mikepelfrey

Nope wrong again. Jimcanuck,He signed those 16 32 And older players the winter AA left, fresh off a 93 win season. The same year he complained that AA emptied the farm and left him an old team. That's what you do, right? Complain you have an old team and then immediately sign 16 players 32 and older. As if the cure to old age is to add even more.

I disagree. I think what we are seeing now is 100% on Shapiro. He used AA as a scapegoat. He decided to let Price walk. He decided to bring in 16 30 years or older veterans to win after AA left. Let us not forget Vlad Guerrero was signed by AA not Shapiro. Shapiro saw that he could ride the coat tails of what AA built and then use AA as a scapegoat to blame him for however long it took to win again. How is saying he inherited an old team helped by signing 16 players aged 32 and older or just letting price walk out the door? Or giving Morales and Bautista Pearce, Grilli,Saltalamachia, Hawkins, etc etc contracts. This is Shapiros 4th year and all he has added is Jansen,Bichette, Grichuk and Pearson, and because of his obvious flaws I don't really see Grichuk as a positive. Not when he's hitting .230 with a .290 Obp. congratulations you're another fan who bought Shapiro's scam company line. Since Shapiro has been here the payroll has risen by $46M more than enough to pay for Price and all he's gotten for Price, Martin, Donaldson, Estrada, Tulo and Osuna is Giles and Merryweather. 100% on Shapiro. He could have traded the AA guys when he walked in the door and gotten a ton of prospects, if that's what he believed. He didnt, he CHOSE to do as he did and got nothing of consequence. What you're seeing is 100% on the choices Shapiro made. And there was nothing wrong with the dickey trade. How many reigning Cy Youngs making $5M have you seen traded. Are you honestly telling us that you wouldn't trade Aaron Sanchez for Max Scherzer right now if you could?

Honestly just because a guy is new HERE doesn't mean they have nothing to add. I've posted on several forums including on PSD blue jays forum for 5 years. I have no problem admitting I'm banned there for 30 days for not posting the "company line". I'm gonna post what I believe to be objectively true regardless of whether its popular opinion or not. Feel free to disagree. But I'm of the opinion that if everyone only said what others "want to hear" nobody would ever learn anything. Just like metafour above he took offense to what I said and came at me, I don't mind, in fact I respect it. I just give it right back and say what I know to be true. If people want to believe that Shapiro and Atkins can do no wrong that's their business. But I know that no GM is perfect, just like I'm not

Absolutely, AA wasn't perfect. But the the one thing you knew about him was that he knew his team inside and out and wasn't afraid. He made moves and if he saw that one particular aspect wasn't what was expected he didn't just stubbornly insist that he was right and do nothing. We saw that with Jose Reyes. After that big trade, which on the surface was fine. Buehrle was a workhorse and the others looked promising. (I mean who could see that Josh Johnson and Reyes would suddenly go from all stars to the outhouse overnight) he didn't just do nothing, he went and got Tulowitzki and by rights should have gone all the way. Some fans have got this mistaken idea that Rogers interference is the cause of our woes. And to that I say Hogwash. If a GM doesn't have the stones to stand up and push back against ownership and do what he thinks is right, than he isn't worth having, and at least AA did that. Shapiro strikes me as a guy who is content to collect high draft choices and tank for however many years it takes to build a winner. But to me what's the point. A village idiot could do that. And unless you have an eye for talent there's no guarantee you'll select the right guys in the draft.

For accuracy sake Ray was wrong. Solak and Widener were traded for Drury. No one expected Gleyber Torres and Andujar to both be ready to start last season. When they were. It made Drury expendable. Cashman merely like any wise GM, gave himself options in case the two rookies needed more seasoning. So as a point of fact. Solak and Widener were not traded for Happ. They were traded for Drury who was there in case Torres or Andujar weren't ready I tend to agree with your reasoning. I was more upset that they got nothing for Estrada who was a great pressure pitcher and waited too long on Smoak. There's a saying fortune favors the bold and Shapiro and Atkins strike me as too timid

