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Posted

 

Yikes Richard being guaranteed a spot...

 

I also feel that way about Sanchez

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Posted (edited)

 

Yikes Richard being guaranteed a spot...

 

That is such BS. I understand not just handing Borucki the spot. However, he pitched better than every single one of those guys last year. Not for just a month either.

 

No respect..,

Edited by Carlos Danger
Posted
That is such BS. I understand not just handing Borucki the spot. However, he pitched better than every single one of those guys last year. No for just a month either.

 

No respect..,

 

Does it buy us anything to have Borucki start in AAA? Aside from that I can't see any reason for this. Bottoming out works in some sports but Baseball typically isn't one of those...unless there is some kind of generational phenom that's draft eligible in 2020, which I'm not familiar with.

Community Moderator
Posted
That is such BS. I understand not just handing Borucki the spot. However, he pitched better than every single one of those guys last year. No for just a month either.

 

No respect..,

 

Does it buy us anything to have Borucki start in AAA? Aside from that I can't see any reason for this. Bottoming out works in some sports but Baseball typically isn't one of those...unless there is some kind of generational phenom that's draft eligible in 2020, which I'm not familiar with.

 

I don't really see the issue here. Stro, Shoe, and Sanchez have spots locked up. No controversy there. Richard will get a spot unless he's terrible all spring, in which case he won't. Borucki will get a spot unless Gaviglio, Thornton, or Paulino look markedly better in spring, in which case he'll be up in April when someone's arm falls off. No team goes into camp saying that they have 0 rotation spots available.

Posted (edited)
I don't really see the issue here. Stro, Shoe, and Sanchez have spots locked up. No controversy there. Richard will get a spot unless he's terrible all spring, in which case he won't. Borucki will get a spot unless Gaviglio, Thornton, or Paulino look markedly better in spring, in which case he'll be up in April when someone's arm falls off. No team goes into camp saying that they have 0 rotation spots available.

 

The Blue Jays are not saying they have zero rotation spots available. They are saying pitchers who pitched like s*** last year or are coming off injury are guaranteed spots over our best SP of last year. Consistently and over enough games of not just September baseball.

 

That is my issue..

Edited by Carlos Danger
Community Moderator
Posted
The Blue Jays are not saying they have zero rotation spots available. They are saying pitchers who pitched like s*** last year or are coming off injury are guaranteed spots over our best SP of last year. Consistently and over enough games off not just September baseball.

 

That is my issue..

 

You're angry about this like 6 weeks too early.

Posted
You're angry about this like 6 weeks too early.

 

I would have been ok if they said that Stroman and Sanchez are guaranteed spots and all others have to earn it.. I am ok with that statement, even though in reality, Sanchez hasn't pitched well for two years... And Stroman had a rough, rough year last year.

Posted
I don't really see the issue here. Stro, Shoe, and Sanchez have spots locked up. No controversy there. Richard will get a spot unless he's terrible all spring, in which case he won't. Borucki will get a spot unless Gaviglio, Thornton, or Paulino look markedly better in spring, in which case he'll be up in April when someone's arm falls off. No team goes into camp saying that they have 0 rotation spots available.

 

Is it confirmed Paulino will be competing for a rotation spot?

Posted
Why isn't Ellsbury on the Jays, we have the payroll room and could take plenty of prospects from the Yankees to eat his contract.
Posted
Why isn't Ellsbury on the Jays, we have the payroll room and could take plenty of prospects from the Yankees to eat his contract.

 

If we want a $20M OF, I'd rather we use those funds towards signing Harper than getting Ellsbury for prospects who we hope end up providing the value that Harper does.

Posted

Ellsbury has a no trade. He's likely perfectly happy to be a bench player and take home $21M for the next two years before retiring.

 

Of course, if he waives the no trade, the Jays should be trying to do exactly as tercet suggests.

Posted
MLB Baseball has unfortunately turned into strictly an asset management league. Half the fan base already knows that they don't even have a shot in the dark before the season even starts. Sad..
Posted
MLB Baseball has unfortunately turned into strictly an asset management league. Half the fan base already knows that they don't even have a shot in the dark before the season even starts. Sad..

