General 2019 Blue Jays Discussion Thread

[Spanky99]

Easy... I'd take a Tommy Pham type bat.

[Spanky99]

IIRC, When he was claimed, the Jays got $50K as compensation, when he's returned, they Jays have to give back half of that. Last I remember hearing about this was a few years back, the numbers may have changed since then.

 

You're going to send him offside, lol.

[Bobthe4th]

If he clears waivers without any other teams claiming him he automatically come back to the Blue Jays along with $50,000.00.

 

We'll have the option of accepting him back by paying back the $50k we originally received for him. I don't see why we'd not accept him back though.

[Brownie19]

https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=bat&lg=all&qual=100&type=5&season=2019&month=0&season1=2019&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&startdate=2019-01-01&enddate=2019-12-31

 

Unfortunately, there are a lot of turds on the top 30 O-Swing leader board. That's even more unfortunately, seeing as Fisher is #26 on the list.

[KevinGregg]

Even though he’s been on the Giant’s 40 man? Either way we shouldn’t lose sleep over potentially losing him again.

 

the only thing that matters is if he's on a 40man roster at the end of the season (I forget when the exact cut off date is)

If he has enough time as a professional (we know he does) and he's not on a 40 man roster on the cutoff date then he is eligible for the draft regardless of what has happened in the past

[KevinGregg]

Didn't see this posted yet:

Meet the Inspiration behind Vladimir Guerrero Jr. and Sr.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6okMS18fQCg

[EastCoaster]

We'll have the option of accepting him back by paying back the $50k we originally received for him. I don't see why we'd not accept him back though.

 

No he comeback automatically if he clears waivers. The Blue Jays received $100,000.00 for his selection from Giants if he's return the Giants get half of their money back $50,000.00. Then Bergen goes back status quo left unprotected off the 40 man roster.

[EastCoaster]

IIRC, When he was claimed, the Jays got $50K as compensation, when he's returned, they Jays have to give back half of that. Last I remember hearing about this was a few years back, the numbers may have changed since then.

 

They Jays got $100,000.00 for his selection if he's return the Giants are entitled to get half their money back $50,000.00 then Jays keeps the other $50,000.00.

[Spanky99]

Didn't see this posted yet:

Meet the Inspiration behind Vladimir Guerrero Jr. and Sr.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6okMS18fQCg

 

Damn, that was good, at first I thought it was just going to be about cooking, lol. Vladito is twice the size as his dad at this age.

[Bobthe4th]

No he comeback automatically if he clears waivers. The Blue Jays received $100,000.00 for his selection from Giants if he's return the Giants get half of their money back $50,000.00. Then Bergen goes back status quo left unprotected off the 40 man roster.

 

I don't think this is correct. According to MLB he only has to be offered back, not that the original team has to accept him:

 

What is a rule 5 draft?

 

"Rule 5 Draft picks are assigned directly to the drafting club's 25-man roster and must be placed on outright waivers in order to be removed from the 25-man roster in the subsequent season. Should the player clear waivers, he must be offered back to his previous team for $50,000 and can be outrighted to the Minors only if his original club does not wish to reacquire him. "

[Deadpool]

They Jays got $100,000.00 for his selection if he's return the Giants are entitled to get half their money back $50,000.00 then Jays keeps the other $50,000.00.

 

Last time I paid any attention to the numbers it was $50K/$25K, but it stands to reason that they've raised those numbers since then.

[Spanky99]

Last time I paid any attention to the numbers it was $50K/$25K, but it stands to reason that they've raised those numbers since then.

 

Yup, at the last CBA.

[EastCoaster]

I don't think this is correct. According to MLB he only has to be offered back, not that the original team has to accept him:

 

What is a rule 5 draft?

