2020 Rule changes

[glory]

This 3-batter minimum rule is retarded and does not address pace of play.

 

Of all the pitching changes that happened last year, this rule would have only affected 691 (once every 3 and a half games). The slash line on those pitching appearances was .393/.518/.657. These are not pitching changes that happened because the manager was playing matchups. They're pitching changes that happened because the pitcher was getting lit up. And very often in a high-leverage situation—the average leverage index for these appearances was 1.75 (with 1 being average). That's basically a late-game, runners-on-base, close-score leverage situation.

 

Managers are making these pitching changes to try to win games, not to play matchups in a clean inning.

 

It's a stupid rule.

 

I have no idea if those numbers are accurate or not, but yes it will shave time from games. Will it be every game? No but that’s not the objective. IBB don’t happen every game either but holding up 4 fingers and letting the batter go to first is better than having to throw 4 intentional balls. Having excessive pitching changes in an inning is dumb. If pitchers can’t get anyone out then of course take them out but chances are you’ll need more than one batter to know whether a RP is “on” anyway. If they come in with runners on base then the manager would have to evaluate which type of RP he needs out there rather than planning on lefty/righty matchups.

 

Small things in baseball can be changed every now and then without it being bad for the sport.

Edited February 14, 2020 by glory

[Brownie19]

Also curious where Beans got those numbers. Although my perception is that baseball has been generally going away from lefty/righty match ups over the past few years. I could totally be wrong, but now that everyone out of the pen throws 95+, it seems like the soft throwing LOOGY's have been kind of pushed aside. I mean the Jays haven't had a true LOOGY for awhile now (Mayza could get both sides out).

[Beans]

Where did you get those numbers from? That doesn't sound right.

 

Also curious where Beans got those numbers. Although my perception is that baseball has been generally going away from lefty/righty match ups over the past few years. I could totally be wrong, but now that everyone out of the pen throws 95+, it seems like the soft throwing LOOGY's have been kind of pushed aside. I mean the Jays haven't had a true LOOGY for awhile now (Mayza could get both sides out).

From an article in The Athletic https://theathletic.com/1555626/2020/01/23/the-new-3-batter-minimum-rule-wont-speed-up-games-but-will-have-negative-unintended-consequences/

 

"However, while there were 2,162 pitching appearances that lasted fewer than three batters in 2019, 1,471 of them concluded with the end of an inning or the end of the game. That leaves just 691 appearances that the three-batter minimum would have extended, and that’s before searching that sample for outings that ended in injury and thus also would have been exempt from the rule."

 

"Again, the vast majority of those 691 pitching changes were made for a reason, and that reason had far more to do with trying to win than it did with playing matchups. The real impact of the three-batter minimum will be forcing pitchers getting lit up to the tune of a .393/.518/.657 slash line to remain in high-leverage situations. That will alter the outcomes of games, and it could alter the outcome of the season."

[Beans]

I have no idea if those numbers are accurate or not, but yes it will shave time from games. Will it be every game? No but that’s not the objective. IBB don’t happen every game either but holding up 4 fingers and letting the batter go to first is better than having to throw 4 intentional balls. Having excessive pitching changes in an inning is dumb. If pitchers can’t get anyone out then of course take them out but chances are you’ll need more than one batter to know whether a RP is “on” anyway. If they come in with runners on base then the manager would have to evaluate which type of RP he needs out there rather than planning on lefty/righty matchups.

 

Small things in baseball can be changed every now and then without it being bad for the sport.

 

Have you looked into whether it will actually shave time from games?

 

The article I quoted above looked into it: "Over the course of the 2,429 major-league games played in 2019, those 691 pitching appearances work out to just one every 3 1/2 games. If, in every case, the new rule eliminated the mid-inning pitching change entirely, it would have made the average time of a major-league game in 2019 (drumroll, please) … 34 seconds shorter.

 

Thirty. Four. Seconds."

[Bobthe4th]

Have you looked into whether it will actually shave time from games?

 

The article I quoted above looked into it: "Over the course of the 2,429 major-league games played in 2019, those 691 pitching appearances work out to just one every 3 1/2 games. If, in every case, the new rule eliminated the mid-inning pitching change entirely, it would have made the average time of a major-league game in 2019 (drumroll, please) … 34 seconds shorter.

 

Thirty. Four. Seconds."

 

TBF that statistic is completely misleading. Obviously it doesn't impact games where there are no intentional walks, so an average figure for every game means nothing.

[Beans]

TBF that statistic is completely misleading. Obviously it doesn't impact games where there are no intentional walks, so an average figure for every game means nothing.

 

Yes, an average of anything means very little. It is, however, one of the metrics they're using to justify the rule change, so it's fair to point out the effect on the average.

 

To the relevant games themselves, they're saving two minutes in barely 40 games. Very underwhelming.

 

It's a stupid rule.

[Beans]

That article I linked earlier came out three weeks ago and was quickly picked up by a producer at MLB Network within a few days:

 

[Bobthe4th]

Yes, an average of anything means very little. It is, however, one of the metrics they're using to justify the rule change, so it's fair to point out the effect on the average.

 

To the relevant games themselves, they're saving two minutes in barely 40 games. Very underwhelming.

