5ToolPhenom

Exactly. I mean, I'm sure they have analytics guys who ball-gamed certain scenarios for if Berrios wasn't looking sharp and what not, but there's no way there was a concrete plan to pull him after 3 innings if he was dealing. One would think that Schneider would've learned after the Gausman debacle last postseason, but the guy's just stubborn. I honestly can't believe the Jays are bringing him back in 2024. I'll always have an interest in the Jays, but the last few years have been a bitter pill to take. I'm tired of seeing these guys like Montoyo and Schneider who have never managed a MLB club before getting put in charge of a team that's supposed to win NOW. Compare the Jays to a team like the Rangers or Astros and it's like night and day. A team needs a manager who's won before. Plain and simple.

Wrong. This was not a decision that was premeditated. Ross Atkins clarified a few days ago. This was 100% on John Schneider. https://www.coastreporter.net/national-sports/jays-gm-atkins-says-manager-schneider-made-decision-to-pull-berrios-from-game-2-7655714

I tried to tell you guys that this narrative was nonsense. Front offices don't dictate pitching changes to a manager. https://www.coastreporter.net/national-sports/jays-gm-atkins-says-manager-schneider-made-decision-to-pull-berrios-from-game-2-7655714

You're wrong Spank. Schneider said himself that they had a "few different plans" in place. Which is what I would have expected. There's no chance they'd have a black and white plan to pull a stud like Jose Berrios after 3 innings if he was dealing. I refuse to believe it. Here's Schneider admitting it for himself... You guys are wrong on this one.

Well said. It's a human game. These guys aren't robots. When you have a great pitcher like Berrios on the mound and he clearly has his good stuff, you have to roll with it. You never know if who you're going to replace him with is going to have his best stuff or not and Kikuchi clearly didn't.

Precisely! I can understand ball-gaming different scenarios and going into the game with a plan, but that was pure idiocy. Not to mention that Kikuchi is known for his meltdowns and sporadically losing control. He's not the guy I would want to go to in an unprecedented situation like that.

This is hearsay, show me a source. So you're telling me the front office said "if Berrios is dealing and throwing the game of his life, you have to pull him after 3 innings"? Get real.

I'm sorry, I'm just not buying it. Am I to really believe that a big league manager has no autonomy at all? You're telling me that it's decided PRE-GAME by the front office to pull a stud pitcher after 3 innings (when there's no injury related concerns)? I'm sorry that's just horse sh*t and you know it.

And it's Berrios starting against his old team. You could tell how important that was to him. I can understand having a game plan if he doesn't have his best stuff, but to have the hook after a measly 3 INNINGS when he's dealing? I mean they can't even use the 3rd time through the order excuse. I just don't understand how there's any logic behind what happened there.

I'm sure they went over situations for if Berrios looked shaky or if he was struggling, to then have a quick hook but I don't think there's any chance that they would have instructed him to pull him if he was dealing after 3 innings with only 45 pitches thrown. Imagine watching the 2000 Yankees in the playoffs and seeing Andy Petitte get pulled after 3 innings when he's dealing. It's beyond comprehension.

Damn dude, bold call, but you nailed it.

I was literally yelling at the TV: "WHAT THE F*CK ARE YOU DOING!?!? GO SIT DOWN!!! YOU IDIOT!!!" In all my years of watching baseball, I've never seen such an idiot managerial decision. Never. This team's just a joke.

Out of my 35 years of watching baseball, that was the WORST managerial decision I've EVER seen. Honestly, if I was Pete Walker or Donnie Baseball, I would have grabbed Schneider by the scruff of his neck if he announced he was going to go out there to pull him. Berrios was absolutely dealing, nearly unhittable and to pull him after 3 INNINGS!?! Inexcusable. Something as egregious as that almost suggests that Schneider was trying to throw the game. I've never seen such an idiotic managerial display in my life. If the Jays don't fire Schneider, I don't think I'm going to bother rooting for the Jays next year. It was bad enough to see him throw away the late 5 run lead against the Mariners last playoffs due to his terrible roster management, but here's there's just no excuse. A team like the Blue Jays who's built to win NOW should have a manager with experience. Not some bum who's only ever coached in the minor leagues. Sorry for the rant, I've just never been more dumbfounded when watching a game. I was literally yelling at the TV: "WHAT THE F*CK ARE YOU DOING!?!? YOU IDIOT!!!" And of course the decision paid off just about as well as I knew it would. Unreal.

Never bet on a team when they have nothing working for them. Always a bad play to try and predict when they might snap out of it.

Small sample size. They're not the guys we should be leaning on with the season on the line. But because of the horrible roster configuration, they're what we're stuck with.

I'm surprised this fact isn't talked about more by the Toronto media and Blue Jays fans in general. One of those blunders you would think people would still be talking about 20-30 years down the road

What, you mean you don't like seeing Horrowitz, Ernie Clement and Espinal starting games in the heat of a playoff race?!?!

Kirk was my favorite player going into this year, but yikes, the regression has been real.

Honestly, if we miss the playoffs, I'd have to imagine Shapiro gets the axe. The guy's been a massive bust.

lmao you gotta be kidding me. This guy's a complete dunce.

Was there any doubt that he would roll over on one there? The guy's a ground ball machine.

Schneider never seems to press any of the right buttons when it comes to in-game tactical decisions. The wildcard game last year still leaves a sour taste in my mouth. I really think a team like this should be managed by a guy with more big-league experience.

I wanted to keep Kirk, but I assumed we would've gotten a haul for Moreno. Getting only Varsho for Moreno AND Gurriel should be cause for dismissal. Even the Dodgers broadcasting staff were talking about what a fleecing it was.

Well for the O's to come in against their division rivals, facing their best pitcher and winning in 7-0 fashion. That's gotta be the definition of a statement game.

Well if he's so terrible then what does that say about the Jays? An easier inning pitched, I don't think I've ever seen.