 

"Rule 5 Draft picks are assigned directly to the drafting club's 25-man roster and must be placed on outright waivers in order to be removed from the 25-man roster in the subsequent season. Should the player clear waivers, he must be offered back to his previous team for $50,000 and can be outrighted to the Minors only if his original club does not wish to reacquire him. "

 

The both line is that if he goes unclaimed the Blue Jays decide his future nobody else so basically he's become the Blue Jays property till they make a decision on him and that the context of meaning that he automatically return the Blue Jays they decide his future nothing can happen without the Blue Jays involvement once he clears waivers.

[Spanky99]

The both line is that if he goes unclaimed the Blue Jays decide his future nobody else so basically he's become the Blue Jays property till they make a decision on him and that the context of meaning that he automatically return the Blue Jays they decide his future nothing can happen without the Blue Jays involvement once he clears waivers.

 

He's telling you he doesn't have to "clear waivers", there's no part in this process, he's already been returned to the Jays org.

[EastCoaster]

He's telling you he doesn't have to "clear waivers", there's no part in this process, he's already been returned to the Jays org.

 

The rule clearly state in order to remove a rule 5 player from a team 25 man roster he has to put on outright waivers.

 

Rule 5 Draft picks are assigned directly to the drafting club's 25-man roster and must be placed on outright waivers in order to be removed from the 25-man roster in the subsequent season. Should the player clear waivers, he must be offered back to his previous team for $50,000.

[Spanky99]

The rule clearly state in order to remove a rule 5 player from a team 25 man roster he has to put on outright waivers.

 

Rule 5 Draft picks are assigned directly to the drafting club's 25-man roster and must be placed on outright waivers in order to be removed from the 25-man roster in the subsequent season. Should the player clear waivers, he must be offered back to his previous team for $50,000.

 

Where's this rule, can you present a link, please. He was placed immediately on our squad as returned.

 

https://www.fangraphs.com/roster-resource/depth-charts/blue-jays

[EastCoaster]

Where's this rule, can you present a link, please. He was placed immediately on our squad as returned.

 

https://www.fangraphs.com/roster-resource/depth-charts/blue-jays

 

Here's the best one with simplest explanation how the rule 5 works.

 

https://www.si.com/mlb/2018/12/13/rule-5-draft-explained-major-league-baseball

[Spanky99]

Here's the best one with simplest explanation how the rule 5 works.

 

https://www.si.com/mlb/2018/12/13/rule-5-draft-explained-major-league-baseball

 

Thanks, it never matters, regardless.

[Barkerfan23]

its time to accept the fact that Vladdy is just not the body type to play 3rd. I mean who are we making the room for anyways an even fatter Tellez.

 

I rather have a 150 WRC first baseman year in and year out, then see him tear his achillies trying to track down a ground ball in the hole. Its just not going to happen. I am fine with Drury at third next year with Biggio and Bichette playing the middle infields. Nothing wrong with that. We should then get a veteran masher like Cruz or EE to DH

 

Essentially giving you a lineup that includes Bichette, Biggio, Vlad, Cruz/EE, Gurriel, and a bottom of the order that includes Jansen, Drury and Grichuk. You can then even have a really good defensive Center Fielder. This is a lineup you could compete with. We would be miles apart from competing on the pitching side but this is a lineup that could be top 5 in the majors.

 

Since I am dreaming on the pitching side, we need to get lucky with one of the starters. The 26 guys or so less Pearson, one of them needs to emerge as a middle of the rotation starter. We also need to hit on Pearson as a number two. Then conceivably, you can go to market and get another top starter and bottom of the rotation starter (Though you may have names pan out.) Prospects like Groshans, Pardinho, the catcher in Lansing should be in play to net us another starter. Its hard to imagine who it will be, but it has to be a front line starter, similar to what the Redsox did by acquiring Sale

 

Then you have a team again, that will compete for post season, assuming a good job is done filling out the bullpen.

[Barkerfan23]

Too bad this front office cant keep a relationship with anybody, but how good would it have been to bring back the bringer of rain at 3rd. He is showing in Atlanta he still has a few years. He is an FA in the offseason, but probably wouldn't even consider coming back.