 

It's a stupid rule.

 

It really isn’t. What benefit is there to forcing the pitcher to pitch the intentional walk?

[Abomination]

Yes, an average of anything means very little. It is, however, one of the metrics they're using to justify the rule change, so it's fair to point out the effect on the average.

 

To the relevant games themselves, they're saving two minutes in barely 40 games. Very underwhelming.

 

It's a stupid rule.

 

I'm sure it has more to do with fan behaviour during those events than the actual time itself, regardless of what they say. They probably found that fans tend to flip channels or become otherwise disengaged when it happens.

 

I don't care about the intentional walk rule either way. I absolutely HATED seeing 3 or 4 pitcher changes in an inning with each guy facing one batter. Maybe it doesn't happen often, but it stands out when it does. It grinds the game to a halt.

[Beans]

It really isn’t. What benefit is there to forcing the pitcher to pitch the intentional walk?

I never once mentioned the intentional walk rule change of three years ago...

[Beans]

I'm sure it has more to do with fan behaviour during those events than the actual time itself, regardless of what they say. They probably found that fans tend to flip channels or become otherwise disengaged when it happens.

 

"A rule intended to save fans from enduring mid-inning pitching changes will only make them more desperate to see them."

 

I don't care about the intentional walk rule either way. I absolutely HATED seeing 3 or 4 pitcher changes in an inning with each guy facing one batter. Maybe it doesn't happen often, but it stands out when it does. It grinds the game to a halt.

What is going on here? I was not talking about the IBB rule change of 2017...

[Bobthe4th]

 

 

What is going on here? I was not talking about the IBB rule change of 2017...

 

My fault - intentional walks were mentioned by glory in the post you quoted when setting out the stats that I pointed out were useless!

[Brownie19]

That article I linked earlier came out three weeks ago and was quickly picked up by a producer at MLB Network within a few days:

 

 

Can I get clarification on what I'm reading? Is this saying that in 2019 there were 691 times that a relief pitcher was pulled from a game without facing at least 3 batters or finishing the inning? And in those 691 appearances, those pitchers got absolutely torched? Is that just suggesting that situational pitching changes don't work?

[Beans]

Can I get clarification on what I'm reading? Is this saying that in 2019 there were 691 times that a relief pitcher was pulled from a game without facing at least 3 batters or finishing the inning? And in those 691 appearances, those pitchers got absolutely torched? Is that just suggesting that situational pitching changes don't work?

 

They pulled it from this article in The Athletic https://theathletic.com/1555626/2020/01/23/the-new-3-batter-minimum-rule-wont-speed-up-games-but-will-have-negative-unintended-consequences/

 

"... there were 2,162 pitching appearances that lasted fewer than three batters in 2019, 1,471 of them concluded with the end of an inning or the end of the game. That leaves just 691 appearances that the three-batter minimum would have extended... The real impact of the three-batter minimum will be forcing pitchers getting lit up to the tune of a .393/.518/.657 slash line to remain in high-leverage situations. That will alter the outcomes of games, and it could alter the outcome of the season."

[z3r0s]

They pulled it from this article in The Athletic https://theathletic.com/1555626/2020/01/23/the-new-3-batter-minimum-rule-wont-speed-up-games-but-will-have-negative-unintended-consequences/

 

"... there were 2,162 pitching appearances that lasted fewer than three batters in 2019, 1,471 of them concluded with the end of an inning or the end of the game. That leaves just 691 appearances that the three-batter minimum would have extended... The real impact of the three-batter minimum will be forcing pitchers getting lit up to the tune of a .393/.518/.657 slash line to remain in high-leverage situations. That will alter the outcomes of games, and it could alter the outcome of the season."

 

This seems to me to be presumptuous. Doesn't this just tell us that gives GET pulled more often after giving up hits, not after getting outs.

That slash line may look better if you add an extra batter or two to each of those instance at a typical league average slash line.

[onwego]

I assume the MLB will eventually counter with anyone who can't finish through his three batters automatically has to be placed on the 10 or 15 day IL.

 

 

you can't tell the extent of an injury until the swelling has died down, tons of negative tests come back that were causing fear of a serious injury

[TheHurl]

Can I get clarification on what I'm reading? Is this saying that in 2019 there were 691 times that a relief pitcher was pulled from a game without facing at least 3 batters or finishing the inning? And in those 691 appearances, those pitchers got absolutely torched? Is that just suggesting that situational pitching changes don't work?

 

Many of those pitchers got pulled because they were hit.

[Spanky99]

Benefit, of the doughnut.

[Bobthe4th]

Small things in baseball can be changed every now and then without it being bad for the sport.

 

This is the most important point in this thread. When there's outrage about even the smallest change, it makes it more difficult for more significant changes like robo umps and a NL DH to be implemented.

[P2F]

Benefit, of the doughnut.

 

Amen, brother. QFT.

[Spanky99]

Amen, brother. QFT.

 

lol

[Spanky99]

This is the most important point in this thread. When there's outrage about even the smallest change, it makes it more difficult for more significant changes like robo umps and a NL DH to be implemented.

 

Nah.

[DigitalRock]

Pretty amazing that Selig would look good compared to the next commissioner., MLB has bungled so much this off season.