BTS

So there are Peter Angelos fanboys. Not sure why I'm surprised, but I am.

I'm legit surprised that Orioles fans are applauding as Peter Angelos further tarnishes his already s***** reputation. At least Jays fans have admitted that Ed Rogers acting like a jackass has in no way been a good thing.

These things always get worked out. Mike Scioscia is under contract for like 6 years, but if decided he wanted to leave to join the A's front office, Angels management would ask for big compensation, and in the end he'd go for like Sam Fuld or something.

Has a baseball executive ever been held to a contract he wanted out of?

Toronto also tried for Buchholz when the Red Sox tried to snipe Farrell. They got Mike Aviles.

Angelos' pettiness likely does extend far enough to try this. I really don't think it's a good thing though. He has a front office to worry about. If the working relationship has been damaged, and I imagine it has, everyone needs to move on.

Because people here are smart and I enjoy talking with them.

I'm willing to bet Duquette is gone within a year. Being denied the opportunity to interview elsewhere for a promotion, while at the same time being denied that same promotion with your current employer will not sit well.

Mods should probably just ban this guy now. Shame people have to act like children and can't discuss baseball with people who have a different favourite team.

It's just a very bad idea.

My post wasn't about Hoffman specifically, it was about his percieved value. Has anyone given up the equivalent of a recently drafted top-10 pick for a non-player?

Runners on 2nd and third in the 8th inning of a 1-1 game. Two out. Matt Joyce up. Manager pulls his righty starter to get his lefty specialist, who walks the hitter on 9 pitches. The game is now very much on the line and two right-handed hitters with big platoon splits are up. I'm sorry, but I don't want to watch a game where the manager can't use his 25-man roster in the best way possible and go get a right-handed reliever.

Has a non-player ever returned something as valuable as Hoffman?

I kind of like the idea of a Weeks/Kawasaki 2B platoon. Kawasaki can cover short if Reyes goes down too. Don't want Goins anywhere near the 25-man.

lmao

I looked into this, but he doesn't really have any more.

Meh. Orioles fans would be saying the same about us if they checked out the torontobluejays.com message boards or TSN/sportsnet comments sections.

This would be acceptable.

Yeah it does. For five months of the season and playoffs baseball is a strategic game played by two 25-man teams. For one month, baseball is a strategic game played by 30-35 man teams. 7-man bullpens and 4-man benches dictate bullpen uses and pinch hitting patterns for every game played, except for those played in September. It's dumn.

One change I'd love: no expanded rosters in September.

There were no winners here. Ed Rogers acted like an incompetent ass, while at the same time Angelos should have let Duquette take the raise/promotion. The alternative was offering Duquette the same role in Baltimore, but those jobs are reserved for Angelos and sons.

Everyone involved in this debacle should be ashamed of themselves.

You keep saying this, and people keep responding in the same way. fWAR is usually a good quick and dirty measure of what a player can bring to the table, but there is reason to believe that for catchers the number isn't of much use at all because it don't account for framing. Navarro in his career has been worth about 1 fWAR per 500 plate appearances. He's been better recently so his projection is going to be a bit better than that (Steamer has him at 1.4). He's a bad athlete with a league-average bat and no significant platoon split, so you don't want him anywhere but catcher (including DH). So without any reason to believe otherwise, you have what should be a ~1.4 win player in 2015. Now, there are four pretty good sources of information on pitch framing. They are as follows: Matt Carruth's statcorner has Navarro -8.2 runs per 8000 chances from 2007-2014 Mike Fast's study -6.1 runs/8000 from 2007-2011 BP's framing report -8.0 runs/8000 from 2008-2014 JFaS, who's exact numbers escape me, but thinks he's one of the worst framers in baseball So the best guess we have is that you take a ~1.4 win projection and cut about 8 runs off of it. So you have a player that you'd expect to provide you with about 0.5 wins over 500 plate appearances while earning $5 million. And it might be worse than that: Carruth had him at -20/8000 in 2014, BP had him at -11, and IIRC JFaS had him in the -20 range. Sure, there might be a team that A) needs a catcher and can add one at $5 million and thinks Navarro is worth giving up an actual asset for, but you're counting on incompetency from any possible trade partner in that case.

I think it's something like this right now: Hoyer Jocketty Antonetti Zaidi Dombrowski Beane Huntington Sabean Mozeliak a bunch of guys Zduriencik Moore Stewart Hart Amaro As things stand right now, I don't think you can convincingly argue AA out of the "bunch of guys" tier, in either direction.

I obviously understand this. I think it's important to give credit where credit is due, which I've done all offseason for the Martin, Donaldson, and Saunders moves. By the same token, I think poor roster depth is a pretty fair criticism - they really do give away large amounts of playing time to bad players, and I think this is something that is absolutely on the FO. They just haven't been good at stocking the bench with good players that have complementary skill sets. They've entered seasons with multiple replacement-level players on the 25-man from day 1, and it's been exacerbated by a typically weak crop of talent in the high minors ready to fill in.