[Deadpool]

its time to accept the fact that Vladdy is just not the body type to play 3rd. I mean who are we making the room for anyways an even fatter Tellez.

 

I rather have a 150 WRC first baseman year in and year out, then see him tear his achillies trying to track down a ground ball in the hole. Its just not going to happen. I am fine with Drury at third next year with Biggio and Bichette playing the middle infields. Nothing wrong with that. We should then get a veteran masher like Cruz or EE to DH

 

Essentially giving you a lineup that includes Bichette, Biggio, Vlad, Cruz/EE, Gurriel, and a bottom of the order that includes Jansen, Drury and Grichuk. You can then even have a really good defensive Center Fielder. This is a lineup you could compete with. We would be miles apart from competing on the pitching side but this is a lineup that could be top 5 in the majors.

 

Since I am dreaming on the pitching side, we need to get lucky with one of the starters. The 26 guys or so less Pearson, one of them needs to emerge as a middle of the rotation starter. We also need to hit on Pearson as a number two. Then conceivably, you can go to market and get another top starter and bottom of the rotation starter (Though you may have names pan out.) Prospects like Groshans, Pardinho, the catcher in Lansing should be in play to net us another starter. Its hard to imagine who it will be, but it has to be a front line starter, similar to what the Redsox did by acquiring Sale

 

Then you have a team again, that will compete for post season, assuming a good job is done filling out the bullpen.

 

You're setting yourself up for disappointment by hoping for a Vladdy move to 1st. It's not going to happen this season, it's not going to happen next season, and likely won't happen for a few more seasons after that.

[Ex Player]

Manoah lighting up the radar gun at 100 clicks/hr:

 

https://torontosun.com/sports/baseball/toronto-blue-jays/throwin-manoah-blue-jays-top-draft-pick-fueled-to-bring-the-heat

 

Blue Jays' top draft pick fuelled to bring the heat

 

Alek Manoah has just emerged from the Canadians clubhouse here at the baseball treasure that is Scotiabank Field at Nat Bailey Stadium, and the big kid is a fountain of Blue Jays information.

 

The hard-throwing pitcher, whom the team drafted in the first round of the MLB draft this spring, is well aware of what’s going on with the parent club and can’t wait to be a part of it.

 

He cites their record in recent games, raves about the young core of rookies lighting it up at the plate and is hyper-enthused at the idea of joining in on the fun.

 

“This is our time,” declares Manoah, a monster of a 21-year-old with hands almost big enough to grip two baseballs, as we chat outside the dugout of Canada’s only minor pro baseball team. “That’s how I see it. (The Jays) are getting rid of the old wave. They have the hitters now and they’re trying to develop us as pitchers.

 

“I think trading away Marcus Stroman and Aaron Sanchez, I think that’s management saying to us: ‘We picked you for a reason.’ ”

 

In Manoah, there are many of them, actually.

 

The strapping 6-foot-6, 260-pound right-hander emerged as one of the top NCAA pitchers in 2019. In his junior season with the Mountaineers, Manoah was the Big 12 pitcher of the year, finishing with a 2.08 ERA over 16 starts and a fireballing 144 strikeouts in 108.1 innings of work.

 

Like scouts throughout baseball, the Jays were wooed by his power, of course, but also his maturity and his drive.

 

And with a solid three-year college career as a base, there’s always the chance Manoah could accelerate fast enough to accentuate the young Toronto roster that is creating such buzz around baseball.

 

“Golden arm,” is how Canadians manager Casey Candaele describes Manoah, who has allowed just two earned runs in his five professional appearances thus far. “He’s a competitor. He likes to get on the mound and throw and get after people. When you have that and you’re driven to get better, that’s an impressive combination.”

