leaffie

Yes, it is kind of his job. But you had a pitcher, that had no injury problems, no TJ surgery in his future. Had successfully pitched to a very good record for three years. You cannot project injuries, no matter who you sign. BUT I REPEAT, I DID NOT LIKE THIS TRADE.

You can't be blind to see that the direction of the team changed drastically. Alex went from making shrewd, creative moves like nabbing Olivo and turning him into a comp pick, to making two large moves that pretty much any GM in baseball could make. Why has Alex completely stopped making creative moves? It's like he's given up? " Of course not, but that is not what this discussion was about to start with. It was would AA be fired, and I said no. He has done his job, whether the "real" fans appreciate this or not. AA used and abused the sytem, and they changed it. You can't get a draft pick anymore for dumping off players at the deadline. You know this. There are now restrictions on how much you can spend on the international market, so they cut that avenue off. You and I had a similar discussion before the end of last season. I said then, that AA could not and would not let the momentum that was being built, slip away because of all the injuries in 2012. He went out and did what he always said, he used his farm and made trades. "AA sacrificed the future for the now" But the question was and always will be, when was the future? How many years before those prospects came up and made a difference. 3 years, 5 years? They were never all going to get there together, so they were used. The only teams in baseball that seem to manage to get their prospects to the majors and all doing well, is Tampa and St. Louis. You know that the odds of being drafted and having a player actually make it to the majors is about 1 in 5. So all this raving about him thrashing the farm, is tiresome. Who has he traded off, that has over achieved, except Escobar, and that is one mistake that AA needs to own. He should have never traded him, but a bunch of sanctimonious experts decided that he needed to go, including lots that posted on the old board. Yes, he traded prospects, and some that look good. But , succeeding in AA means nothing, until they prove themselves in the majors. I certainly understand the sabremetrics, I understand why they are constantly used to compare A and B. But that is not always the be all/end all of a ballplayer. I said I didn't like the Dickey trade, not from the very first word of it. But he had successfully pitched for three years, won for a team that was terrible, and won the CY. It is easy to see why AA traded for him. Who else was out there that was willing to come to TO. If this team was to move forward again, it HAD to get some pitching. This "casual" fan tag that seems to get placed on people that don't agree, or don't spend every minute studying prospects sheets is insulting. They can care about the team just as much as anyone. But maybe they don't care about winning 5 years from now. And what exactly is wrong with that? A lot of them have waited a long time, and wanted a team that had a chance. AA put that team on the field. They didn't perform for various reasons, and that is the sad situation of this year. But a GM's job is to run a successful ball club. AA has done that. He said at the time, this was a three year process, and I would suggest that he should be given his three years.

Right, and that is AA's fault how???

Because I don't agree with some posters, I am AA's cousin. Hardly. I said I didn't like the Dickey trade. But if he had come to this team, and they had all played to their capabilities and made the playoffs, there would not be this cry to fire AA. No one including you, likes every trade or acquisition, no matter who is the coach, gm or manager.

A trade to get a CY pitcher should always be a viable option. I didn't like the Dickey trade at all, but if he had won 18 games this year, this would not have been a dumbass trade.

Hindsight is always 20/20. You just said "Its funny, looking back we were all most excited about Drabek and then Taylor, and then Wallace after he was acquired. d'Arnaud was always thought of as the 3rd piece in the deal. " So opinions change. It doesn't mean that AA was 100% correct. But he wasn't wrong either. Fans loved JPA, including most on this board, who were hollering for him to be brought up. How dare Cito sit this next Johnny Bench. And if you took a poll and people were honest, there were very few last October that soured on AA.

The feeling from the posters you AGREE with felt that way . I am not saying that this is right or wrong. But the posters that disagreed were posters that apply a number to ever stat. They have every move calculated out to financial cost, prospect cost, etc. etc. But that is a small portion of the fan base. As indicated by the increase in attendance, TV ratings, cross country interest, and the constant Jays jersey that you see in every ball park they have played in, the majority of fans, do not look at this game as numbers. They don't care what it costs, and they don't care if AA sent prospects off for major league players. They want a team that FINALLY looked like it had a chance. And on paper, that team looked like it had a very good chance, and a lot of baseball experts agreed. This was not just wishful thinking on AA's part. So AA is a bumbling idiot after last off season, but he was very good before that????

