Carlos Danger

We were all talking about Martin and Morales.. I was not discussing Tulo. They didn't call AA the Ninja for nothing. Hence I gave more than one example. The Indians were a sustainable team until Shatkins left and it was after they left they made the moves that put them in the WS.. We cant't say if those key moves would have been made under Shatkins.. Not arguing they had a good base, but it wasn't Shatkins that made the key moves that finally got them to the WS.

I was not making a comparison as to GMs.. I was stating specifically, that if you have two overpaid guys you want to somehow get rid of, and someone says there is no way.. I would rather have AA for that.. That simple.. Then I gave examples of AA being creative or persistent.. It has been a while since Wells, so I Goggled it to refresh my memory.. It wasn't just the Angels GM wanted Wells and AA did nothing.. Look at the return and money transfer AA got.. It was not just I will take him, pay all his salary, and give you Napoli...etc.. (That was bad move by AA) But, we ended up keeping EE, so it took the sting out a bit.. Also, while I like the direction we are going on the Jays. A lot of our future is from AA. AND, it is still all hope, we haven't done s*** yet.. We could very well be the Detroit Tigers.. Look at the roster the Tigers had.. I think of the Tigers because Vlad is always compared to Cabrera.... So, I hope, I like what I see, I am optimistic.. but the ultimate evaluation will be results and then we can judge Shatkins vs AA.

Done.... Some closers can't pitch worth a s*** in non-save situations...

No, I thought I clearly stated that in this specific situation or outside the box situations.. If Atkins was GM in 2014/2015 do we get Donaldson in trade.. I say hell no. Does Atkins get LAA to take Wells contract.. Highly doubt it. Does Atkins sign Vlad, or Martin in the first place.. to Vlad I highly doubt it and to Martin I doubt it. AA had some strong points and tenacity.. He is/was very creative.. They basically changed the rules after AA landed a draft pick out of that crap catcher from Colorado that he then dumped.. Can't recall his name... Atkins has made some good draft picks and decent trades. However, I have so far seen nothing outside the box or even creative from Shakins... Even the way they talk is boring as f*** corporate BS and if we made the word Process into a drinking game I would be drunk and Spanky would just stay passed out.. So, having said that. I would be very surprised to see them get rid of both contracts.. Plenty willing to give credit if they surprise me.. PS: One more thing ref Shatkins... I doubt Shapiro approves the prospect capitol to get Miller down the stretch in 2016 if he was still there.. Miller was KEY to them getting back to the WS.

I am in the get rid of both of them camp... I don't want either... I was thinking that if we still had AA, he has the tenacity to get rid of both contracts a la Vernon Wells and how he finally landed Donaldson.. I do not think Shatkins have the outside the box mentality to get it done... Not saying they are not good at making trades or finding value.. Just that they seem to take conventional routes. I don't see them being creative and being able get Napoli type like AA was able to rob the Angels or even get someone to pick-up his contract, which alone should have got him Exec of the Year.

Is this the "supposed" short list, or just some names that they think are among the final list.. In other words, is Schneider still in the running? Thanks

Wait.. Luke Maile is on the same list that includes Matt Chapman and Sheryl Ring in the MILB thread.. I am so confused???? Is he good and can be mentioned with the likes of Chapman, or does he suck?? 🤔

I am glad we agree. I thought you might be triggered.. I love a happy ending.

I agree 110% with that whole list except Matt Chapman! OVERRATED!

He has played 3b, 2b, 1b and is now playing OF in the AFL... I think the Jays are trying to make him a super utility, but he is much more then a Ryan Goins type IMO, more like a Marco Scutaro, starter type super utility, so who is the best starting super utility guy... Well, not sure about this past season, but prior Zobrist was always at the top or near to.

Biggio AA Age Dif G PA AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO BA OBP SLG OPS TB GDP HBP SH SF IBB 23 -1.2 132 563 449 80 113 23 5 26 99 20 8 100 148 .252 .388 .499 .887 224 2 5 1 8 4 Zobrist AA 25 0.8 83 381 315 57 103 25 6 3 30 9 5 55 46 .327 .434 .473 .907 149 7 5 5 1 1 Maybe one of you guys can better correlate this.. But if I am reading it right it appears Zobrist never had a full season of only AA ball. He did AA/AAA same year. However, he was 25 yrs old when he started AA and went to AAA. Biggio is two years younger. I didn't add Zobrist's AAA numbers because I don't think it would be fair.. There are a lot of stats that Biggio is not too far off from Zobrist for AA ball and considering he is 2 yrs younger.. Food for thought... EDIT TO ADDL The categories are all lined up when I edit and then it changes when I post... WTF!