 

Manoah’s time here in the Northwest League is essentially designed to dip his toes — and that lethal right arm — into the world of professional baseball. The short-season A-level loop is a perfect landing spot that way, especially for college draftees with a full NCAA season behind them.

 

By design, the Jays are strictly limiting him to two innings or so an outing. In his nine innings of work thus far, he’s allowed those two runs — and none in his first four appearances — plus an impressive 14 strikeouts. If all goes well in the off-season and through spring training, this figures to be a launching pad to a higher level of minor ball in 2020.

 

Like Marcus Stroman, Aaron Sanchez, Ryan Borucki and so many others before him, it’s a great spot to begin throwing for the Jays organization. The city has an affinity for the C’s, the fans fill the park and, for the players, it’s an early introduction to the world of Loonies and Toonies, poutine and ketchup chips.

 

The sell-out crowd was certainly enthused at Manoah’s most recent start at this gem of a minor-league park back on Aug. 8. With his size and strength, the power came as advertised when, for the first time in his career, Manoah lit up the radar with a 100-mph fastball.

 

The fans noticed when “00” flashed on the centre-field scoreboard, quaintly constructed with just two digits. If it got Jays fans excited as well, it was with good reason. The previous Canadians pitcher to hit triple-digits at the Nat was none other than Nate Pearson back in 2017 when he was getting a similar introduction to Canada, pro ball and the Blue Jays way of developing prospects.

 

“It felt pretty great,” Manoah said with a wide grin at joining elite heat company. “There’s more to it than throwing hard and I’m spending a lot of time developing all of my pitches, but it was still pretty cool.”

 

The fastball is lethal, impressive and such a big art of today’s power-pitching world of pro ball. The Jays are certainly loading up with young arms to fit that prototype. What has impressed Candaele about both Manoah and Pearson (whom he managed at single-A Dunedin last season), however, is that each are committed to being about much more than just raw strength.

 

“He likes to use all of his pitches,” the former Expo said of Manoah. “You could get caught up in coming here and just trying to blow fastballs past people, but he likes to pitch, too.”

 

Candaele recalls an example of a recent game in which Manoah struggled through an inning of 20-plus pitches. Mildly frustrated that he’s on a strict pitch count, Manoah wanted to mix sliders and change-ups into his attack to get some development work in.

 

After a between-innings chat from Candaele and pitching coach Demetre Kokoris wondering what was up, Manoah went out and blew fastballs past the opposition in a nine-pitch frame.

 

“He’s probably going to be a pitcher who will rely on his fastball to be successful but he likes working on his change-up and his slider has got a good sharp break to it,” Candaele said. “He’s been here developing his stuff and getting used to the pro game.”

 

So far, anyway, it seems like Manoah and the Jays are a good match. Obviously, the pitcher appreciates the opportunity with a rotation that is ready and waiting with vacancies.

 

But the Florida native also likes the team’s approach to not pigeon-holing him into a set itinerary to get to the bigs.

 

“A lot of teams, when you get drafted, they have a blueprint for what they want you to follow, of how you are going to develop under them,” Manoah said. “The Blue Jays are more like, ‘We’re going to make your own routine. It’s not going to be a blueprint. It’s going to be original.’

 

“Them investing time with their high-performance team and all that they do in player development, that was one of the biggest things for me. Getting into an organization that didn’t want to change everything I’ve worked so hard on to get to this point. The way they look at it is, ‘Let’s see what you have, see how it transitions to pro ball,’ and then refine and adjust.”

 

Already, the Jays have a fair bit invested in Manoah, notably a hefty $4.55 million US signing bonus, slot money for going 11th overall in the draft. Manoah can thank a wise move he made as a high-school senior for such a bulky first career payday.

 

Prior to heading to college, the Texas Rangers made an overture to draft him in the fifth round. Manoah felt he needed more time to develop and that college would afford him the ability to maximize his talents.

