Jays24

Adamas, Teo and O'neill got reasonable deals from the top of my head. Also, when you can't build a farm system and have to rely on free agency to fill all your gaps then you better expect to lose a comp pick here and there. It's obviously not ideal but the position they put themselves in.

100% agreed. I think posters like me don't give a crap if he's 1/10 or 4/10... he gets a failing grade of where we are currently regardless. We've all been arguing semantics on this board all off-season simply because this team hasn't given us anything to do otherwise. In a reasonable world, we would all stay quiet until the off-season ends and we all know where we stand heading into next season but we don't live in that world. It's the good/bad of always being connected to information lol.

But when those downgrades started to be made, many of those same posters were fighting against those who saw the obvious flaws. It seems like a shock to some of you but many of us saw stupid move after stupid move after 2022 and haven't been shocked with where we ended up based on that. It doesn't make any of us happy to be part of a **** product we all gotta suffer through. Heck, even with all that said, there is still a path for the Jays to be good next year. Tons of impact players who fill our weaknesses are still available. It's just going to come down to whether the original prices will come down and whether we will spend our way out of this mess. It's "doom and gloom" until the results show us otherwise lol.

I actually made that bet on JaysBlue's advice because I agreed with him that the Jays will go big this off-season after being embarrassed in every fashion the last off-season. While I didn't think they'd actually win the world series, I thought the odds were going to shrink greatly. Also, i think you're confusing what I want to happen (Jays being successful) with what is actually happening (Jays being unsuccessful). That is what leads to mine and several other posters "whining" on the board. There is a continent on the board that seems to back up everything this front office has done who have totally flipped. Maybe they should look back at the comments that were being made in real time when they were trying to "bully" people off this board because they didn't agree with theirs and the front offices approach

I actually bet on the Jays making the world series and also winning the world series using the same logic before the off-season started. Couple of months later and I regret not using that money on drugs/alcohol lol.

Haha that just made my day, thank you

The fact we're looking 10 years back tells you how pathetic our current situation is lol.

But this is why the fans handled the pain from 2017 to 2019 because we knew Shatkins needed time to rebuild the system for "sustainable winning." Those conmen threw around all the right buzzwords that they seem to have forget about now lol. Let's not forget the best player of the Shatkins era was Vlad and some credit AA's people for drafting Bo. No one will view Shatkins in the same breath as AA, especially when you consider what AA went onto do with the Braves. We're comparing one of the best league execs to a guy who will struggle to ever that the same role in baseball again.

AA sold the farm that he built... it's no different than what Shatkins has done now with a team but with a team that wasnt as good as the 2015 squad. And I know you don't believe AA "chose" to leave. No one with any self worth would have stayed in that position where he was working under a guy he thought he was better than. He clearly went onto show with RESULTS why he didn't stay lol.

But we can all agree that AA provided the best possible team and the closest feeling we got for a world series in 2015. Objectively, we had the best and most entertaining team in baseball, no team reached that level since '93. Would have loved to see AA have the ability to see it through but Rogers had already ****ed up with hiring Shapiro and there was no going back from there. There was a lot of backlash during that time and looks even worse now.

Not even sure what were arguing here... it's been known that the best part of Shapiro has been his skill to get Rogers to spend money. It's not only having a top 10 payroll in baseball while still going after Ohtani/Soto in back to back years that would put us in areas where we haven't been since the back to back championships relative to everyone else. The Jays have spent a crapload on building that Florida complex that was supposed to give us a competitive advantage and then we spent a crapload on the Rogers Center renovations that were also supposed to attract players. When you combine the resources at Shatkins disposal, their tenure has been a failure. If not for the expanded playoffs and also the balanced schedule where you don't have to play within your division so often, what real success did they achieve in retrospect? It sure as hell wasn't the 0 playoff wins where the glaring team weaknesses were exposed in each of those years. 2021 was my favorite team and there was a lot of promise but let's not forget the crap seasons we experienced in 2017/2018/2019 to get to that spot. This franchise went from being seen as one of the best in 2021/2022 to becoming a big joke by 2024... that's quite a feat and depressing for all stakeholders involved.

So the Jays will clearly make their biggest move of the off-season during this downtime right? Lol

Who would have thought this would be the most exciting news of the Blue Jays off-season loll

Starting rotation and defense should be the least of our concerns tbh... we need to focus all our available resources on offense and the bullpen. We're fine with settling for the best cheapest starting pitching option available. The same isn't true for the other spots.

The other side is that our bullpen also improves with the move as Yariel immediately becomes one of our best arms there. And agree about the power... I've been complaining about this ever since we got rid of Teo lol. Gonna need at least 2 power bats no matter what we do with the pitching.

Of course we can... please take a look at the responses provided by the same folks as well. It's like they're the ones who are trolling at this point. And no, not everything this management team has done is idiotic. Max just made an excellent point where we all agreed. Team made great moves until 2021 but didn't want to keep their own players by either undervaluing those players or overestimating their farm system/ability to get equal replacements via trade/ability.

It's so funny that the same Shatkins stans have the same responses to people's criticisms. They must be on the Jays payroll because they can't be this blind can they lol.

Nope, they are stupid for creating the environment where it would seem dumb for any big free agent to sign here longterm in our current situation

Exactly... it's actually common sense that any free agent we try to speak to would ask "how are you trying to sell me long term when you (the management) and our best players (Bo/Vlad) can all not be here starting next year." This is where I put all the blame on Rogers for ****ing us in the most important off-season. Atkins needed to be fired after the Berrios fiasco and Shapiro needed to be fired before this off-season started. This would have given the new management the ability to negotiate with Vlad/Bo with a fresh outlook from both sides and also the ability to sell free agents long term to our team.

The good thing is that I didn't think this team needed a front end starter to begin the off-season. We definitely need 1 guy to slot in the rotation but I'm okay with getting the best "buy low" signing with hopes of him outperforming the deal. Now where I have 0 leeway is the Vlad/Bo contract situations (trade or re-sign), needing 2 big bats to in our top 4 in addition to Bo/Vlad and also a top notch closer. Either contend by filling those holes or rebuild!!

LOL look at the name we started the off-season talking about to where we are now, it says everything. Shatkins, trade Vlad/Bo to start the rebuild because you ****ed up this window of contention and hopefully be barred from any baseball operations for the rest of your lives. Go become an architect or something lol.

Pretty sure our entire 2015 team hated his guts too but time went by so it's probably nothing now lol

By that logic, every team should think they have a chance. Tigers actually sold at the deadline and somehow did what they did. If we sell on Vlad/Bo and go for a rebuild and that's happens then awesome, we just shouldn't be making decisions on pulling off a miracle.

Especially when it means rolling this dumpster fire of a squad out there.