General 2019 Blue Jays Discussion Thread

[Dick_Pole]

But you're making it sound like Shapiro has a history of going big. Has he ever gone big? Maybe I'm forgetting something, but he was never really in a position to do that in Cleveland...so why do we just assume that he'll do it in Toronto? Fans questioning Rogers commitment and willingness to spend big isn't a new thing. Why are we just assuming that it's gonna happen with Shapiro. Until it actually happens, I'm going to remain skeptical. Hopefully we see some significant talent added when the time is right, but I'm not going to just assume that it's gonna happen.

 

Well, I haven't had a history of banging supermodels. That doesn't mean I should not try when the time is right (one of my stock picks explode, and I have money to throw around like a maniac).

[Dick_Pole]

Theres no way Rogers is ponying up that money.

 

They're already reluctant to pay for renovations to that dump they play in.

 

Rogers allowed a $160 million payroll at one point in time. What's it to them if the front office decides to spend ~$30M a year of that on one star free agent? If it's a decision point between $160 million and $200 million, then yeah I can see where that might be a bit more of a tough sell.

[BTS]

Rogers allowed a $160 million payroll at one point in time. What's it to them if the front office decides to spend ~$30M a year of that on one star free agent? If it's a decision point between $160 million and $200 million, then yeah I can see where that might be a bit more of a tough sell.

 

This is why I don't understand the people who say things like "Rogers will never pay for a top free agent". As far as I'm aware, Rogers would typically dictate total expenditures and let the particulars be dictated by baseball ops. We have to assume payroll will eventually be back in the 160 range, and the team can absolutely afford a 30M arm with a 160M payroll. Washington is in that payroll range right now and they're rostering three elite arms on free agent contracts. I don't think Rogers would be an impediment to signing Gerrit Cole.

[RobinThicc]

Rogers allowed a $160 million payroll at one point in time. What's it to them if the front office decides to spend ~$30M a year of that on one star free agent? If it's a decision point between $160 million and $200 million, then yeah I can see where that might be a bit more of a tough sell.

 

Im sure Rogers would be comfortable spending 160 million on payroll, im not sure if rogers would be comfortable spending that much on payroll + however much on stadium renovations.

 

Ill believe it when I see it.

[Krylian]

https://lethbridgeherald.com/business/2019/10/23/rogers-stock-plunges-after-financial-report-misses-q3-estimates-lowers-outlook/

 

Keep in mind that corporately, Rogers is struggling right now. This isn't going to motivate them to open the coffers.

[Beans]

https://lethbridgeherald.com/business/2019/10/23/rogers-stock-plunges-after-financial-report-misses-q3-estimates-lowers-outlook/

 

Keep in mind that corporately, Rogers is struggling right now. This isn't going to motivate them to open the coffers.

Not to mention that the Blue Jays lost money again for the third straight year.

 

https://www.forbes.com/mlb-valuations/list/#header:operatingIncome

https://www.statista.com/statistics/829623/toronto-blue-jays-operating-income/

 

And that number is before paying taxers, paying interest on debt, distributing dividends to investors, etc., so it's even more of a loss.

[Abomination]

Not to mention that the Blue Jays lost money again for the third straight year.

 

https://www.forbes.com/mlb-valuations/list/#header:operatingIncome

https://www.statista.com/statistics/829623/toronto-blue-jays-operating-income/

 

And that number is before paying taxers, paying interest on debt, distributing dividends to investors, etc., so it's even more of a loss.

 

It's just accounting nonsense, which they can do since they own the station and stadium as well as the team. They can fudge the numbers (within reason) so they don't have to pay as much revenue sharing. They have no debt, so no interest on debt. The team has no shareholders, Rogers does, so dividends do not come into play. I'm pretty sure operating income includes taxes.

[Bobthe4th]

It's just accounting nonsense, which they can do since they own the station and stadium as well as the team. They can fudge the numbers (within reason) so they don't have to pay as much revenue sharing. They have no debt, so no interest on debt. The team has no shareholders, Rogers does, so dividends do not come into play. I'm pretty sure operating income includes taxes.

 

Operating income doesn't include taxes.

 

Importantly though Rogers allocates significantly less than market value to the Jays for TV rights. If Rogers didn't own the team they'd have to pay much more. So you're right that it's not really accurate to just look at the high level figures and say the Jays are a loss maker for Rogers.

[Bobthe4th]

Probably $200M more lol.

 

Not per year no, but certainly more than $16m!

[Abomination]

It would be a bloodbath between Bell and Rogers for the TV rights. Canada has like 15M households which is about double the Dodgers. If you want to ignore Canada and keep it in the GTA it's still like 5-6M which is a top 5-ish market in North America.

 

It's probably something like $150M +. But definitely whatever they are putting down is a joke.

 

Canadian TV stations don't get anywhere near the dollar rate per eyeball that the US does. I'd guess it would be more in the $60 - $80M range, but that's still way the hell higher than they're paying now. Then there's things like stadium naming rights and stuff.

[TheHurl]

Not per year no, but certainly more than $16m!

 

I think it's $30M right now. Simplest way to calculate the value is take the NHL deal ($400M approximately per year) and divide it by six. It is completely unscientific way of figuring it out but probably as close as any other guess.

 

I've been saying it for years though. The valuation of the club is getting so big that if Rogers needs cash at any point it makes sense for them to sell the team and stadium and just openly bid on the TV rights.

