shortstop

who are the minor leaguers paid by? the local minor league owner or by the major league team? if the former, don't see why a) there's a fixed amount the minor league owner must pay ie. the $1100 per month to give the owner a chance to be profitable and the major league baseball "pool" of money can't supplement that income with an additional $1400-$2500 per month or whatever...and at every level higher, MLB "pool" money is higher... so 30 teams, about 6 Minor league teams = 180 X 25 players = 4500 X $1400-$2500 per month or $16,800-$30,000 per year = $75,600,000-$135,000,000 per year... or about $2.52M-$4.5M for each team... in any case, there may be a lot more minor league players out there - but per team, we're not talking about a crazy amount - and the amount into the MLB "Pool" could be pro-rated ie. Yankees pay more into the pool vs. small market teams... anyone know the attrition rate of minor leagues that call it quits every year? And what % are cut by a team & never to be picked up by another minor league team? And how does this correlate with the # of new players coming in every year? Does the low $$'s force enough out of the game to make room for the newcomers? My sense is the argument that minor league players should be getting paid more isn't a cut & dry argument like Hayhurst sets out...or maybe it is...

glides like Devon White out there...the kid imo believes he can get every ball hit out there...and his arm, my goodness - adventurous at times but what an arm...the other thing is, imo, the guys next to him - Melky & JB, love him out there with them...

Spanky, I presume you're referring to Loup? Yeah, he belongs in that group of course

agreed, tied to but not the sole factor...

I think in reality he has 2-3 more outings & if they're crap, the line has been crossed in the minds of the jays brass... That breaking point line is different for every pitcher - some get no leeway while others get a lot of rope

ECJF, he's been a stud in that bullpen & a performer for the jays previous seasons - right or wrong, that is imo a factor in AA's/Gibby's decision (ie. loyalty) making along with how would a demotion to fine tune impact Delabar...and that's without considering whether there's better options at this time in the minors... with that said, there is breaking point...I just don't think the Jays brass is there yet and hope we don't get to it...

I agree with Sammy that the jays will likely adopt the approach of bringing him in earlier in games/less important situations whereas McGowan will pitch in the tough situations we expected Delabar to pitch in...imo, he's not struggling enough to send down to the minors & the hope is he'll get it right soon as he's a crucial part of this pen as the games get more & more important...

ha, good point...this version of Happ where he may get in 25 starts and win 10 games is nice from a #5...he's been better overall the past few starts, hope he can keep it going though Happ vs that tigers lineup & matched up against Verlander = possible long day at the ballpark

I shiver at the thought of Dickey in a important regular season/playoff game...who knows how that knuckler's floating that day and whether he can get pitches in the zone...

I expect Rasmus, Santos, maybe Happ, Morrow gone next season - that's what - $28M-$30M freed up in payroll of course there's contracts that increase in salary next year + re-signing guys to higher $ than what they're making now...

did I read something where JB said Seitzer has preached every at bat is different depending on the game situation which makes sense of course...last night, it was great to see the jays approach in the 9th - they weren't trying to kill the ball - just trying to get on base or hit a sacrifice...even Lawrie was just trying to make good clean contact & he ended up with a HR imo...

felt like a playoff game watching on tv...watching Hutch was great but it was a reminder that we need 1 more piece in the starting rotation for these types of games...whether 0-0 or a low run ball game in meaningful regular season/playoff games...no offence to Happ, but I expect him to get demolished on Thursday which sucks cuz I'll be heading to the game & was praying Stro show would get the start...

last year, delabar could throw the ball where he wanted it...this year, unable to locate consistently...hopefully he rounds into form soon...cuz with CJ, Cecil, McGowan & a clutch Delabar, Jays should be able to close out many close games against the best teams...

when he's on, Santos has shown to be lights out... when he's off, which was often, he gave off the Rogers vibe - the, 'oh crap, he's coming into the game, there goes the lead/game' vibe... for a few million, he's worth keeping around with the hopes he comes around...$6m next season - i'd be shocked if they pick up the option... as the games get more and more meaningful (hopefully), Santos in the pen likely becomes a risk unless a) he's on a good roll he's not but he's limited to 1 or 2 hitters as a specialist...

my guess is AA would prefer 2 years to align with JB/EE's contracts...but imagine Melk will want atleast 3 if not 4 years... Melk's made over $28M in his career thus far...imo, he'll want the security of as long as a contract as he can get though he'd likely accept lesser term for the right team/right situation... depends on the market at the end of the day...if some top 10 big market team comes knocking & is a great city to live/play ball and they're offering the most years/most money, hard to say no to that... my guess is it will take 3 yrs $36-$40M...

