Cooler Heads Prevail

Show me ONE real trade of an established all star hitter on a team friendly contract that got traded for a prospect. And calling me "retarded" when I stated the facts on the young guy is ignorant. If anybody looks mentally challenged on here, its you with that goofy grin sitting behind a hamburger. Just calling them as I see them. You're trolling by any definition. its repetitive and tiresome, and to see you try to call me stupid on here is too funny.

Cherry picking the best rookie in the majors in years is kind of like taking the latter half of a sentence someone posts on here and putting it in quotes. You know what, most of what you post suggests you aren't dealing with a full deck. Your clown act isn't getting any better.

Nice idea but I doubt you can corral the usual anti-Jay fans who think this board is their facility to slam the Jays, propose what AA will do then slam him for doing it ( not that he's done it ), and free wheel some absurd "sell the team become the new Cubs" fantasy/nightmare. On your topic, I would hope they move some middle relievers and free up some roster spots. I'd love to see Johnson/Bonofocio/Oliver moved out for anything. My guess is if they do anything bigger it might involve some combination of Delabar/Lind/Davis/Rasmus. Delabar strikes me as the kind of guy having a great year that might attract serious interest at the deadline.

I'm just going to say it, the Happ trade appears to be a good trade they got a starter for about as cheap as they come in this market. What am I missing here, who on earth did they give up that is any good ? And Happ is no more a "long RP" then Bautista is a 1B/DH. The only trade I see the Jays made that in hindsight is BAD was the Dickey trade. They thought it was a last building block to a title. However, if things change next year, even that trade is not a slam dunk loss yet. If they make the playoffs, then only Syndegaard becoming the next Roy Halliday makes it a terrible trade. On the surface your post just seems like a bad joke. Maybe you are just trolling like FireAss and the Hamburger Troller.

Dropping Johnson and Arencebia end of season should be two of the easiest decisions this team has. No use gambling on these guys and spending considerable money doing so. Similar situation, if they get one year deals they could both become overpriced guys that management feels obligated to trot out there no matter how badly they play. Try something new it can't be any worse. Don't let 2014 be a repeat. ps I was an Arencebia fan preseason, based on the limited history and age ( for a catcher ), but obviously he doesn't get it. I've rarely soured on a guy this fast but it is what it is.

Bautista is a great player, reliable 30 HR / 90 RBI guy who plays decent outfield. There simply aren't that many guys like him in baseball. As much as Profar might turn into a star, its a MAYBE. If Bautista gives you 2-3 more years of this performance, even if Profar played really well in 2 years he'll start commanding big money anyways. Rasmus is starting to fulfill his promise. His contract status presents a problem next year. Good example of how "prospects" aren't always as good for a team as it appears. This is why I say when you have a good return on your investment and he's signed to a good contract, you don't dump that guy on a prospect who is batting .230 in limited time in the majors.

+1 Aren't all these trading threads getting strange ? A lot of thoroughly unrealistic ideas that underrate our veterans and overrrate any prospect that's getting rave reviews from someone. I was touting trade Lind earlier this year when they were still in contention, but that ships come and gone. Instead of giving anything including meaningful budget up for risky veteran starters ( eg Peavy, Johnson ), I'm thinking they should focus on the hitting holes and roll the dice on the huge cupboard of potential starters in their system. Only pitcher they really need is a genuine #1 ( low risk ) which would be worth even overpaying for, but if that guy isn't out there, don't settle for less. If they can get one moderately priced starter that is a durable #3-#5 then maybe that's a good insurance policy. Stats are all good and well but in reality Redmond ( who is this guy anyways ? ) has been decent and Johnson has been terrible. Who knows what pitchers will step up next year, Hutch came out of nowhere. I keep thinking Cecil and McGowan could be big surprises next season if they come in trying out for starter. I'd love to see one high impact bat join the team next year, and Johnson long gone.

