jaysblue

Was having a discussion with a friend and we were talking about starting pitchers after Bowden Francis pitched another gem last night. He mentioned since 2000 the Jays really haven't developed any consistently good SPs other than Roy Halladay and Marcus Stroman, starting pitchers who went onto have long & successful careers. Like damn when you think about it. I asked him what about Ricky Romero, Shaun Marcum and maybe Alek Manoah can be thrown into that mix. But yeah, they all had success only in the short term (Romero for 3 seasons from 2009-2011), (Marcum from 2007-2012; missed all of 2009), Alek Manoah (2021 & 2022). Kinda of shocking that this organization as a whole under three-four different regimes, the only two consistently arms developed were Halladay and Stroman.

LOL you found out because you just picked him up in fantasy baseball this morning.

Yeah I understand. I don't have a problem with Bassitt sticking around next season since his contract is expiring anyways. He'll still be a solid starter and eat his innings which is valuable. Eovaldi I'm assuming is going to cost around $18-20M AAV on a short term deal like maybe 2 or 3 years. And the last two seasons both him and Bassitt have been pretty identical. Not sure what Flaherty gets, but he likely also could cost around $18-20M AAV and given his age might get more years, depending if teams believe he can remain healthy.

If they were willing to throw whatever money at Ohtani last winter, you would think they would go into this offseason trying to sign both Soto and Vladdy long term. Never going to have that opportunity again to lock up two of the premium young bats in the game. Even when top players become FA's for the first time, they're either around 29 or 30. Would definitely be a nice recovery from the Ohtani fiasco last winter. If the Jays could sign Soto and re-sign Vlad, maybe that's the pivot we were waiting for.

I for one was critical of the Bassitt signing at the time thinking 3 years and $63M was absurd for a guy who was 34. I was even arguing that Kyle Gibson would have been a better signing on a one-year deal. Overall, Bassitt has been pretty decent however, providing durability and innings. He posted a 2.4 fWAR last season and this season so far has posted a 2.2 fWAR. There is some value in that, even for 2025 if the Jays plan on contending. Not the sexiest arm in the rotation but over 162 games, he's proven he can be valuable. I wouldn't toss him to the curve just yet.

Sorry but wasn't it just last season most considered Chris Bassitt a bargain and an awesome FA signing? Now everyone wants him gone? lol.

Yeah shocked nobody mentioned Flaherty's name as a possible candidate for the rotation. Is he for real now?

You're never going to get that opportunity signing two of the games youngest stars and having them for at least 5 to 6 years of their prime years together. If you're going to go all in, I would go big with both Soto and Vlad haha.

Yeah I'm not too crazy about Santander at 4 years/$80M either. He's an interesting player for reasons you mentioned. He doesn't strikeout a ton for someone with a lot of power and only hitting .234 haha and he is a switch hitter. Who knows what the market is like for corner OF/DH's this offseason. I would actually prefer Teo if he doesn't require as many years and a bit less money, though I think Teo costs around $18-20M AAV on a multi-year deal. Both Teo and Santander have been pretty equal this season and there's not much of an age difference. With Snell, you're hoping to get 3.5 to 4 WAR from him if he's healthy. If you can sign Snell to a short term deal like 3 years with a high AAV, would prefer that. If he's going to ask for five years, I wouldn't mind Eovaldi or bringing back Kikuchi as an alternative.

I like Snell and think he would be a great fit here, but the numbers being thrown around are like 4-5 years worth $100M. I'm all for it, but realistically the Jays don't have an unlimited payroll so that means Snell takes them out of the running for a big power bat like Santander or Alonso or even Teo. That means they have to likely dip down to the next tier of bats like Tyler O'Neill, Joc Pederson, Michael Conforto or even the awful Max Kepler. As well, they likely need TWO bats, not one! I wonder though if some posters like Brownie would be okay with that, since when mentioning those guys as a second bat to target, he went crazy! I'm not sure he would be able to cope with having two bats from that tier. As for Snell, he's going to be 32 next season and the Jays will have 4 starting pitchers above 30 all making over $20M each lol. How did we ever get to that point? Also, one thing concerning with Snell is the high BB rate. He posted a 4.95 BB/9 in 2023 and this year again its above 4. Otherwise, he's great but as he ages and if there is some regression, that high BB rate could hurt him more down the road in the latter part of his contract.

Ryu In My House also forgot to mention that Anthony Rendon would be a great trade target at 3B.

At least the Orioles will be playing baseball in October. Geez what an awful team and organization!

Anyway you think the Jays could get both Snell and Santander?

Let's sign Soto, Snell, Bregman and Santander. As well for the bullpen, sign Kenley Jansen and Jeff Hoffman.

Just curious who at 3B would be an impactful player if brought in? Are we talking about signing Bregman or Chapman? Not many 3B available via free agency or trade. But please suggest some names. I think a lot of us agreed having Clement as a 3B since he would be cheap and at least decent wouldn't be a bad thing if the Jays needed to save money. You can likely squeeze 2+ WAR out of him. As for 1B, would you sign Pete Alonso or Christian Walker to play 1B and move Vlad to 3B where he plays there at least 75% of the time? Are there any other 1B on the trade market you would suggest? They need to add 3-4 WAR each from the two bats they add, not combined lol. Then also add another mid-rotation SP that could provide around 3 WAR along with some bullpen pieces as well.