Ok, fair enough. I think he can be a similar type player. However, I am an optimist on some things. Who is your comparison for Biggio’s ceiling, just out of curiosity? Thanks

Is Cavan Biggio going to be the next young Ben Zobrist? Excelling at various positions, dangerous at the plate and a winner, key cog in playoff teams?

$ 4 million is a reliever on a 1 yr deal that we can try and leverage at the dead line, like this year..

Are they going to come out with the sequel to Strange Brew.. Strange Herb? The Fast Food places better put on some extra staff and stock up for the evening of the 17th..

Fine: Bill "Mother Fnn James" , 2017 - https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fancy-stats/wp/2017/11/20/bill-james-who-spurred-baseballs-analytics-revolution-is-waging-a-mini-war-on-war/?utm_term=.d1886751dd28 If I lived in Canada like you I would be smoking the reefer about now..

Wired then.. https://www.wired.com/2011/06/the-sabermetric-bias/ Plus, who cares if I am giving the board material to debate, sling insults.. I have thick skin. It is obvious we both have nothing else to do on a Saturday night..

I will be the first to admit I am no Bill James.. I need to look things up and find references. However, I have been doing that for a while now and I have learnt that there is not an advance metric you should put all your chips in as the be all end all. There are differences among the main stat pages. There are stats that were used a few years ago that have been replaced by new and better metrics. These metrics will be replaced one day also when flaws are identified. Good fun article.. https://bleacherreport.com/articles/429384-sabermetrics-the-one-stat-they-dont-know-that-matters-the-most

I said he had a good OPS one year, but still sucked. I was responding to the previous post that asked me about BA and in comparison to other stats. I was not talking about '13.. 13" was the year he had the 3.6 oWAR. 2014- (0.6 fWAR, 0.9 rWAR over 376 plate appearances) he had a good WRC+ same year which tells you something about that stat as it does ISO. REF ISO: You need to be careful because not all .200 ISO are created equally. A .250 average and .450 slugging and a .350 average and .550 slugging both return ISOs of .200 because both batters have the same rate of extra base hits per at bat, even though the latter hitter is clearly the better player overall. Rasmus also had a K rate of like 32% mas o menos which is like top 5 horrible and every K is bad out. The point of my original post is you need to look at totality.. On the same token that you cant just use BA (Which I agree 100%) there is not just one other metric that eliminates the need for all others.. If there was, there would be one offense metric in Fangraphs etc and that was all you would need, there isn't.

We are talking offense. He never had oWar higher then 3.6 with the Jays and that was his best year. He had one year with a 1.2 oWAR and another with 1.7. while he was with the Jays. One year he had 735 OPS but a .287 OBP and .225 BA. He hit some doubles and HRs which drove his OPS numbers up, but generally he sucked. He also had a very high K rate but not even as bad as some other years. A lot of bad outs.

1. I nor anyone else here has stated you should judge a hitter by soley batting avg. 2. If you have a .368 avg hitter going for the batting title, he is probably a hell of a lot better hitter then a .176 hitter measuring all metrics unless the dude has insane OBP. 3. OPS is a very weighted stat that made guys like Colby Rasmus look good one year in Toronto when he was not.

Where is anyone talking about batting avg? This seems to be your go to catch phrase. On the site and podcasts. I have seen no one on this site, nor on this thread measuring a hitter by soley batting avg or pitchers by wins for that matter. Having said that, as it refers to batting avg, it should not be entirely discounted just because there are other more advanced metrics. Everything needs to be taken in totality..

Agree before hand what metrics you want to use. OBP, OPS, SLG, wOBp, WRC+, avg, EBH, style points for bat flips. I dont care as long as it is fair. If one guy has higher in 3 out of 4 categories for example, that guy wins..

So you are saying you will take the bet? 😜

You guys are all a bunch of betting fiends on here. Let’s make a bet, if given same # of ABs, I bet Reese outhits Martin next year. Take highest avg of all relevant stats. Problem is, probably will not to be able to do that comparison on the Blue Jays..