 

I dont think that is true. If a team can get to .500 anything is possible. A couple teams dont have a shot at all but the vast majority do

Posted

 

Big article

 

The​ photos.​ Rays​ general​ manager​ Erik​ Neander kept​ getting texts​ with​ the photos, accompanied​ by​ a grave warning of​ a potential​​ coup d’etat.

 

Charlie Montoyo would be shown talking with team president Matt Silverman, unaware his friend, foil and fellow Rays coach, Rocco Baldelli, would accuse him of sinister political motives.

 

“Charlie’s trying to work his way up,” Baldelli would relay to Neander, in mock outrage.

 

Undaunted, Montoyo would stage his own mirthful disinformation campaign, referencing Baldelli’s four years in the front office as he sounded the alarm to manager Kevin Cash.

 

“Rocco is backstabbing you,” Montoyo would tell Cash. “He’s tight with ownership. You’re just keeping the seat warm until he is ready and the young talent starts coming.”

 

And so it went last season, each friend trying to out-prank the other.

 

“A picture would be taken, a video would be made, a song would be put to it that somebody was angling for a job,” Rays third base coach Matt Quatraro says. “It literally never stopped.”

 

The ribbing, the scheming, the finger-pointing, the fun — it’s all over now, at least as the Rays knew it the past four seasons with Baldelli and Montoyo as members of their coaching staff.

 

Baldelli, 37, and Montoyo, 53, were the Rays’ version of “The Odd Couple,” men of different ages and different backgrounds and different baseball experiences who forged an unlikely but lasting bond.

 

Neither sought nor expected to become first-time major-league managers in 2019. But little did either of them know, all of their talk about becoming a manager would prove no joke.

 

Baldelli took over the Twins and Montoyo the Blue Jays on the same day — Oct. 25, 2018. Their surprising, simultaneous ascents delighted those in the game who knew them, particularly those with the Rays who relished the rollicking clubhouse environment they helped create.

 

Rival clubs regard the Rays as deep thinkers, fearless innovators who will seek any edge while trying to overcome their plight as one of the game’s lowest-revenue teams. But as the Rays introduce concepts such as “The Opener,” their clubhouse remains perhaps the loosest in baseball, and not simply because most of their players are young.

 

The Rays’ unconventional approach began with Joe Maddon, who managed the team from 2006 to ’14, bringing guest speakers, entertainers and animals into the clubhouse and introducing themed road trips in which staff and players dressed up in unusual fashion.

 

Cash, who succeeded Maddon after serving two seasons as the Indians’ bullpen coach, is like the naughty stepchild of Indians manager Terry Francona, 41 going on 14.

 

“He is developing mentally and emotionally in some ways along the lines of Benjamin Button,” Neander says of Cash, referring to the fictional F. Scott Fitzgerald creation and movie character who aged in reverse. “His sense of humor gets younger and less mature by the year.”

 

Or, as Baldelli puts it, “At times, he likes to act like a kid. And he wants everyone else to do the same … to sink to his level of childish behavior.”

 

The feigned outrage Baldelli and Montoyo showed while accusing each other of hatching managerial plots last season was typical of the staff’s hijinks. At times, the two coaches would make other staff members co-conspirators. At other times, they would make them targets.

 

“The more people they could drag into it, the better it was for them,” Quatraro says. “Then they could point the finger. ‘It wasn’t me. It was somebody else.’”

 

Chris “Chico” Fernandez, the Rays’ video coordinator, compares Baldelli and Montoyo to Statler and Waldorf, the ornery Muppets characters who would heckle and jeer the rest of the cast from the balcony.

 

Quatraro, who was the Indians’ assistant hitting coach from 2014-17 before rejoining the Rays, the team he previously served 17 years as a minor-league coach and manager, could not catch a break.

 

Heaven forbid Quatraro speak with his former bosses — Indians executives Chris Antonetti and Mike Chernoff in Cleveland, or worse, former Indians executives Mark Shapiro and Ross Atkins in Toronto, where manager John Gibbons was in the final year of his contract.