AA is not getting fired this off season. Hopefully, the FO is not as fickle as most posters on this board. When he took over and started building the farm from 28th to top 5, he was wonderful. When he unloaded Wells contract, he was unbeatable. When he signed Bautista and Encarnacion to extremely team friendly contracts, everyone raved about him. The Morrow trade, another feather in his cap. Now some, didn't like his off season, where he used the farm system. Fine, but this team was building momentum until all the injuries last year, and this club could not afford to let this slip. Opportunity came along and most didn't mind the Marlins trade. And even posters that hated the thought of losing all those prospects, were excited for the season to begin. Momentum grew, tickets were bought, jerseys flew off the shelves. The Dickey trade was to be the final peg, and that one didn't work out. Partly due to the neck injury to Dickey and partly due to a natural regression when joining the AL east. But the defense was poor, the pitching was bad and we are where we are today. He did exactly what a GM is supposed to do. He attempted to put a better club on the field, than the year before. Most pundits had this team making the playoffs. And if the injuries hadn't happened, with players playing out of position, or not even on the field for half the year. If the pitchers had done their job even halfway, this season would have been a different story. And the same people that are now yelling to fire AA and Beeston, would be the ones cheering. But attendance is up, the money is pouring in. Even with this disaster, the interest is still there. AA will not be fired!!!

At first the" fire the manager" people, said that the only thing that Gibbons did right was manage his bullpen well. Now that the bullpen is struggling because of overwork, now they are saying fire him because he can't run a bullpen. He was not my choice, but this has been a season of unbelievable losses, injuries, under production, players playing out of position, and I doubt he can be blamed for any of it. I will not be surprised though, if AA isn't pressured into letting him go.

Read something yesterday that said, even though it wasn't Gibbons fault, Rogers might have something to say, just for appearance sake. Might have been Davidi.

Don't always believe what "people" tell you.

My word. Lawrie has been hitting on all cylinders since he is finally healthy. I haven't seen any of what the OP is talking about. It seems that fans of this team are never happy. If they show some attitude and swagger, they don't want that. If they show nothing, just sitting in the dugout, they don't want that either. Somewhere along the'line, the internet has turned baseball fans into experts on everything, who are never happy and do nothing but criticize. Give me some more Brett Lawries on this team, and they wouldn't be in last place.

I swear if JP is catching next year, I am getting a new team.

Or maybe he wasn't moved because no one offered enough. You guys always assume that the reason there were no changes, was AA's fault. But you would be the same ones ripping him a new one, if they traded him and got a low minor prospect for him. Neil Huntington was on XM, and he said that in all his years with baseball, he has never seen a trade deadline like it. Too many teams think they are still in it and won't trade, or the ones that had pieces wanted so much that it was impossible to make a trade. With the way the draft has changed, no one is going to give up anything that has even a chance to be valuable to a team.

The traffic was ridiculous on the way back. The game ended at 4:15 or so and we didn't get out of Safeco's parkade until 6 (yes, it took an hour and 45 minutes to just get out of the parkade), and then didn't get out of Seattle itself until around 8. The border wait at 10:30pm was 90 minutes at least - we thought it was a typo but we had no idea how wrong we were... Since we had to catch a ferry to the island, we left at 4:00. thank goodness we did or we would have never caught the ferry.

Missed the start of yesterdays game. Fighting the traffic to get there. I thought all the players were engaged, hanging on the fence the entire first game.

I was there for the three games, and had a great time. Listened to the seattle broadcast while at the games. They were very, very impressed. Thought Canadian fans, even though they had taken over the park, were not doing it in a mean and spiteful face, like Boston fans do when they come to town. Said that even though the Mariners were losing first two games, thought that Sundays Mariners fans came out to support their team. Were surprised that the Jays were in last place, considering the talent that they saw on the field. Things I noticed from the games: Gibbons was everywhere talking to players one on one during BP. Always with an arm on player, like a father. JPA was the only player, that stood and signed autographs. Went down the line signing, but picked out all the kids, first for signing. Both my grands were there and got their jerseys signed. Still think he is a lousy player, but was impressed with that. Lawrie seems to have great interaction with all the players. Rasmus, Lind and Reyes, especially seem to seek him out, between innings. Much more than you ever see on TV. Lawrie's mom and dad were on the field with him during second pregame. Mom gave him a big hug and a kiss, and like all moms, then reached up and wiped the lipstick off his face. Only another mom would appreciate this one. Thought that Encarnacion looked like he might have a nagging injury. Was kind of dragging himself around listlessly. Just an opinion, but believe this team is playing like a team, more than it appears on TV. Sitting in the stands yesterday, you could tell that they were going to lose this game. All of a sudden they just got flat, and everyone around us thought the same thing. IMO, Lawrie will become the leader on this team, if he can stay on the field. Bautista is not it.

speaking of McGowan, did I miss an injury or was this just a way of getting santos back.

second that'motion.

I still think that JP's game calling is part of the problem with the pitchers.

Better than what?

Or to hell with it all, and go for the first pick next year in the draft. We aren't that far off. With a little effort, even the Jays might manage to get something right.

well they won't need quite 100 million :-)

sorry don't know why this posted twice.

Keep Lawrie, encarnacion, rasmus, reyes, davis, dickey, the bullpen, sell Bautista for pitching, and jettison the rest for as much as you can get. Start over.