree with this but the truth? That's where we're at.

 

A front of the rotation starter and an upgrade at 2B or catcher probably puts us over the top for this year and the next 1-2 years as well.

 

After that...

[G-Snarls]

A big part of what sucks? So many of these guys could be acquired via free agency, costing no prospects and at most a draft pick

 

Yu Darvish, Annibal Sanchez, Zack Grienke, etc al

 

If you later have to trade to acquire guys like this, you end paying the big $ on their contracts anyway, and have to pay in prospects too. The only upside is you have fewer years on big $, but that's not even always a good thing for a guy going in to his late 30's while you still have him, as you may have missed his best years.

 

Edit: For the record I would not have been on board with the Grienke contract - no way no how

[DuckDuckGose]

I can't believe I agree with this but the truth? That's where we're at.

 

A front of the rotation starter and an upgrade at 2B or catcher probably puts us over the top for this year and the next 1-2 years as well.

 

After that...

 

Already went for it, half measures wont cut it anymore.

[connorp]

In regards to Lee, time would be better spent dreaming of winning the lottery and banging supermodels. No way he comes here. Jays are no doubt on his no-trade list.