[Key22]

Who do you suppose could or would buy the Jays and what sort of owner would you prefer? Shapiro says that they will spend once the core is in place...similar to Pat Gillick. If that's true then I can see 2022 as the year when this team should have a core to then go out and get some push us over the top talents as we did in 1993 and 1994 acquiring David Cone, Paul Molitor, Jack Morris etc. Jays had the highest payroll in baseball. Those were the days.

[Spanky99]

Who do you suppose could or would buy the Jays and what sort of owner would you prefer? Shapiro says that they will spend once the core is in place...similar to Pat Gillick. If that's true then I can see 2022 as the year when this team should have a core to then go out and get some push us over the top talents as we did in 1993 and 1994 acquiring David Cone, Paul Molitor, Jack Morris etc. Jays had the highest payroll in baseball. Those were the days.

 

92 and 93, not to mention those teams even prior were very good, so basically 87 through 93, the 85 team was pretty damn good. Yet, I digress, 91 through 93 were getting paid, IIRC. Labatt were a great ownership.

[Jimcanuck]

92 and 93, not to mention those teams even prior were very good, so basically 87 through 93, the 85 team was pretty damn good. Yet, I digress, 91 through 93 were getting paid, IIRC. Labatt were a great ownership.

 

every game was pretty much a sellout in those years

[Spanky99]

every game was pretty much a sellout in those years

 

Yeah, you win, fans show up, simple.

[Orgfiller]

every game was pretty much a sellout in those years

 

It was the same in the second half of 2015 and most of 2016, Toronto is historically an immense bandwagon city. They always show up when one of the big teams is doing well, and a subset the fans were loyal from the beginning.

[Bobthe4th]

It was the same in the second half of 2015 and most of 2016, Toronto is historically an immense bandwagon city. They always show up when one of the big teams is doing well, and a subset the fans were loyal from the beginning.

 

Haha, you say that like it's unusual. Most people don't want to regularly watch s*** teams in any sport.

[DigitalRock]

It was the same in the second half of 2015 and most of 2016, Toronto is historically an immense bandwagon city. They always show up when one of the big teams is doing well, and a subset the fans were loyal from the beginning.

 

This is the vast majority of cities/people, not just Toronto.

[Todd Van Anus]

Im sure Rogers would be comfortable spending 160 million on payroll, im not sure if rogers would be comfortable spending that much on payroll + however much on stadium renovations.

 

Ill believe it when I see it.

 

Especially since the Rogers infinite plans are now losing them money.

[Todd Van Anus]

This is the vast majority of cities/people, not just Toronto.

 

I disagree. From an outsiders perspective, Toronto is a very fickle and snobby city when it comes to professional sports.

[Orgfiller]

Haha, you say that like it's unusual. Most people don't want to regularly watch s*** teams in any sport.

 

I mean there's fanbases that support s*** teams, like New York fans with the Knicks, and Toronto fans with the Leafs.

[Thaddeus Malice]

I disagree. From an outsiders perspective, Toronto is a very fickle and snobby city when it comes to professional sports.

 

 

I don't know about that actually. The Raptors were awful for years and years and still managed to pull decent enough crowds even at their worst. I took a glance at the attendance numbers and they never finished in the bottom third of the league in attendance any year between 2000-2019. And there were some horrific seasons in there with Andrea Bargnani leading the team. Jays have definitely finished many times in that range.

 

It's a bandwagon town when it comes to baseball I think.

[Krylian]

Tony Bass is in.

 

The Dullard is out

[Bobthe4th]

I mean there's fanbases that support s*** teams, like New York fans with the Knicks, and Toronto fans with the Leafs.

 

Sure, and there are a few teams (like the Rays) that will never draw fans too. Those teams are rare exceptions though.

[TheHurl]

How in the f*** is Bass still Arb Eligible? Fun fact he's the only player drafted out of my school (can I call it Alumni when I dropped out?). Solid enough move.

[Todd Van Anus]

I don't know about that actually. The Raptors were awful for years and years and still managed to pull decent enough crowds even at their worst. I took a glance at the attendance numbers and they never finished in the bottom third of the league in attendance any year between 2000-2019. And there were some horrific seasons in there with Andrea Bargnani leading the team. Jays have definitely finished many times in that range.

 

It's a bandwagon town when it comes to baseball I think.

 

I'm thinking more along the lines of football. Toronto is very snobby towards the Argos.

[Todd Van Anus]

How in the f*** is Bass still Arb Eligible? Fun fact he's the only player drafted out of my school (can I call it Alumni when I dropped out?). Solid enough move.

 

Lance Bass from N' Sync?

[TheHurl]

Toronto millennials are fickle. They go to where ever the place to be is (BMO for a while and again a couple years ago, Jurassic Park...travelling to see games ). Toronto will always do better than average based on their 30 to 50 year old fanbase.

[Todd Van Anus]

Toronto millennials are fickle. They go to where ever the place to be is (BMO for a while and again a couple years ago, Jurassic Park...travelling to see games ). Toronto will always do better than average based on their 30 to 50 year old fanbase.

Yep, millenials are weird and marketing departments are really struggling with how to sell products to them. Just look at the most recent Subway commercial where they're travelling across the country to different Subway locations. Millenials eat that s*** up like toothpaste.

[Ex Player]

Just 103 more days

 

http://www.springtrainingcountdown.com/#sthash.EO6vJBbG.dpbs