A Very Darrelly Dynasty League

[The Cats Ass]

Ugh, disagree, I'm forced to hope his career is a failure now.

 

but so many hats. they're not hat's I'd wear. But they're hats

[GD]

RE: Co-Managers

 

The DDL's policy is that we frown upon co-managers. They are not strictly against the rules and their benefits in certain circumstances are clear. However, in the league's opinion too many co-managers is a net negative that makes league activity awkward and annoying.

 

Should I tell North he's no longer welcome?

[Spanky99]

Should I tell North he's no longer welcome?

 

Yes.

[Dr. Dinger]

I guess we need to discuss compensation once again.

[z3r0s]

After some very brief thought, I'd say some sort of comp is required (just nothing on the scale of the other comps). We've set the prescient that a death is different to a sudden career ending injury.

 

Yordano didn't have the success of the other guys, but its hard to argue the potential and he was only 25.

Off the top of my head, I'd say a draft or waiver pick (not 1-1 or anything) would be reasonable.

[GD]

If Yordano's owner had put him up for trade, what would someone have offered?

[z3r0s]

If Yordano's owner had put him up for trade, what would someone have offered?

 

Dec 15:

to z3r0s; C-Mart, Alex Wood, some RP who will be dropped

to TCA; Dansby Swanson, Yordano Ventura, Zack Collins

[Dr. Dinger]

If Yordano's owner had put him up for trade, what would someone have offered?

 

Exactly. Compensation should be commensurate with trade value. What would Yordano get? A 1st? Probably not a Top 5 1st, but maybe I'm wrong.

[BTS]

Maybe I'm in the minority, but I don't think mediocre assets require compensation. Yordano playing to projections makes him a borderline keeper. I think compensation should only happen for hugely valuable assets.

[Dr. Dinger]

Maybe I'm in the minority, but I don't think mediocre assets require compensation. Yordano playing to projections makes him a borderline keeper. I think compensation should only happen for hugely valuable assets.

 

I think it's a sliding scale. Assets that have no value require no compensation, but I don't think Ventura is a guy who would have ended up in the waiver draft.

[Abomination]

Exactly. Compensation should be commensurate with trade value. What would Yordano get? A 1st? Probably not a Top 5 1st, but maybe I'm wrong.

 

For the BBDL I'm tentatively thinking either pick 20b + pick 40b (sandwich picks basically) in 2017, or pick 10b in 2018 (owner's choice which they prefer). I haven't talked to Cyborg about it yet though.

[Dr. Dinger]

For the BBDL I'm tentatively thinking either pick 20b + pick 40b (sandwich picks basically) in 2017, or pick 10b in 2018 (owner's choice which they prefer). I haven't talked to Cyborg about it yet though.

 

20B seems about right to me.

[BTS]

I think it's a sliding scale. Assets that have no value require no compensation, but I don't think Ventura is a guy who would have ended up in the waiver draft.

 

I dunno, if Ian Kennedy was killed in a hate crime against gingers I wouldn't expect compensation, and he's better than Ventura. I always saw the compensation as a way to help people who suffer a franchise-crippling loss.

[Dr. Dinger]

I didn't know he was a ginger, that changes everything.

[KingKat]

It seems like Ventura was an asset with a very high probability of providing no value and becoming essentially worthless (if he wasn't already). An accident is a freaky way for that outcome to happen but him becoming worthless is well within predictable outcomes all the same. This is not a compensation scenario IMO.

[Abomination]

It seems like Ventura was an asset with a very high probability of providing no value and becoming essentially worthless (if he wasn't already). An accident is a freaky way for that outcome to happen but him becoming worthless is well within predictable outcomes all the same. This is not a compensation scenario IMO.

 

Well, he was only 25, can hit triple digits, and put up a 3.74 and 3.60 xFIP in his age 23 and 24 seasons. It's not unreasonable to think he still had a decent chance of reaching his potential. It would be totally different if he was 30 or something imo.

[Dr. Dinger]

Well, he was only 25, can hit triple digits, and put up a 3.74 and 3.60 xFIP in his age 23 and 24 seasons. It's not unreasonable to think he still had a decent chance of reaching his potential. It would be totally different if he was 30 or something imo.

 

Agreed. His fantasy value during 2014-2015 was comparable to Marcus Stroman now. I think based on his age and ceiling he was objectively a keeper for some team.

[z3r0s]

I dunno, if Ian Kennedy was killed in a hate crime against gingers I wouldn't expect compensation, and he's better than Ventura. I always saw the compensation as a way to help people who suffer a franchise-crippling loss.

 

Ian Kennedy is 32, Yordano was 25.

 

It seems like Ventura was an asset with a very high probability of providing no value and becoming essentially worthless (if he wasn't already). An accident is a freaky way for that outcome to happen but him becoming worthless is well within predictable outcomes all the same. This is not a compensation scenario IMO.

 

If you were basing his 'worth' on last year and his projections, then he probably wasn't worth much. But that's ingoring his age, pedigree, and 2 very successful season in 14 and 15. Projections are heavily weighted to the last season (I have that right right?), so he's getting doubly penalized for 2016 if you are just using that and his projection.

 

Yordano was definitely an asset. Compensation at the back end of round 1 is justified to me.

[TheHurl]

I only have 3 starters right now. I will be looking at the list of drop pitchers and probably offer a late pick for one that eats innings. Ventura would fit that bill. If we are talking comp I'd say a mid pick.

[jaysblue]

If Yordano's owner had put him up for trade, what would someone have offered?

 

I offered Randal Grichuk back in the summer straight up. Also, would offer a late 1st rounder easily.