 

The photos and texts to Quatraro — You’re going to be next. Gibbons is out — followed in rapid order, as did a Blue Jays media guide strategically placed inside his locker.

 

Baldelli and Montoyo, though, spent most of their time prodding one another, bantering over which managerial jobs might open, dropping real-estate pamphlets on each other if they were in a city where a change was possible. Montoyo even would plead with baseball writers to promote Baldelli as the next hot managerial candidate, knowing it would bother the younger coach.

 

On and on they would go, and not just about managing. From Baldelli’s attire to Montoyo’s frugality, no topic was off limits.

 

“I’ve never heard two people give each other more s— and be such good friends,” Neander says.

 

They come almost from different worlds.

 

Baldelli, a native of Woonsocket, R.I., received a $2.25 million signing bonus when the Rays made him the sixth overall pick of the 2000 draft, then earned nearly $6.5 million in the majors, according to baseball-reference.com.

 

Montoyo, a native of Manati, Puerto Rico, played 10 seasons in the minors, making his only five major-league plate appearances with the Expos in 1993. He then spent 19 years managing in the Rays’ system, earning $28,000 at his first rookie-level job in Princeton, W.Va., and $80,000 in the last of his eight seasons at Triple-A Durham (N.C.).

 

The two first met at Single-A Bakersfield (Calif.) in 2002 at the start of Baldelli’s final minor-league season. Montoyo was a 36-year-old manager, Baldelli a hot 20-year-old prospect. One day, with Bakersfield winning big at Visalia, Baldelli bunted for a hit to lead off an inning. Montoyo, fearing Visalia would retaliate, pulled Baldelli from the game. Another Bakersfield player got plunked instead.

 

Baldelli appreciated the way Montoyo cared for him and his teammates, helping make the most of a difficult situation in Bakersfield, where the attendance was low and the weather hot. Their paths diverged when Baldelli rocketed to the majors, but they reconnected each year in spring training, then reunited briefly at Durham in 2010 when Baldelli attempted one last comeback from mitochondrial disease, a rare muscular disorder that forced him to retire after that season at 29.

 

After that, they grew even closer.

 

Baldelli remained in the Rays’ organization as a special adviser in scouting and player development, visiting Montoyo periodically on his tours of the team’s affiliates. The Rays then united them on Cash’s staff in 2015, naming Baldelli first-base coach and Montoyo third-base coach (Baldelli moved on to major-league field coordinator and Montoyo to bench coach in ’18).

 

The two became running partners at home and on the road, reviewing the previous night’s game, looking ahead to the next one, hitting a variety of other topics. Politics occasionally were part of their discussions — Baldelli and Montoyo are among the rare liberals in baseball — and even as they ran they would jab one another, adhering to only one standard: anything goes.

 

Baldelli never was much of a runner even when he was young, but he generally is limited to 2-2 1/2 miles because of his condition. Montoyo would make him fun of that — yes, even though Baldelli was physically incapable of more. Baldelli, in turn, would make fun of Montoyo for his slow pace.

 

Former major-league pitcher Jeremy Sowers, the Rays’ major-league operations coordinator, became the third wheel on the runs in 2016, ganging up with Montoyo to tease Baldelli or Baldelli to tease Montoyo — and of course, occasionally catching grief himself.

 

One day during a heat wave in Minnesota, Sowers had to stop because he was not fully recovered from an illness, and Montoyo rode him about it for the rest of that season, claiming superior endurance over a colleague 18 years younger. Another time in Miami, while running on the concourse at Marlins Park, Montoyo was getting on Baldelli about one thing or another when suddenly Baldelli took off in a full sprint, reaching a gear Sowers imagined only an Olympian might have. Message sent, without Baldelli saying a word.

 

As the Rays’ video replay monitor, Sowers had access to images from all of the different camera angles in the ballpark. If a coach had his eyes closed on the bench or was in some other compromising position, Sowers would take a photo and circulate it among the staff for fodder.

 

Initially after joining the Rays, Sowers thought the coaches were incredibly mean to one another. He quickly came to learn they simply were comfortable with each other, and perhaps more important, comfortable in their own skins.

