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Anthopoulos traded 11 minor league players at the 2015 trade deadline, literally purging the system of most of it's better pitching prospects on the way out the door. He nearly completely emptied the cupboard for the group taking over the front office. The Blue Jays under Shapiro have not done anything remotely similar to this type of shopping spree in their time running the ship. This latest trade deadline saw the team move 4 prospects out in trade to bolster the roster. For the most part the correct prospects have been shipped out in trade, with the bulk of these traded players being on the verge of losing their value due to lack of performance or being fringe 40 man roster candidates in a system in need of consolidation due to upcoming offseason roster additions.

The Blue Jays went from being good in 2016, were bad and quietly rebuilding behind the scenes without tanking from 2017-2019, and started paying top free agents after the 2019 off season. They turned the organization around in the span of essentially 3 years. There has been a window of success that's lasted 4 years, with at least 2 more likely years of relative success to come. I think the drafting has been decent for the most part as the team has graduated a lot of prospects over the years and used a lot in trade as well, but the biggest thing that's been lacking is impact players acquired through the draft. You are missing and/or ignoring the fact that the Orioles tanked REALLY hard from 2018-2021, losing well over 100 games in 3 out of 4 seasons. As such were able to draft near the top of the draft for a sustained period of time where the picks are far less to bust. On top of that they also had the benefit of receiving competitive balance picks giving them more picks and more importantly a higher overall pool of money. That doesn't take away from the fact that they've made a lot of great picks during this time, but it definitely helps when you can select close to sure thing stars in the top few spots of the draft. By the time 2026-2028 rolls around we shall see if the player development complex is fully paying dividends and if the more recent drafts churn out more successful MLB reinforcements. I like the chances of more of the draftees reaching their full potential in the future given the inherent advantage of having a top tier development complex.

It's hard to deny there was a definite downturn in draft results after the rather successful 2016 draft, particularly with regards to high profile misses in the first round. I don't know it's is due to a change in drafting philosophy or personnel changes but I am a huge fan of the last 3 drafts in particular. 2021 added Hoglund who was a key piece in the Chapman acquisition as well as potential rotation pieces in Tiedemann and Dallas. 2022 saw the addition of pieces like Barriera and Roden who is moving really quickly up the system, and 2023 saw Nimmala added as a really high ceiling prospect.

The player development complex only fully opened up for use a few years ago. It appears that it is starting to bear fruit given the recent wave of players working their way through the system.

I recall the scouting director at the time was an AA hire that was replaced after the 2016 draft or thereabouts. If Atkins doesn't get credit for drafting Bo then by that same logic he should take none of the blame for the terrible Zeuch selection either. If Atkins wanted somebody other than Bo that badly then he simply would have selected the other player. This is nothing more than a pile of nonsense spouted by Atkins detractors to assign credit for a great draft pick to somebody else instead of Atkins.

The 2016 draft featured Atkins at the helm so I fail to see how he shouldn't get any credit for ultimately selecting Bo. The AA regime should get very close to none of the credit for developing anybody on the current roster as he was long gone by the time most of these guys even made it past rookie ball.

That's not entirely fair given how many home grown players populate the roster along with having several players on the cusp of graduating the system. There have been a lot of high profile first round busts but this has at least been mitigated to a degree as some of these guys have been shipped out to supplement the MLB roster.

Weren't you the guy who was constantly grousing about how the Blue Jays should have signed Gibson instead of Bassitt for much of the second half of the season? Now you are saying he's be fine as a number 5 starter on a pitching starved team like the Cardinals when he was supposed to be better than the Blue Jays number 3 starter in one of baseball's best rotations. Great consistency dude, keep it up.

They can always circle back to Chapman later on if/when his demands come down to earth.

I would hope the team has a better read than we do on whether Manoah's 2023 issues are something that's fixable or if he's ultimately cooked. The recent interview with Gausman strongly suggests that Alek had some sort of shoulder issue in the spring that wasn't fully resolved before the regular season started, and I also recall there was some sort of issue that was behind how heavy Alek got in the offseason. Then there were the PRP injections in his throwing arm which Alek received at his own discretion. It would be nice if we heard a peep from Manoah and/or his agent to hear his side of the story at some point as all we've gotten throughout are various whispers about the messy situation.