 

“I took a bet on myself,” Manoah said. “I knew I wasn’t a fifth-round pick, quite frankly. I knew I was better than that. But my goal wasn’t to get drafted. My goal was to get to the big leagues and stay in the big leagues for a long while.

 

“I took a chance on myself because I trusted myself. I signed (with the Jays) for a lot more than what I got offered in high school, but it’s not even the money part. I would have been happy with whatever money I got, but if I was drafted then, I probably would have been released by now. I wasn’t ready.

 

“In college I had two years where I had a chance to figure myself out as a person and as a player and learn from the good and the bad. There’s going to be more adversity thrown at me, but I’m ready for it.”

 

There is a healthy impatience to Manoah — perhaps, more accurately, we should call it the drive to get to the big leagues as swiftly as feasible. But he also recognizes the other forces at play.

 

“For us young pitchers, it’s extremely exciting,” Manoah said. “For an organization to show we are the future, obviously, they are showing trust in us.

 

“At the same time, we all believe (management) knows what they are doing. I’m sure (Pearson) could pitch in the big leagues right now. The biggest thing for the organization is making sure that when he gets there, he’s a 10-time all-star as he should be.

 

“It’s all with due time and making sure we are on the right path. We understand it all. When you combine the hitting with the pitching that’s coming, (the Jays) are going to evolve into a really good ball club.

 

“When we all get up there, it’s going to be something special to see.”

[Barkerfan23]

You're setting yourself up for disappointment by hoping for a Vladdy move to 1st. It's not going to happen this season, it's not going to happen next season, and likely won't happen for a few more seasons after that.

 

Well then the front office is probably going to have an elite player with Shot knees

 

I just dont think at his weight, his knees will be able to take the impact. Even at his age.

[Rusty_Savage]

You're setting yourself up for disappointment by hoping for a Vladdy move to 1st. It's not going to happen this season, it's not going to happen next season, and likely won't happen for a few more seasons after that.

 

Probably not until Austin Martin is ready

[Rusty_Savage]

Too bad this front office cant keep a relationship with anybody, but how good would it have been to bring back the bringer of rain at 3rd. He is showing in Atlanta he still has a few years. He is an FA in the offseason, but probably wouldn't even consider coming back.

 

And yet you want them to piss off their 19 year old franchise player by moving him off a position he very clearly thinks he can play.

[BTS]

Man, Vladdy is up to -4.4 runs of UBR and -8.8 UZR. 1.3 fWAR of negative value from baserunning and fielding at 20 years old. His weight is a major, major problem that looks like it's going to cost him significant value over the course of his career if its not addressed. He actually has a very good and accurate arm, but his range might be the worst in baseball for a regular 3b.

[Todd Van Anus]

Man, Vladdy is up to -4.4 runs of UBR and -8.8 UZR. 1.3 fWAR of negative value from baserunning and fielding at 20 years old. His weight is a major, major problem that looks like it's going to cost him significant value over the course of his career if its not addressed. He actually has a very good and accurate arm, but his range might be the worst in baseball for a regular 3b.

 

We all know Vladdy will eventually be moved to first base.

[Deadpool]

We all know Vladdy will eventually be moved to first base.

 

Yep, in his late 20s or early 30s. They're not moving him any time soon.

[Todd Van Anus]

Yep, in his late 20s or early 30s. They're not moving him any time soon.

 

We can agree to disagree then. I see first base as his primary position within 1-2 seasons.

[Orgfiller]

Yep, in his late 20s or early 30s. They're not moving him any time soon.

 

Late 20s is extremely optimistic and early 30s is just flat out misguided. He's awful right now, and guys like Pujols and Miguel Cabrera were moved full time to first base when they were 24 and 25 respectively, and both of those guys were substantially more athletic and in better shape earlier in their careers than Vlad Jr. currently is.

 

At this rate Vladdy will be a full-time 1B when he's 22 or 23, and one could argue that if he doesn't lose a significant amount of weight this offseason that the transition should begin this next Spring Training.