ElNik2013

4.1 fWAR in 116 games.

Boy Storen and Chavez didn't/haven't helped this team much. I know Hendriks hasn't been great, but he's been better than Chavez with years of control. Morales is s*** and should be DFA'ed ASAP. Apart from that, pen is fine. 2 runs isn't enough to win though, plenty of innings to score, just couldn't get much going all game. 2 of 3 from the O's is fine in my book.

I brought it up in the other thread as an offseason move for sure. This year though? Tough one but let's not forget that either Sanchez or Hutchison will be in the pen at some point. Hutchison is an unknown in the pen but I suspect his stuff plays up there.

Osuna provided 1.3 fWAR out of the pen last year and 1.6 thus far this season. As a comparison, Kevin Pillar and Devon Travis have combined to give the team about 11 fWAR over the same span. That's just an example, it doesn't mean that they will get guys PROJECTED to give you what Pillar and Travis have. I would definitely take a Clint Frazier plus a lesser prospect than Sheffield for Osuna.

BB suggested it first: http://www.bluebirdbanter.com/2016/7/29/12319162/off-day-gamethread-orioles-twins

Alright, I'd want a package of young players in return.

Because of the package they could get back.

I think Jays should consider trading Osuna during the off season. This was suggested by BB to be fair.

Did the Blue Jays give up nearly as much? Not sure, but who cares. Hopefully, Indians fans show up to support their team like Jays' fans have done since the Jays went for it.

I remember so many different trade targets being discussed here like Miller and Ackley from the Mariners and boom, the Jays get Travis. Heck of a trade.

So Travis has provided 4 fWAR in 110 games played so far as a Blue Jay which would put him at around 5 for 162 games. That was a really good trade and off season overall. Also, I think at the time, many would have preferred that the Blue Jays traded Pillar instead of Gose. If this is true to any significant extent, then you have to say keeping Pillar over Gose was also another coup. Pillar has provide over 7 fWAR over last season and the current one. Anywho.

Here's LaCava announcing Estrada's signing, I mean re-signing: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/gm-tony-lacava-announces-signing-of-pitcher-marco-estrada-1.3322768 Let's not forget that the Blue Jays acquired Estrada during a stellar 2014 offseason.

This is nothing to get worried about but the timing is questionable to say the least. Still meh though. If signing Happ was so good, does this now mean that those in the f/o that liked him since way back in his Phillies days were at least somewhat right? Was trading for Estrada also good since re-signing him was also good? I seem to remember many being against trading for Happ and for Estrada. What about trying to trade for a defensively-challenged player? Was picking up Carrera good or what? Basically, the Jays got Travis and Carrera for Anthony Gose. Also, I think most here would have rather traded Pillar than Gose at the time that trade happened. Phew, thankfully cooler heads prevailed. Biggest positive about Shapiro is that he's the president over Beeston and gets to set the vision for the franchise. The GM is tasked with making moves to fulfill the vision set out by the president. I'm pretty confident that Shapiro won't try to change the plan for his GM for his own legacy. On the other hand, that huge no-playoffs-since'93 monkey is off the franchise's back. Great attendance and ratings also help. Team is pretty f***ing good. Keep calm.

This franchise is crippled.

Prior to last year, the Blue Jays had not made major trades at the deadline for a long time. And the circumstances last year involved a team that hadn't made the playoffs since '93, a team prez who knew the team's owner was actively looking to replace him and who had run his mouth about making the playoffs and a GM with no contract beyond the end of the season. Team was also much better than its record indicated. This team doesn't have many holes that it needs to address so there isn't even a need to make any major acquisitions. Despite what others think, this franchise is in good shape. It has great attendance, great ratings, both worthy of one of the best teams in MLB which is what they are. Yes, Bautista and EE are FA to be but they'll either re-sign 1/2 of them or take the picks and look elsewhere to replace them since they would have $$ to spend. No, the sky isn't falling and the franchise wasn't crippled by the trades that were made since 2012 to try and contend as soon as possible. Anyway...

You're WC! And yes, it's been amazing. By the way, here's a video of some of Messi's Passing Genius:

I love Iniesta. However, to answer your question, no. Messi is the the guy. Messi isn't just a great goal-scorer, he is a great passer. I think he'll end up, if he isn't already, as the all time assists leader in La Liga and CL. Iniesta is definitely a magician with the ball and is great at building up play. I really hate to say anything that could be viewed as negative about him but he just isn't at Messi's level. I've always said that Messi is a combination of a great passer and goal-scorer. Anyway...

Oh and the Tigers let go of Carrera immediately after getting Gose and the Jays picked him up. So basically, the Jays kept Pillar and traded Gose for Travis and Carrera.

It's sort of like how so many were so eager to offer Melky a contract during the 2014 season and were freaking out because the team didn't make much of an effort to re-sign him and instead they traded Happ for Saunders. There are always options out there. But yeah, that off season was absolutely awesome. JD, Martin, Travis, Saunders, Estrada. Also, I was thinking the other day how terrible it was to have kept JPA over Gomes. However, keeping Pillar over Gose and getting Travis has been huge. Just goes to show, players emerge that weren't expected to. Who knows, maybe Pompey will get a chance to provide value on both defense and offense next year or even later on this year. Again, relax, the franchise isn't crippled like so many thought after the 2013 debacle.

Jays get JD: http://www.bluejaysmessageboard.com/threads/4133-Jays-get-Josh-Donaldson-for-Lawrie-Graveman-Nolin-and-Barreto/page6

I'm pretty sure all of Davis's home runs this series were off pitches low and outside yet they keep throwing that pitch to him.

Both Stroman and Dickey were left in the game too long. It cost them at least 2 runs yesterday and at least 1 today. In fairness, we know that there is no guarantee that Girodo would have gotten Shaw, but you at least give him and your team a margin for error by bringing him into a situation with runners at 1st and 2nd instead of the bases loaded. Anyway....

Odor definitely made an underhand throw to 1B trying for the double-play, you NEVER see that. I think it's safe to assume, given his history, that he tried to take Bautista's head off with the throw. The more you look at it, the more it does seem like it was Odor who was trying to hit Bautista in the face with the throw. Video evidence is pretty clear on this.

Here's Odor going Machado over a tag by Donaldson: http://m.mlb.com/video/v653616983/textor-barney-makes-catch-nabs-odor-at-third/?game_pk=447267 And no Bautista wasn't trying to injure Odor and Odor should know because he knows how to injure someone on a slide: So yes, he's a punk.

Thanks King. Good to see you wear a shirt now.