I'd really like to see the club give Manoah a shot to rebuild some value if the intention is to eventually trade him. I get the feeling he's going to be ultra motivated this offseason to improve and would hate to see a massively negative value trade made mostly out of spite.

Maybe you aren't aware of this but there is more than 1 time zone in this world, so maybe I'm not posting at 2AM. Besides that, I'm not sure why this is of such concern to you if I'm up late on a weekend. Even my mother wouldn't be so concerned about that so I guess I should be thankful for your concern. I guess I just noticed that you kept railing on for signing primarily s***** hitters to boost the offense lately that I may have gotten confused about what you wanted the team to do. Seriously, the last 3 signings I recall you advocating for were for the likes of the 3 I listed, including a passionate defense about signing Josh Donaldson. I don't know if Atkins can afford to take many if any gambles on unlikely bounceback candidates this offseason given the pressing need to add offense to the lineup. He's done a good job signing short term free agents of this nature but all of the guys he signed had typically experienced only one rough season, including the likes of Semien, Belt and Kiermaier.

I don't know if a baseball related forum is the right place to discuss the weird fantasies that you keep posting on here.

So let's see if I have this right. For a team that was really offensively challenged in 2023 some of your preferred free agent targets include the likes of Josh Donaldson, Joey Votto and Austin Meadows.

If he wasn't the best reliever then why you did you say he was "like" the team's best reliever? I have no qualms with saying Cimber was among the best relievers on the team in those two seasons, but Romano was a guy who was arguably ong MLB's best relievers vs a dude who was second best in a weak bullpen.

Did Jordan Romano not exist or something?

The thing about that piece that made very little sense was the blurb about the AL East weather being a disadvantage even though the Blue Jays play all of their home games inside of a dome. The schedule is far more balanced than it was previously which greatly reduces divisional play, and Ray also play their games inside a domed stadium as well. This only leaves 39 outdoor divisional games in a 162 games schedule.

It's just a short quip without anything we haven't already heard elsewhere.

Going with a combination of players such as you suggest would make a good backup plan, but adding Ohtani should definitely be the primary goal as this allows the team to add an elite bat+top of the rotation pitcher vs only adding a very good bat+potential top of the rotation pitcher.

Yeah I hear you for sure. I think it would have been really debatable to make that trade if it only meant two years of control for Ramirez, so we would still likely be arguing about how bad the trade was anyway if Moreno and/or Martinez ended up being stud players once reaching the majors. At any rate hopefully Varsho bounces back in 2024 and subsequent years so the acrimony can die down a little bit.

I recall how reports had the Guardians asking for both Moreno and Martinez as a starting point in trade negotiations. In hindsight that may have very well been a worthwhile trade to make, but there would have been no guarantee Ramirez would have been interested in signing with the Jays long term.

Because there are as many as 4 position player spots that need to be filled and the team doesn't have this many pitchers with actual trade value to bring back major league starting pieces. Second base can likely be filled internally with some combination of Espinal, (assuming he isn't non-tendered), Biggio and Schneider, and maybe in a pinch Horwitz could fill the DH/backup 1B opening, but third base and left field both likely need to be filled with external players.

Yeah that's the sad reality ultimately. I wonder how much more it would have taken to re-sign Semien when he walked in free agency compared to the already somewhat inflated contract that the Rangers offered. Those f***ers really stole our lunch that offseason as both Semien and Seager were preferred targets that we were simply outbid for.

The aspect that surprised me about this trade was that it removed two guys that may have been viable depth starter options as soon as next season. The organization has had a bit of difficulty in developing depth starter options and this particular issue really bit them in the ass in 2022, and if not for amazing rotation health in 2023 it would have been a big concern again.

The Blue Jays were reportedly serious bidders for the services of players like Corey Seager and Gerrit Cole but they've never actually handed out the type of money it would require to sign someone like this. This is the one player in MLB I'd even begin to consider handing out the $400-500 million or more that it would take.