[z3r0s]

I only have 3 starters right now. I will be looking at the list of drop pitchers and probably offer a late pick for one that eats innings. Ventura would fit that bill. If we are talking comp I'd say a mid pick.

 

You wouldn't get him for a late pick. I for one would have outbid you (if I had the picks).

[Fearthedoc]

A sandwich pick in between 20 and 21 seems fair to me.

 

I just think of it in terms of what I would offer for Ventura.

 

Out of curioisty, what did we comp for Jose Fernandez?

[z3r0s]

A sandwich pick in between 20 and 21 seems fair to me.

 

I just think of it in terms of what I would offer for Ventura.

 

Out of curioisty, what did we comp for Jose Fernandez?

 

Any two unowned prospects (eligible or not). Hurl picked Otani and Maitan. Both don't count against his prospect cap until they play pro ball

[TheHurl]

You wouldn't get him for a late pick. I for one would have outbid you (if I had the picks).

 

Yeah I understand that. I'm just not in a position to throw away higher picks and I have all the leverage in a trade for a player about to be dropped. Has TCA even said if he'd be keeping him?

[TheHurl]

I offered Randal Grichuk back in the summer straight up. Also, would offer a late 1st rounder easily.

 

A sandwich pick in between 20 and 21 seems fair to me.

 

I just think of it in terms of what I would offer for Ventura.

 

two have spoken (four with Dinger and z3r0s). Personally I'd say anything between 21 and 61 and I wouldn't complain.

[The Cats Ass]

Yeah I understand that. I'm just not in a position to throw away higher picks and I have all the leverage in a trade for a player about to be dropped. Has TCA even said if he'd be keeping him?

 

Ventura was 100% a keeper for me, no way would I have moved him for a mid round pick(3rd round?). He's a 25 year old starter who can hit 100MPH. Had good showings in 2014/15, and even the 2nd half of this season. Some people seem to devalue him because he's just so unlikable and hard to root for. I'll be fine with whatever you guys decide though.

[KingKat]

I feel like we've discussed this scenario before hypothetically and concluded that players with a high probability of washing out of baseball shouldn't net you compensation. At most, he should be worth something like the 5th overall waiver pick.

[z3r0s]

Do you seriously consider Ventura to fit that mold? A likely candidate to wash out of baseball?

The guy with the high 90's heater who is a year removed from consecutive seasons of 3.6 FIP?

The guy KC gave a 5 year extension to, pre-arbitration?

 

Its clear you never liked the guy, but think a little more objectively about it.

[Laika]

My knee-jerk reaction was that Ventura isn't in the class of players we meant to compensate. We can't pretend that 2016 didn't happen. It did, it was real bad, and it affected his projections and his value. If Shelby Miller died right now would we compensate his death?

 

So far we've compensated for Jose Fernandez, a bona-fide Ace in his youth and arguably the #2 or #3 SP in Dynasty, and Oscar Taveras, the arguable #1 prospect in baseball at the time of his death. Those were Dynasty cornerstone assets. Ventura was a SP6 on a good team in our league. Even when he was good, it's not like he was great at K/BB, K/9, or OBPA - he was probably an SP4 on a decent team.

 

We've also never given compensation proportionate to what a player's trade value at time of death would have been. I'm pretty sure TheHurl would not have traded Fernandez for two prospects 3+ years away. I'm pretty sure Boxcar would not have traded Oscar for two draft picks, no matter how high. IF we decide to give something for the loss of Ventura 20b seems high to me. I don't know if I would have been willing to trade pick 21 for Ventura...

 

I recognize that Ventura was much better in 2014 and 2015, and that he still had a lot of upside, and that he was still very young. Those things are points in favour of him being worth compensation. But, this would severely lower the floor and set a different precedent for this type of thing. IF we compensate for Yordano then we are essentially committing to compensate for every objectively keeper quality player that dies.

 

I'm open minded and reading every comment here though.

 

We wrote the compensation rule with specific language. I would encourage people to refer to it.

[jaysblue]

My knee-jerk reaction was that Ventura isn't in the class of players we meant to compensate. We can't pretend that 2016 didn't happen. It did, it was real bad, and it affected his projections and his value. If Shelby Miller died right now would we compensate his death?

 

So far we've compensated for Jose Fernandez, a bona-fide Ace in his youth and arguably the #2 or #3 SP in Dynasty, and Oscar Taveras, the arguable #1 prospect in baseball at the time of his death. Those were Dynasty cornerstone assets. Ventura was a SP6 on a good team in our league. Even when he was good, it's not like he was great at K/BB, K/9, or OBPA - he was probably an SP4 on a decent team.

 

We've also never given compensation proportionate to what a player's trade value at time of death would have been. I'm pretty sure TheHurl would not have traded Fernandez for two prospects 3+ years away. I'm pretty sure Boxcar would not have traded Oscar for two draft picks, no matter how high. IF we decide to give something for the loss of Ventura 20b seems high to me. I don't know if I would have been willing to trade pick 21 for Ventura...

 

I recognize that Ventura was much better in 2014 and 2015, and that he still had a lot of upside, and that he was still very young. Those things are points in favour of him being worth compensation. But, this would severely lower the floor and set a different precedent for this type of thing. IF we compensate for Yordano then we are essentially committing to compensate for every objectively keeper quality player that dies.

 

I'm open minded and reading every comment here though.

 

We wrote the compensation rule with specific language. I would encourage people to refer to it.

 

Great points made. Even the return Hurl got for Jose Fernandez wasn't proportionate to what his exact trade value was.