Ok, time to respond to your trolling again. First of all your post adds NOTHING to the discussion. Second, instead of claiming to know what I think, you should be stating what YOU think. Third, you are claiming I think something that I don't agree with at all. Fourth, I already input on Thames and Cooper which are useful insights on this topic. But you know what, let's cut to the chase. You've been doing this crap for days now. Get lost.

I've been nervous he'll do nothing ever since he said JJ is in the Jays future. The fact they still have excess relievers and Bonofocio is almost a crime at this point. 2014 should be the focus and all these extra guys are clogging up the roster and preventing other guys from being tested. I wonder if Rajai Davis might be moved.

I suspect the Rays would never have traded Longoria to get Myers. That would be a closer analogy to discuss. The Rays without Longoria I believe couldn't compete this year, no matter how good their pitching was. Can the Jays compete without Bautista ? I'm not so sure they can.

The stupid part was using the term "terrible". The rest I can live with, its your opinion. I don't agree on the World Series chances. I've been interested in Profar for months, but the Texas/Toronto situation was never ideal. Sure we need better defence, but I think you are focussed on the wrong guy. I look at guys like Cabrera ( post steroids ), Bonofocio, Arencebia. Hopefully the OF can hit well too. My idea is Cabrera becomes full time DH, and the other two guys are gone. While I can't rule out Cabrera having legit injuries, I suspect these post steroid guys may end up always having nagging injuries. Maybe as a DH he stays healthy and can concentrate on his hitting.

I mentioned Cooper because he actually was a capable major league level hitter that got criticized for lack of power. I liked him. But last I heard he has very serious health issues. I don't follow minor leagues closely at all these days. I do know Sierra looked good at times on the big team. Kind of like Herchevierra, Gomes, Thames, they all showed glimmers of major league potential, but not enough to cement a regular job at the time.

I guess the younger posters don't remember when we were the best team in baseball signing these guys. Even George Bell was pretty much a steal from Philly that had the same roots.

I don't know this Pillar guy. I'd look at how David Cooper did who was promising at times ( minor league batting title, limited power, has some injury issues now ). Moises Sierra didn't look awful last year and started well early this season. Has he really fallen off the map or can this guy audition in September ? I'm not a big fan of Gose or Cabrera so I'm interested in these other guys.

One word : Cubs

It should be interesting to see how EE and Joey Bats do the next 5 years. My guess is EE will hit the wall ( a significant drop off in production ) sooner. Hopefully not for a few years anyways. If they want to do something dramatic, I'd rather they keep these guys and go hard for somebody like Cano. Have a super strong batting line up and just hope enough of the starters rebound to cobble together 5 somewhat reliable guys. I'm envisioning you tell Cecil and McGowan to prepare spring training for starting, just have 4 or 5 guys trying out and maybe you get lucky and find another Rogers. Dickey/Buerhle/Rogers/Happ/? with Cecil being best bet. Any of the injured guys can pitch its even better. Romero, who knows ? If not Cano ( may be impractical but dream big ), you bring in a couple of lesser hitters that upgrade you at LF/DH/2B. Catcher I'd just go for defensive excellence or go with a bridge guy like Buck for a year. So while better starters sounds like a good idea, maybe there just aren't guys out there. So address the hitting and hope somebody steps up on the starting staff. Wouldn't surprise me if somebody does, lot of maybe's that are better then extreme long shots. btw Note I left Johnson out. That's my bias. I'd like to move him.

Still you only see numbers, and no perspective. He's hit in the two spot too much, and his walks two years ago involved a fair number of intentional situations. Last year, he got injured. Here's my prediction. The numeric trend will end in 2014. Let's see. If it does will you promise to stop these posts ?

FireAlex is pretty much just a dumb ass really. Many teams would love to add Bautista to their line up. Hell, the Yankees have made a history of signing vet slugging stars who are for one reason or another are disliked. He's the kind of guy who could put up 4 or 5 more good years. Hard to take the board seriously when Bautista is signed at $14M per season several seasons and Johnson with his almost 6 era and 1 win is supposed to be a bargain at the same price. I guess if we lost Bautista the production would supposably come from Melky and his warning track power ? That's whst $8M gets these days I guess.

