leaffie

well I guess when the results of Atkins knowledge become apparent, we can all see better results on the field.

You know what, if that was the only mistake they made, but the team was moving forward, then I agree. This team has the same look that Ricciardis had for numerous years. Always the promise of the great draft prospects, but never a good team. This is the worst defensive team I can remember the Jays having in years, and that is no one's fault but the people doing the hiring. I love the Jays, and my hope is for a team that plays good baseball, has a chance to win no matter the opponent, and has a long term future. I just don't see it, and I obviously hope I am wrong. I said the same thing when they hired Shapiro and got blasted , so I guess I will wait for another three years. But the point of this discussion was the McCown show and they didn't say anything on there that wasn't true.

I didn't say, that not trading Happ by now was a mistake. What they said on the broadcast was that they were taking a chance of diminishing returns on Happ by still having him on the roster , and that is absolutely correct. He had three crap outings in a row. You don't think his stock went down just a little. It doesn't really matter. He is one of a very few assets we have to trade that is going to bring much back, and that is what the discussion on McCown was about. This team should have been torn down last year at the latest and most everyone on this board knows it.

I know that this is Shapiro's third season in charge. This year is a washout and what I said was we are coming up to year four of Shapiro, and that is correct. So next year will be another washout, so now we are looking at year five before there is any hope. Took Shapiro about ten years in Cleveland, and I guess that is about what we are looking at, unless he gets fired. AA came in and I am not wasting my time or yours defending him, but he rebuilt the farm and EVERYONE could see the future on that farm. You could see the talent bubbling up. Everyone knows who he traded and what we received. But you could see a future. How is the future looking so far? What year do you think the Jays will be a legitimate contender, and I don't mean for the second wildcard one and done game. How is their future compared to the Sox and Yankees looking? The McCown show yesterday that was quite informative for anyone that actually listened. They asked a lot of questions that if anyone got over their adoration of Shapiro, would want answered.

Those know nothing guys knew enough to state that the hiring of Morales and the letting Encarnacion go was a big mistake. They also knew that Donaldson should have been traded before now, when the Jays will be lucky to get someone to take an oft injured old third baseman. They said that Happ should have been traded by now, and they are right on that one. Maybe no deals have materialized, but they were still right in that Happ should be gone before his value diminishes. Shapiro has improved the farm system, no doubt. But what other results have appeared. Those know nothings also said that. They said, who will be with this team in two years and other than perhaps Guerrero, that is a good question. They said there is no plan, and from all appearances, their plan is to try and suck while rebuilding. I know that I am probably the only one that holds this opinion, and I stated it when he was hired. I don't like Shapiro and never have. This team is muddling through and nothing is being done. This is another JP Ricciardi with a bigger payroll. Oh right, they traded Pearce, another oft injured player that Shapiro hired. Numerous members on this board have pushed for the trades of Stroman and Sanchez, and McCown said exactly the same thing. He doesn't like Stroman and it is obvious. So obviously, they do know something about baseball. He also said that he would rather watch the youngsters come up and play than watch this boring, defensively challenged team. Nothing wrong with that. Guerrero is held out as the hope for the Jays, when there is very little pitching on the farm. Yes, he might be a superstar, but where is the supporting cast. So far there is Bichette and Jansen, where are they getting the rest of the team. And unless I am mistaken Guerrero was signed under AA, that guy that everyone hates. Shapiro came to the Jays knowing the state of the farm system and the state of the team and their ages etc. If he couldn't convince management that a total rebuild was needed, IMO, he should have stayed where he was. We are coming up to year four of Shapiro and it will be a total washout year, so when does the success under Shapiro start? The guys on the McCown show were asking the same question and as Jays fans everyone should be asking that.

Just a question. Will the games he missed already be included in any suspension, should he be found guilty.

While I agree with what Shapiro is doing, they are doing it half assed imo. He knew when he took this job, that this was the future with the farm system we had. He should have made it plain to management that this is what was needed and a total tear down would have been less painful in the long run. Or he shouldn't have taken the job. We are now into year three, and while there is a wave coming, everyone knows, that not all prospects turn out, and realistically it is at least two more years away. The attendance has plummeted and will only get worse. Would it not have been better to trade off everyone that was not going to be in the future last year, especially now when we are seeing the injuries pile up for our older players. Now we are left with fewer pieces that anyone will want. Besides the Morales signing that was a huge mistake, Shapiro is on track to rebuild a team but will the fans still be there when it is done. I still watch all the games, but the terrible defensive play, the pitching that is lackluster and a bullpen that is worn out, this season will only get worse. I find the games boring, and a lot of players play like they are bored too. I have watched through all the building years from the first game, I watched through Gord Ash and JP and I probably will continue, but this team is a terrible team, and it gets harder and harder to watch an entire game. But as a Blue jays fan that loves this team, there is always next year.

Or it might have been that EE was trying to get the most he could, and before negotiations really started, Shapiro signed Morales.

While I think it will be a mistake to fire Gibby, lots of managers have been wrongly fired to change the dynamics of the team, or to cover the butts of the guys that put this team together

This used to be a really good defensive team. What in the hell has happened. I know they are trying to rebuild on the fly, but surely they could find someone that can catch the ball.

