John_Havok

Very true. I wasn't trying to suggest a winner of the trade, more so that the deal realy just amounts to a purchase of prospects for a bad contract and a depth SP. If Hutch works out for the Pirates, then its likely a win/win

Some differences on where the team was at the time. One was rebuilding and grabbing all kinds of youth was a definite positive. This team is in the thick of contention, and still the GM manages to acquire prospects and arguably improve the current roster (not by alot mind you). It's a pretty ninja move that I would liken to when AA picked up Olivo and all those Type B pen arms, just to offer an arbitration deal and take extra picks. Simplistically, Atkins just bought two prospects for 17 million dollars less any actual value that Liriano provides between now and the end of next year.

That ball still hasn't landed. Wow

He's not commenting on the talent level of the players and prospects. He's saying the league should step in because the Pirates are dumping salary, while they continue to receive max revenue sharing and extra picks in the draft every year because of their market

He's commenting on the pirates dumping salary while they receive max revenue sharing and potentially extra picks in the draft every year. It's a valid point of view

US Cellular and Wrigley crossed of my list. Atlanta's new park is on next year's list

No argument there

Ramirez was ranked their #5 prospect by fangraphs prior to 2016, and McGuire was #3. Both are hit tool oriented guys with minimal power, but with McGuire being also a decent rated defensive catcher, he becomes Martin's replacement down the line.

Scouting reports on the two picked up prospects from Dan Farnsworth of Fangraphs prior to 2016 season Ramirez is a very unique hitter to watch at this stage of his career. His hit tool may already be above-average at the major-league level, but the way it works is awkward to see. To me, it looks like someone took one of the most athletic upper halves in baseball and plopped it on some sort of swiveling rocking chair. Not to downplay his overall athletic ability, since he does have plus raw speed and a (very?) outside chance at sticking in center field. Most likely he ends up a corner outfielder light on arm strength and power but with enough on-base ability to be a well above-average regular, hitting his way into a starting role. As alluded to above, Ramirez’ legs and hands work on completely different wavelengths, making his raw power pretty untouchable and leaving him looking fooled on a lot of swings. The fun part is his hands and barrel awareness are so good that he can consistently dump balls in the outfield even when he has completely lost his balance over his legs. In the video above, this manifests itself in a swing on which Ramirez appears to have been punched in the stomach by an invisible fist, hanging on for dear life to make contact, only to square it up and hit a sure single into left field. Major-league pitchers will be able to get him off balance more than he is now, but there’s a special place in the game for hitters with his ability to barrel the ball. Even if he is limited to left field defensively, his hit tool will carry him into a valued job in the big leagues. Hit: 50/60+/70 Power: 30/35/40 Run: 55/50/55 Field: 50/50/50+ Throw: 45/45/45 Overall: 40/55/65 I was pleasantly surprised with the Reese McGuire that showed up in the Arizona Fall League; he finally showed some potential to use his plus bat speed to drive the ball with some authority instead of just making contact. It wasn’t just the numbers where he showed improvement either; his swing looked like it was meant to be doing some damage. He still has work to do on both his offense and defense, but the changes this fall were encouraging enough to project him closer to his offensive ceiling than I would have admitted at this time last year. Prior to the fall, McGuire had the same bat speed and loose, athletic swing, but his swing plane was geared for low line drives and ground balls. To that end, he had delivered through the regular season last year, with few swings and misses but not much to show for it. His path in the fall looked good enough to tap into his above-average raw power given enough time to develop, making him a much more interesting prospect than the good-glove, questionable-hitting catcher he looked like before. He has plus arm strength out of the crouch, but below-average footwork and transfers pull his current arm grade down to average. He gets great reviews for calling a game behind the plate, and present above-average receiving and average blocking ability give him plenty of skills to be a valuable backstop. Team sources swear by his receiving work as a whole, so I’m trusting their judgment by bumping his future grades up. With the emphasis the Pirates have placed on his defense, it’s reasonable to see future gains made in all his defensive tools, giving him upside as a true plus defender. His improved hitting forecast makes the total package look like an above-average regular at minimum. Hit: 35/50/55 Power: 35/45/50+ Run: 45/40/45 Field: 55/60/60+ Throw: 50/55/60 Overall: 35/55-60/65

Kevin Newman would be nice but that's probably wishful thinking Edit... Wtf... Reese McGuire? This is amazing

As they do in every market

Even better. 17 million must be the total money owed between now and the end of next year

Good thing we didn't have a Drew Chavez.. he'd be gone for sure

Bingo. Essentially this is the Jays agreeing to take money and and arm, for another arm and 2 prospects and the pleasure of paying Liriano 17 million for 1 year in 2017. Theres no such thing as a bad one year deal.

I agree with all your ponts, but subtracted for everytime OF was used when you should HAVE used the word HAVE instead.

Jays still talking about Hellickson also

Sanchez insurance maybe?

I think alot of folks have it in their heads that a major win-now move is needed, and for some reason think that the Santana trade would be that move and are reacting accordingly .... when it's obviously not much of a needle mover for 2016, but makes sense for the next 3.

12:37pm: ESPN’s Jerry Crasnick now tweets that a medical issue may be holding up the Mets’ acquisition of Bruce. Crasnick adds that the severity of the issue isn’t known, but the medicals are no longer a formality.

I can say I'd rather pay Santana 13.5 million than pay Dickey plus Thole their combined 12.8. It's probably not rational...but what can I say. I hate 1 trick pony pitchers

More to it than that, but he got a last minute better offer and took it

Lol. Greene would be likely ... or Rios as the main piece. SRF would not be on the table

Cubs are in on Smith