I honestly believe the Rays thought this was their year & short of a ridiculous haul for Price, were intent on keeping him...who would've thought 2-3 of their starting pitchers would go down & likely kill their season...I think with the situation changed, Price imo will be gone by the deadline for a not insignificant sum...he's started & won some big playoff games... WardHenke, i'm of the same mindset - they've sold off enough & don't think giving up the prized remaining arms in the organization is the way to go...but it assumes there isn't a prize behind Stroman & Sanchez less than 2 years away...add in the fact they are controllable for a while...and add in the fact Dickey & Beuhrle can't pitch forever (well, maybe they can!)...

KC's additional leverage is the team that may get Shields will likely get that extra 'boost' to not only get into the playoffs but also compete in the playoffs... of course, depends on supply as well if Price, Shark, etc. get on the market... be interesting - does 1st mover get advantage or does the market get more intense & teams willing to give up more the moment the 1st pitcher gets off the board...

salivating envisioning Shields on this team - rotation of Buehrle, Shields, Dickey, Hutch & Stroman/Happ... Moore under pressure in KC & this year looks like another year of disappointed though last year they were much more competitive...they have the cardinals, yanks & Indians coming up on the schedule - see where they stand 7-10 days from now...

i think that's what'll happen in the 'likely' scenario...if he figures it out, i think he has the pedigree/determination to be a consistent .300 hitter like he was before coming up to the majors...bit more patience, getting better at recognizing breaking balls/hitting them, and still a little late on swings sometimes...

he's got a great arsenal of weapons...effective and consistent use of a change will keep hitters off balance...wish his fb had some movement but perhaps it'll come...I think Stroman has the tools to be very effective...needs to play around with the hitters heads & keep 'em guessing & off-balance

I think that's good for Reyes/team...but we'll see how 'clean' the jays play baseball moving forward - it's the mental errors that are the worst b/c they are correctable - and last night's throw was a mental error, but one I don't see happening again from Reyes this season in a crucial situation - baserunning/getting picked off are mostly mental errors...hitting the cut off man...advancing (or not advancing) on a pop fly...etc etc...playoff teams and those that make deep runs 'do the little things'... so far, this team often does the 'little things' but still too many mental errors... one aspect of this thread that's really great is the bar is higher & as fans, albeit more hardcore than the typical fan, we're not satisfied with 9 games above .500 or whatever...we expect more & so we should...and this team should expect more and assume they do...

ECJF, you wrote: "And it's not "only one game". Games like these add up." couldn't agree more. part of the culture shift, that hopefully is happening with the jays, is the leaders of this team address issues on a daily basis & play better baseball as the season progresses...the Pedroia's of winnings teams - leaders on winning teams - would not accept crap mental mistakes & ensure the leak is plugged or addressed when they start noticing a potential leak ahead of it becoming a major problem...

yeah, that Alomar home run off Eck was a changer - that was, imo, the defining moment when the jays said we're not intimidated & we are the team to beat that carried the rest of the 2012 playoffs & 2013 season...you could see it on the face of Eck - A's went from arrogance to humbled in 1 pitch

jays have been giving away outs all-season - pick-offs, trying to get an extra base & getting thrown out... watched the replay again - definitely blame JR but EE makes that catch in the dirt 99 times out 100...just a weird combination of things let's hope good Happ comes out tonight...

when JPA played his last game for the jays/learned he wasn't gonna be resigned... but seriously, Carter home run in WS...and jays come back win after trailing 10-0 in boston on June 4, 1989 - what a crazy day of baseball and then I watched Hentgen pitch what was likely his last quality start...June 11, 2004 vs Arizona, sat a few rows behind home plate & he through a 5 hitter, 0 runs over 7 Innings...absolute gem & his curve was wicked that day...one of a few who gave him a standing ovation as the jays icon walked to the dugout after the top of the 7th