You're trying to address the lack of power in the lineup. Most likely any corner OF you bring in can't be relied on to play CF over an extended period of time. Kepler played 22 games in CF in 2021 and 60 in 2019. Conforto last played 39 games in CF in 2019. Tyler O'Neill played 13 games in 2023 and 21 games in 2022. Anthony Santander last played CF in 2019 in 24 games. I'm sure in an emergency, or over a short period of time these guys could play some CF, but ideally you have Loperfido as your 4th outfielder who can play CF heading into 2025, not as your starting left fielder.

Ideally, the roster does need TWO IMPACT bats either at LF or DH. You hope you can get 3-4 WAR seasons from those two bats you bring in this offseason. If they only can get one like Santander for one of those spots, they might have to settle on someone like O'Neill, Conforto or Kepler as a second bat. Outfield depth isn't a bad thing given Springer will be 35 next season. As well, losing Varsho for an extended period of time in CF would hurt. Having Barger, Schneider, Loperfido, Horwitz, Clase, or Wagner as insurance puts the Jays in a better position over 162 games. I expect Horwitz to be the everyday 2B next season anyways. The team needs to add power to the lineup. If someone like O'Neill or Kepler offer 25 HR + upside, would rather roll with them in LF or at DH over the guys mentioned above. If they don't pan out or if injuries happen, then you have that depth which is a good thing.

You're making it sound like I was suggesting Max Kepler should be the Jays No. #1 target this offseason lol. Give it a rest man! Even guys like Term said Kepler wouldn't be a bad second bat if the Jays weren't able to land anyone else better. Why don't you offer some suggestions on some possible free agents rather than sitting back and criticizing others? Stop trying to pick these stupid senseless arguments in order to try and sound superior. Kepler's name was brought up as an option if the Jays missed out on other FA targets this offseason. You're so insufferable man.

There is nothing wrong with Max Kepler as a second bat if other bats are off the table later in the offseason or are too expensive and the Jays need to be conscious of payroll. Nobody is suggesting the Jays sign Max Kepler on Day 1 of the offseason lol. All I said is he actually wouldn't be a bad option. Brownie, Max and Spanky just love disagreeing when I throw a name out there, but they never offer any suggestions of their own. Laika made some good points above. I disagree however grouping him in with the crusty veterans like IKF/KK and Turner. Kepler will be 32 next season and at least has some upside offensively in terms of power. If Kepler is going to cost $10M, I agree that is too expensive. Would rather sign Conforto if he came on a one-year contract around that AAV. Regardless, hopefully the Jays could target two better bats this offseason!

Tigers would have to eat like $18M-20M or so of his 23.3M AAV over the remaining three years lol. After 2025, the FA shortstop class is Bo, Trevor Story (if he decides to opt-out), Tommy Edman, Will Castro and Jorge Mateo. Nothing that great. A Springer for Baez swap could make sense since they're both bad contracts, but would need the Tigers to eat the extra year Baez has left. Springer is most likely just a 2 WAR guy unless he has some rejuvenated year at the age of 35 or 36. Baez the last two seasons has been really awful however (-0.1 WAR combined lol). If he could be a 2 WAR infielder with strong defense, like it's not bad. Doubt we see him post 4 to 5 WAR seasons again. He's still just 31. But there is a chance Baez is a negative WAR player, whereas at least you know with Springer he's going to give you around 1.5 - 2 WAR even if he sucks. Though logistically, Tigers have a crowded OF, so Springer would have to DH mostly while playing sparingly in a corner. I just don't see it happening. If the Jays are contending, would prefer them to aim higher at shortstop. Unless they swap a bad contract like Springer, which makes it easier to target a big bat in RF. If they're in retool mode, then roll with Orelvis Martínez.

Yeah good point Term. We'll have an idea what the A's do this offseason and likely aren't going to be cheap as they once were since they probably want to try to field a WC contending team during their first season in Vegas.

In 2023, his 124 wRC+ would have ranked third behind Brandon Belt (138 wRC+) and Bo Bichette (125 wRC+). His 2.8 fWAR would have ranked third as well. And his 24 HR's would have ranked second on the team, behind Vlad's 26. Yeah he's s*** and his bat would have no place in this Jays lineup lol.

Yeah I think we all agree that the team needs to shoot the highest it can this offseason. Soto would be the prize but as an ideal pivot if you could sign Santander along with one of Teo, Pederson, O'Neill that would be perfect. Then they'll need around $15M+ or so to bring in a second tier SP like Eovaldi, Kikuchi, Severino or Pivetta on a short term deal to shore up the middle of the rotation and then they will need to spend maybe around $10-15M on bringing in a couple of bullpen arms. That doesn't even include a third baseman, since I'm assuming they want to save some money and roll with Clement at the hot corner. If they don't care about going over the luxury tax, then sure! But if they have to watch every nickel and dime, they might have to target a lesser outfielder as a second bat like Max Kepler or Michael Conforto since they would be cheaper than Santander, Teo, Pederson or O'Neill.

I also DFA'd him in the LOD.

Same here as well, but realistically this team needs to add power to the lineup and if it means sacrificing a bit of defense in LF for a guy who could hit 25-30 HR's, it's something you can live with. The Jays can't afford to field an all-defensive lineup as we saw for the past two seasons as it didn't work. Especially if they plan on rolling with Clement at 3B, they can't afford playing someone like KK again in the outfield on an everyday basis.