 

“You had to be, or you were going to get abused for it,” Sowers says. “That incredible amount of humility on all sides made it a really good environment to basically, for lack of a better way to describe it, rip on people for just any sort of mundane detail.”

 

No detail, in fact, was too small.

 

Cash, upon completing his interview for this story, had only one request: “Whatever you do, make sure you bury Rocco the most.”

 

Baldelli would hear it for the size of his nose, his baldness and of course, for his sin of previously working in the front office.

 

Montoyo and others jokingly would call him a “mole” and react to player moves by saying, “Of course you know already, Rocco. No one knew but you.”

 

Baldelli, however, stood out for other reasons as well.

 

“Rocco is easily picked on because he doesn’t conform to most norms,” Quartraro says. “He doesn’t fit the mold of what a typical person in the industry is.”

 

Baldelli’s tastes range from horse breeding to jam bands such as Phish, fancy coffee to, ahem, natural deodorant. But his biggest offense, in the eyes of Cash, Montoyo and the other coaches, is the way he dresses.

 

As Cash puts it, “he gets on the plane like he just walked out of a Grateful Dead concert.”

 

“I was basically looked at and named the worst-dressed staff member in baseball,” says Baldelli, who has yet to announce a dress code for the Twins. “I guess I’m OK with that.”

 

Is the criticism fair?

 

“They would all agree on it,” Baldelli continues. “So who am I to stand in the way of an entire staff of people and their opinions?”

 

For the past eight or nine years, Baldelli has owned one particular pair of brown shorts that resemble UPS shorts. He would wear those to the field and someone would grab them out of his locker and hang them up for all to see. His Birkenstocks often would be treated with similar scorn, tossed around and displayed.

 

Montoyo, in contrast, is a snazzy dresser, not that Baldelli was impressed. If Montoyo wore an all-gray ensemble, Baldelli would sniff that he looked like the Tin Man. If Montoyo went all-black, Baldelli would hiss, “Johnny Cash.”

 

“Really, dude,” Montoyo would say, “You’re going to make fun of me?”

 

Montoyo, though, had his own particular vulnerability. Fairly or unfairly, considering he spent almost three decades in the minors, Baldelli and the others got on him constantly about being cheap.

 

When the Rays would arrive in a new city, Montoyo often would head straight to a Subway, perfectly content to grab a couple of footlongs rather than order room service or go out for an expensive dinner. He also had a habit of removing Keurig coffee pods from his hotel room and stashing them in his backpack for future consumption.

 

One story, though, tops all.

 

“I caught him one day randomly in the bathroom, mixing two different hair gels together,” Baldelli says. “He was cutting them, like you would cut drugs. One of them was really expensive, and he didn’t want to use too much of it. It was called ‘Style Sexy Hair.’

 

“So basically what I caught him doing is putting ‘Style Sexy Hair’ in his hand and then going in the bathroom and adding the no-name CVS brand or whatever, the generic brand. I said, ‘What are you doing?’ I said, ‘Are you cutting your hair gel with cheaper hair gel?’ And he goes, ‘Yeah, that s— is expensive!’”

 

Baldelli laughs, knowing his four-year contract and Montoyo’s three-year deal will allow both to enjoy greater financial security. While their salaries are not known, the lowest-paid managers last season, interims Jim Riggleman of the Reds and Mike Shildt of the Cardinals, earned a prorated $700,000, according to USA Today.

 

“I don’t think Charlie is going to be cutting his hair gel anymore,” Baldelli says.

 

 

Steve Kovich / Tampa Bay Rays

Montoyo thought his time had passed. Of the last 16 managers hired, 10 were younger than 50. Teams increasingly want recently retired players in the dugout, strong communicators who relate well to young talent.

 

Baldelli fits that mold. Montoyo, from listening to Baldelli during games, watching how he anticipated certain sequences, believed his friend would be perfect for the job. Baldelli held the same view of Montoyo, marveling at his instincts, his innate feel for the game.

 

For all their joking, the two coaches were content to remain with the Rays rather than pursue managerial openings. But what Montoyo and Baldelli saw in each other, other clubs saw in them, too.