NO BUT YOU DEFINITELY ARE. Read Nightingales quote. The offer was last winter before this past season. Coming into his final year before free agency. After winning 76 games and knowing if you don't resign him he walks anyway. So no YOU WORLD CLASS IDIOT it was not a year before but merely months before the season ANY GM worth anything knew it was a risk to hold him. So you either Sign Donaldson long term or trade him before the season. THEY CHOSE not to and got burned. It's the same for any pending free agent going into his walk year and only a fool would think the Jays coming off a 76-86 year were going to contend when they turned that deal down. Shapiro and Atkins just did a poor job of evaluation and deluded themselves into thinking they were better than they were and you metafour were dumb enough to buy it. The Cardinals targeted Donaldson, when the Jays turned them down they tried for Stanton and when he wouldn't go there they traded for Ozuna. So the only retard is you because you obviously don't know how to read a calendar You did say and I quote your own words: "A full year+ earlier"

No it says he wasn't aware that Atkins turned that deal down. And settled for Merryweather which is exactly what I posted It makes him sound uninformed which he is. Nightingale specifically said the Jays turned down a "package" fronted by Flaherty. Nightingale later confirmed to Chris Russo on "High Heat" it was 2 of Flaherty, Bader, or Kelly. What in Atkins history says he's qualified to make those Decisions? Is it Happ for McKinney and Drury? I'm just pointing out what should be obvious by now Archer returned Glasnow and Meadows. Chapman returned Gleyber Torres Happ returned McKinney and Drury Donaldson returned Merryweather Two years ago the yankees got major league win leader Domingo German for David Phelps Last year they got Luke Voit for Gio Gallegos and Chasen Shreve. I'm just pointing out other teams can find diamonds in the rough. We are the biggest market in baseball why can't we? Why do we always make excuses for our mediocre front office. Shanahan and Dubas are held accountable, why not Atkins and Shapiro?

Honest question: Care to give any examples as to whom? Considering the return for Happ was McKinney and Drury....that doesn't seem to fit the bill as elite bats. Just a few examples of who you think we can get. I just ask because Happ is the closest example of this in atkins history to demonstrate his skill or lack thereof Archer returned Glasnow and Meadows...Isn't Stroman at least in his level. And I have zero confidence Atkins can match that return

Just because Atkins was in player development in Cleveland doesn't mean he's a good judge of talent As preferring Julian Merryweather over Flaherty++ proves to anyone with a brain which by now metafour you've shown you're sorely lacking in

no but it obviously is for you According to several others including Dave Nightingale, and John Heyman, Atkins turned down Jack Flaherty and Harrison Bader or Carson Kelly for Donaldson. https://tipofthetower.com/2018/09/16/toronto-blue-jays-missed-josh-donaldson-trade-opportunity-tough-pill-swallow/ But youd rather have Julian Merryweather. I'd rather have the 23 year old too of the rotation left handed ace. But then again that just me..... Wake me when Merryweather does anything

http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/14317320/aroldis-chapman-fired-gun-accused-choking-girlfriend-domestic-violence-incident I guess you don't consider choking his girlfriend and then repeatedly firing a gun while she huddled in fear as beating her The fact that 8 guests in attendance confirmed her original story means nothing. She later refused to press charges but that doesn't mean it never happened.... Osuna is still with his now wife too. I take Gleyber Torres over Giles 100 times out of 100 and I take Osuna over Giles. At least Osuna can pitch in the post season.

Like a near 7 ERA isn't enough for you? And yes at 28 the fact that he hasn't had any success above double AA is damning. They kept him on the 40 man rather than put him on waivers or releasing him in hopes of finding a sucker. Which they did in atkins. How many successful major leaguers can you name that gave up 12+ hits per 9 in triple AAA? I'll wait......this wasn't a guy we traded Solarte for...it was Josh Donaldson

sorry. I guess.... I mistakely assumed you wanted the truth trust me its better here than in the prosportsdaily forum, there they want only glowing positive reports.....the few of us who dare tell the truth get ridiculed

Giles history is a guy who pitches great for teams in the second divsion, where the results dont matter, was great for the Phillies and now the Jays but when the games counted for the astros he imploded with a near 12 ERA in 3 playoff series. Boston NY and the Dodgers pounded on him like he was their personal rented Mule.....no wonder the Astros were desparate to get rid of him Osuna since the trade has been lights out for the Astros

funny but I think he was referring to Julian Merryweather a soon to be 28 year old who is coming back from Tommy John Surgery. he is not much of a prospect, twice the indians assigned him to Triple AAA and both times he bombed with a 6.58 era in 16 starts. he gave up 105 hits in 78 innings. he's your typical hard thrower who can make minor leagues look silly but against advanced hitters he gets taken to the woodshed

the yankees traded Chapman who beat up his GF and got gleyber Torres and 3 more prospects including Billy Mckinney. Torres>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Giles and houston was desparate to unload Giles so no its not terrific the Yankees got Torres and 3 others for 3 months of an abuser, atkins traded a 22 year old star closer for a guy the Astros didnt want dont even get me started on Josh Donaldson, turning down Flaherty and Bader over the winter only to trade him for a 27 year old non prospect in merryweather.