Impossible to know when he's too young and hasn't really had a strong year under minimal playing time. Problem is, the clock is already running on when he would have to be signed for big money down the road. What you'd have to do is pull up a reliable list of similar guys in the past and see how many of them became great and how many disappointed. What I'd note is guys like Harper and Trout were just good immediately, even Lawrie was really good his first go around. That's got to indicate some risk even if plenty of people think he's on the superstar track.

This is one of the stupidest posts I've read on this forum. Bautista would look good in almost any teams OF. There are dozens of 1B/DH types in baseball; what a terrible waste it would be to put him there. But you know what, you fit right into the usual bitch fest about putting down our best players and propping up every prospect like they are the solution to everything. With Bautista, this team is a possible World Series contender in 2014. They just need to make a couple of good moves. Without him, its a rebuild phase that sees almost every current vet in 2016 not on contract or due a major upgrade in money if they are any good. EE might be a better choice to move given the redundancies on the team. Better be a damn good trade though the guy is clutch.

You are so lost in stats his funny. Bautista and his "declining numbers" !!! He remains one of the best hitters in the game, and quality hitters often remain good long after marginal hitters do. Paul Molitor was how old when they won the World Series ? And he's nicely on contract multi-year at a time when baseball is flush with cash and quality free agents are getting expensive. And, predictably, you end with your usual crap to complain about AA on EVERY SINGLE TOPIC THAT COMES UP. If trading a guy like Bautista is such a must do thing, why is it that I have a hard time thinking about a guy like this moving in years unless their contract is up ? Oh ya, I guess its as frequent as teams the caliber of Toronto doing a complete purge of their team. You have serious perspective problems. Get yourself off your spreadsheets and think a little.

Well with $14M burning in your pocket you better spend it before other options appear ? I guess they could emulate the AJ Burnett project and sign him long term. I'm going to go way out on a limb here and predict he's a major disappointment next season if he signs with the Jays. Call me crazy. Maybe I'm wrong and Johnson and Cabrera will tear up the league and justify their salaries. Moneyball anyone ?

Who will be the next Dustin McGowan or Eric Hinske ? Only partially kidding.

Because you keep trolling. The whole subthread about pitching wins is stupid, evaluating a pitcher requires looking at numerous stats together. For example, Buehrle is said to present value because he pitches 200 innings every year. I'm not here to figure out how true that is, but the real baseball execs value it so its a factor. He's making a heck of a lot of money for a soft tossing finesse pitcher, but obviously somebody set his market value there.

This pitching win topic comes up all the time on these forums and its stupid. I never said wins was my favorite stat at all, all the stats paint a picture. If wins meant NOTHING then guys like Tim Wakefield and Jack Morris wouldn't have been nearly as respected as they were. They were battlers though. Some of the new wave stats might make some people feel sophisticated, but the same stats can be misused as well. I guarantee you my educational background in math is stronger then 99% of the people who post on this forum. Apparently, in order to post here, one must rehash the entire context of what you are replying to and add all sorts of constraints to your point. Or one can just say to hell with that its a CHAT SITE and I never meant what you are claiming. I think I choose to hell with the bs I'll post and the hamburger troller ( and others ) can go to hell I don't care. The topic was signing Johnson. My point was he may be injury prone, looks uncomfortable pitching in the SkyDome, and hasn't had what would be characterized as a strong season since 2010. While none of that guarantees he will be bad again next year, he's a huge gamble for the Jays in the AL East. People can analyze stats to death, but he's on a ONE win season and his timing on when he blows up is often terrible. Maybe he's good next year, but I'd rather drop him and try someone else. Maybe its just Toronto. The Yankees bring in a lot of free agents and some do very well but others just never adjust.