 

Baldelli interviewed with five teams — the Rangers, Angels, Reds, Blue Jays and Twins. Montoyo interviewed with two, the Reds and Blue Jays, but David Bell was Cincinnati’s leading candidate from the start and the Jays did not call until late in the process, after Baldelli informed teams he was advancing discussions with the Twins.

 

Montoyo considered himself an afterthought, never imagining he had a chance.

 

“No. Not at all,” Montoyo recalls. “I was surprised when Cincinnati first called. And I was surprised when Toronto called. I didn’t see it coming, that’s for sure.”

 

The Blue Jays finally called on Montoyo after repeated recommendations from people around the game, including Baldelli.

 

Still, Montoyo did not take Neander seriously when the GM informed him of the Jays’ interest, initially responding in jest, “Really, dude? You don’t want me anymore?”

 

“It took a little convincing to encourage him that this is real, this is not a token interview,” Neander says.

 

Baldelli, at the start of the process, needed an even bigger push.

 

He seemed ambivalent about leaving the Rays, his only organization for 19 years, save for a one-season stint as a player with the Red Sox in 2009.

 

“He was so loyal to the Rays, even when he was getting the interviews, he didn’t really want to do it,” Montoyo says.

 

Tom Foley, a former Rays coach who is now a special assistant for the team in baseball operations, recalls members of the front office trying to prepare Baldelli before he began his interviews.

 

“I’ll just see what they have to say,” Baldelli told them, almost with a shrug.

 

When someone mentioned that the rival executives interviewing him probably would want to pick his brain on the Rays’ analytics, Baldelli replied, “They’re not going to get anything out of me.”

 

Foley, half-alarmed, half-amused, felt compelled to offer Baldelli some advice.

 

“You had better be ready,” he said. “What happens if one of them offers you a job? Don’t think you’re just going to go there, talk to them and come back home. If somebody offers you a job, you’ve got to give them an answer.”

 

Baldelli’s hurried interview tour lasted almost two weeks. He ended up getting the Twins job over the team’s bench coach, Derek Shelton, a former colleague with the Rays. Shelton, after also failing to land the Rangers managing job, agreed to remain on Baldelli’s staff in the same role.

 

Montoyo’s process with the Blue Jays was a whirlwind, taking just five days from the initial contact to the announcement of his hiring. He did one of his first interviews by phone, sitting in his car in a parking lot near his home in Sahuarita, Ariz., talking on Bluetooth as he waited for his wife, Samantha, to complete a doctor’s appointment.

 

For both coaches, it was a classic case of good things happening when they are least expected.

 

“There’s something to that,” Neander says. “I don’t know the best way to describe this, but it’s like when you’re chasing a member of the opposite sex in high school and you’re obsessed. You’re not yourself because you’re so consumed with what it is that you want, as opposed to appreciating whatever is in front of you and going out and enjoying it.

 

“Both of these guys, it was house money — they didn’t have to have these jobs. The grass was greenest right where they stood, not the other side.”

 

The insults continue to flow through the text chain, only now Cash, Baldelli and Montoyo are competitors instead of colleagues.

 

Cash, left behind with the low-revenue Rays, sounded quite jealous over the Twins’ signing of free-agent designated hitter Nelson Cruz and second baseman Jonathan Schoop for a combined $21.8 million.

 

“This f—— guy leaves and he gets Cruz and Schoop,” Cash said, according to Baldelli.

 

The Jays, less aggressive in free agency while rebuilding, possess even greater financial might. When the time comes for them to spend, Cash and Baldelli will not let Montoyo hear the end of it.

 

“Trust me, Charlie will be next,” Baldelli says. “Believe me.”

 

The Rays, forced to reconfigure their coaching staff, named Quatraro to replace Montoyo as bench coach and former major-league catcher Paul Hoover to replace Baldelli as major-league field coordinator. The team also added Jonathan Erlichman and Justin Su’a to coach analytics and mental skills, respectively.

 

Cash says the Rays cannot re-create what they had with Montoyo and Baldelli, but adds, “The new guys are going to get a pretty good sense fairly quickly that this is a loose atmosphere.” The early signs are good: Hitting coach Chad Mottola says the staff already has responded to Cash’s recent purchase of a new boat, labeling him “Captain Kevin Cash.”