correct. this is what pisses me off about SOME delusional toronto fans. the Blue Jays have the biggest Market in all of baseball, by far. in Hockey the fans act like they are the largest market when in fact the market is smaller than in baseball because in hockey there are 6 other franchises in canada. in baseball the very first team to draw 4 million was Toronto, so why do Some Toronto fans always resort to the Poor mouth excuse?

because most kids arent ready emotionally to handle that type of pressure. Like anyone else they want to succeed and May hurt themselves trying to do too much. Borucki is a good example of this.... Id rather be cautious with a kid and let him develop at his own pace rather than put him in a position where his own natural enthusiasm, could damage him remember were dealing with human beings here, not Machines......one would hope that the people making these decisions, are smart enough to protect them from themselves. because at that age they feel they can do anything. it reminds me of Tim Leary Who posted a 10-2 record in his senior year at Santa Monica High School , and was named to the 1976 All- CIF first-team. He went 19-1 to lead his American Legion Baseball team to the national championship. He was considered the Roger Clemens of his day and he received the opportunity to play college baseball at UCLA. He attended the University of California, Los Angeles , where he was a three-year letterwinner in baseball on top of completing an economics degree. Over his college career, Leary compiled a 21-15 record with a 3.09 earned run average . His sixteen complete games is a school record, and his 258 strikeouts are the school's fourth highest total. In 1978 , he helped lead the USA Amateur Team to the silver medal in the World Cup played in Italy. He was also a member of the 1979 Pan Am Team . Leary was selected by the New York Mets as the second overall pick of the 1979 Major League Baseball draft . He went 15-8 with a 2.76 ERA and 138 strikeouts for the Jackson Mets in his first professional season, prompting the Mets to make the controversial decision to bring him all the way to the majors for his second season. Making his major league debut on April 12, 1981 , Leary faced just seven batters, on a cold april day. before leaving the game after just two innings with a strained elbow. He was never the same after that, and said on MLB-TV, that teams are much mare cautious today

youre right about Stroman. but not many pitchers are capable of doing that, Honestly I think the Chip on His Shoulder, helps Stroman and has since he played in high school in the Neighborhood on Long Island. Im just saying that typical pitchers dont follow that path. If a Guy like Syndergaard a veritable moose of a man needed 464 or a talented Kid like Sanchez needed 385, and Even Randy Johnson got 400 innings in the minors before he made the Big Leagues for good, and Roy Halladay got 493 innings. Im just saying that despite the outliers, which happen on occasion, MOST pitchers need a certain amount of innings to hone their skills and I dont think rushing a guy with Pearsons talents is a wise idea. obvously the front office agrees, or they wouldnt be limiting him in the first place..... after all they dont do it with everyone else

youre still making some big assumptions there. in 9 stars this year he's pitched 32 innings. All im saying is that he has to build up innings before they can expect him to to be big league ready this was a college reliever who was tried as a starter in his final year in college out of necessity, this is not a guy who has a history of going many innings. they are not going to fast track a guy with that profile to the big leagues as a starter. as a reliever sure, they did it with Osuna...... but with a guy they see as a future top of the rotation starter they are going to build his innings up first

hes been in the minors for 3 years ALREADY. And pitched A TOTAL of 53.2 innings you want to rush and risk ruining him? thats on you for comparison Aaron Sanchez had 385 innngs before making the bigs for good Syndergaard had 464 innngs before making the bigs for good

the guy was a reliever in college or much of it anyway. the common wisdom is you need at least 400 innings to be legitimately ready for starting at the big league level. pearson has a total of 53 innings in 3 years this year hes averaged less than 4 innings per start so youre either a) clueless or extremely over confident LOL

they gave a guy who cant spell "plate discipline $52M..... what do you expect ? his 4 to 1 k rate and below average defense in center obviously won shatkins over

the thing is building a pitching staff is the hardest part and they really havent even begun to do that unless you count thornton pannone and Merriweather as a start Pearson is at least 3 years away maybe more if he cant build up innings