Lengthy discussion this morning on Sirius Xm on this very subject. Bowden was one of hosts and didnt catch other. Both felt he should be up. Thought he could be difference in making playoffs. Said thought they were waiting until after June 1st because that could affect the super two to the benefit of the jays. Also said should let Morales go, put Vlad in left, DH JD for some of time and let Vlad play 3rd. On alternate days. Think the Jays will bring him straight from AA or else why hasnt he been moved to AAA.. also said it will show very poorly on Jays if they keep him down just because of his age.

Gibby since he came back has always been praised for his clubhouse management. Shapiro resigned Gibby when if he really wanted someone could have easily got rid of him. Shapiro is a big Gibby supporter. If players can't hit, or pitch, or come out of the bullpen and manage to get the ball over the plate, that is not his fault. It is not his fault if mlb players get to the majors and still can't hit the cutoff man or know which base to throw the ball to. I have seen more dumb plays this year than I can remember for a long time. That is not Gibby's fault. Sometimes the players on the field have to take responsibility for their poor play. Morales should never have been signed and was the one big mistake that I think Shapiro has made. But you know what, the guy could make an effort and run down to first as hard as he could. He could make an effort and lose a few pounds. Does he spend any time in the batting cage? The pitchers in the bullpen had the best record in mlb for awhile. Now they are so overworked, because our starters either can't go more than five or are injured. Again, not Gibby's fault. It is always too easy to scapegoat. This is not a good team, and that is the truth. I understand why it isn't, but I am not blaming the coaches or management. Blame the caliber of players that are on the team. Most posters think they should have just bit the bullet and started the rebuild, but it didn't happen and now this is the team we have.

This is not Gibby's fault. He can only use what he was given.

The problem is, the poor play of the team could result in Gibby getting fired. This team is playing like the teams of Ricciardi. They always started out with a hope to make the playoffs IF everything went right. Well nothing is going right, and it has exposed how untalented this team really is. Most of them are trying too hard, resulting in mistakes. Some like Morales, are giving no effort and should be gone. Some of them are making the same errors over and over again. Are they uncoachable or is no one correcting them. Perhaps Shapiro was forced into this by Rogers, lets hope so. If not, this team is in big trouble for a lot of years. And Guerrero is not going to fix it. Where is the pitching? Other than a couple of names in the minors that already are being suggested as bullpen, who is going to pitch for this team? That game today was disgusting and obviously the fans at the game thought so too. And as a long time jays fan, it absolutely pains me to say this.

Boy, JD is having a bad day

I hope they dont wait til the deadline. This team is exactly what we are seeing for the past ten days or so. It is not getting any better and I hope they get out in front of all the other teams that will be looking to trade and get younger.

Me Too!! and that is not about the women's movement, but about reading that article. He obviously has some axe to grind. I don't care if Osuna is the best closer that ever walked the earth, if he did this, then he will get his punishment and it will be well deserved. But if this was a case of alcohol and mistakes on both parts, then articles like this are undeserved and sanctimonious. For many years, I have seen the damage that can be done by men that are out of control to women, but have always believed that both names should be kept out of it, until charges have been laid and all court proceedings are finished. Then if the man is guilty, then he can bear the consequences.

[Furthermore, it probably explains Osunas mental health issues if he was with some manipulative psycho. " So without knowing a single fact, this has become the woman's fault. She must be a gold digger who has flipped out because perhaps he has a message on his cel phone and now the woman is the cause of his depression. Why don't we just wait until there are some actual facts. It was not the woman that was arrested, no matter what has gone on. It is well documented that Osuna suffers from depression. I hope that this is all overblown and the police were just removing him from the scene to calm a volatile situation, which is what they do quite often. He is very young and young people make mistakes, and I hope that this is what this is. Until then, perhaps the blame the woman segment could lay off.

No one in this thread that I can see is calling him the devil or rejecting him. Most have said, lets wait until we have more,information.

It is bad enough that Morales is batting under 200,but his lack of effort running to first, should guarantee him a seat on the bench.

They had yesterday's games on facebook, and all you could see was their advertisement for streaming live mlb. Absolutely frustrating. I hope it is a little better today. And I don't know how to break this to mlb, but us old people have facebook accounts to keep up with kids and grands, and I absolutely HATE having ball games on there. If I want to watch mlb on line, I can use mlb at bat, or a free stream that you guys provide. If they want a younger age demographic attending baseball games, spend some money on ballparks, little league and youth baseball. Develop the love for the game when they are young, not when they are 30.

JFL great work. Keep it up!!

We all know that the Yankees have a really good team this year, but it is only the first series and I am already sick of Pat and Buck fawning. SHUT UP.

Seems like since the mlb board shut down, this one was been infected with the various types that were left behind once before. I don't quite understand what thrill these types get from doing this, but if the purpose of being here is to talk Jays baseball, welcome. But if it is to agitate and ridicule other Jays fans, perhaps you should move along and form your own board of like types. This is going to be a very difficult year for actual fans of the Jays, and personally I like to read this board for information, not the ridicule that is creeping in.

No, actually I dont mind Wilner,if he is just calling the game. It is just those home run calls of his. Jays are down by five and a HR with no one on base sounds like they just won the WS. Trying too hard.