 

Sowers, who remains with the club as major-league operations coordinator, believes the no-holds-barred environment actually is perfect for a team that is forever trying new ideas.

 

“You have to appreciate every different vantage point, every different possibility to make the stuff work,” Sowers says. “There is no shame in bringing stuff up. Being critical of anything is accepted.”

 

Montoyo and Baldelli relished the entire experience, starting with Cash — “beyond all the shenanigans, I think Kevin is flat-out one of the best managers in baseball,” Baldelli says. They also left with a deeper understanding of something that will never change in baseball, even in an age of relentless data-crunching: the importance of having fun.

 

“That’s one thing I learned, even though I managed for a long time — making jokes, being loose, even if you’re losing, that relaxes everybody,” Montoyo says. “If we saw Cash getting tense, Rocco or me would drop a joke. He would laugh, and here we go.”

 

The Blue Jays and Twins are hereby forewarned.

 

The sons of Kevin Cash are on the loose. Laugh tracks coming. Antics ahead.

Posted
That movement I like.

 

So who is going to catch this knucklball? I have seen this movie before.. Guy on 3rd base or 2nd with 1 out and the pitch bounces and gets past the catcher and run scores or moves to sac fly position. He is a reliever not a starter correct? Which makes it worse..

Posted
So who is going to catch this knucklball? I have seen this movie before.. Guy on 3rd base or 2nd with 1 out and the pitch bounces and gets past the catcher and run scores or moves to sac fly position. He is a reliever not a starter correct? Which makes it worse..

 

What's Thole up to?

Posted
Ellsbury has a no trade. He's likely perfectly happy to be a bench player and take home $21M for the next two years before retiring.

 

Of course, if he waives the no trade, the Jays should be trying to do exactly as tercet suggests.

 

$47 Million over the next 3 years to get a couple prospects from the Yankees bottom 10 farm after all their graduations and trades?

 

We don't need to be doing them any favors. Making a trade like this after dumping Tulo seems dumb, maybe take a look again in 2020 if he's still there and we are still really bad.

Posted
$47 Million over the next 3 years to get a couple prospects from the Yankees bottom 10 farm after all their graduations and trades?

 

We don't need to be doing them any favors. Making a trade like this after dumping Tulo seems dumb, maybe take a look again in 2020 if he's still there and we are still really bad.

 

This is simply not true, the Yankees have a bunch of gems in their farm system. But no way in hell are they parting with guys like Contreras, Garcia or Whitlock to remove dead salary.

Posted
$47 Million over the next 3 years to get a couple prospects from the Yankees bottom 10 farm after all their graduations and trades?

 

We don't need to be doing them any favors. Making a trade like this after dumping Tulo seems dumb, maybe take a look again in 2020 if he's still there and we are still really bad.

 

2 years left on Ellsbury contract.... he would be an expensive Granderson for two years. Jays have plenty of room to take on the contract and get two interesting prospects in the deal.

 

It's a moot point anyway, no way in hell does Ellsbury waive his no trade to come to TO

Posted
2 years left on Ellsbury contract.... he would be an expensive Granderson for two years. Jays have plenty of room to take on the contract and get two interesting prospects in the deal.

 

It's a moot point anyway, no way in hell does Ellsbury waive his no trade to come to TO

 

Could be wrong but I thought he had a $5 Million buyout for 2021. Still $42 Million not worth it to me, that money can be better invested.

 

 

This is simply not true, the Yankees have a bunch of gems in their farm system. But no way in hell are they parting with guys like Contreras, Garcia or Whitlock to remove dead salary.

 

Don't get me wrong, they still have high reward prospects but the farm system isn't nearly as good as it was, no near ready guys.

Community Moderator
Posted

 

"Blue Jays GM Ross Atkins says there’s no firm timeline for Vladimir Guerrero Jr., they’re not worried about service time or his arbitration years, and are only focused on his development and what’s best for him and the team."

 

hahahahaha

Posted

Guerrero has to learn how to be a good teammate, develop leadership skills, and work on his defence.

 

Nothing two weeks in the minors won't fix.

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