Jays/Os TV Ratings

[RealAccountant]

There's only one reason. One team has an ownership that prioritizes winning a World Series, and one team has an ownership that would like to win a World Series, but prioritizes profits and shareholders. That's what happens when your owner is a conglomerate and not a rich baseball fan. As far as actual revenue is concerned, the Jays are right there with the Red Sox over the last two years and possibly even higher.

 

In this particular case, profits to the shareholders is directly driven by Playoff Content.

 

Mind you the ratings wouldn't stay this high, but we are talking about 10-15 extra games probably, and being very conservative each game worth at least $10Mil to the bottom line.

 

When we talk about payroll, clearly the benefits outweigh the costs.

 

I hope Shapiro is ready to play on these grounds.

[RealAccountant]

. IMO he wouldn't have left the team he built in Cleveland .

 

It can be argued his days in Cleveland were numbered, considering he had been the president there for more than a decade with no success to show for it (Oh a wild card)

[WONDERBAT]

There is absolutely zero reason why the Boston Red Sox should have a significantly larger payroll than the Jays. We had better attendance and a much, MUCH larger market both locally and nationally.

 

Before these past two seasons we were no where close to these numbers. For the first time since Rogers took over they are seeing the results of winning baseball, can't really argue with how they've handled payroll since it has steadily climbed over the years.

[SAAviour]

Remember when MLB gave us $5 mil a year (I think 5 mil) to support payroll.....

[jays4life19]

Remember when MLB gave us $5 mil a year (I think 5 mil) to support payroll.....

 

That was such a s*** deal. "Hey, Jays...take crappy college baseball players with low ceilings and we'll give you some cash"

[SweetSmellingChacin]

I pulled this from a blog, the top 5 games with the highest ratings.

 

1. ALCS Game 6, Toronto @ Kansas City (Oct. 23, 2015) 5.12 million

2. ALDS Game 5, Texas @ Toronto (Oct. 14, 2015): 4.88 million

3. ALDS Game 4, Toronto @ Texas (Oct. 12, 2015): 4.38 million

4. ALDS Game 3, Toronto @ Texas (Oct. 11, 2015): 4.2 million

5. AL Wild Card Game, Baltimore @ Toronto (Oct. 4, 2016): 4.02 million

[Inklink]

Fk it. Sign Bautista and Eddy to whatever, hire AA to trade their bad contracts in a couple of years.

[RealAccountant]

Fk it. Sign Bautista and Eddy to whatever, hire AA to trade their bad contracts in a couple of years.

 

Let's not get carried away

 

Edwin is great now but if he ages like every other slugger not named Ortiz he will be below replacement player in 2-3 years

 

Bautista I would resign because of the franchise value

[Governator]

Let's not get carried away

 

Edwin is great now but if he ages like every other slugger not named Ortiz he will be below replacement player in 2-3 years

 

Bautista I would resign because of the franchise value

 

 

Why only Ortiz?... How about Adrian Beltre, Nelson Cruz, Victor Martinez, Pujols, Beltran... None of these guys are 'below replacement players'..

 

And what does sign Bautista because of the franchise value mean? lol

Edited October 7, 2016 by Governator

[burlingtonbandit]

I think however that Shapiro is a smart guy who probably negotiated a payroll increase proportionate to attendance/revenue increase when he took the job. IMO he wouldn't have left the team he built in Cleveland unless he knew there was a chance to operate a team with a top tier payroll. I hope I am right.

 

He's been on radio saying there is no chance the Jays can compete with the Yankees and Red Sox Payrolls. With him being such a great communicator you would think he would be able to sway the Rogers board to pump more money into the team.

 

Its insane how much money Rogers makes off the Blue Jays since they own Sportsnet.

[Slugger]

It can be argued his days in Cleveland were numbered, considering he had been the president there for more than a decade with no success to show for it (Oh a wild card)

 

2005, 2007?

[BlueRocky]

$200M payroll plz

 

Due to poor exchange rate and the need to upgrade Dunedin's facilities to world class, payroll will be reduced back to 130 Million.

But don't worry, we'll be getting two draft picks when everyone walks and we'll have the safety net of Smoak on first base and Upton in left field.

/memo

[Atothe]

Didn't Hurl explain this to you guys over and over again? Advertising dollars in Canada compared to the US is a huge discrepancy. They aren't printing money like you assume

[gruber92]

Due to poor exchange rate and the need to upgrade Dunedin's facilities to world class, payroll will be reduced back to 130 Million.

But don't worry, we'll be getting two draft picks when everyone walks and we'll have the safety net of Smoak on first base and Upton in left field.

/memo

 

Ban

[BlueJaysGirl]

I thought in the past MLB gave the Jays a subsidy to make up for the dollar exchange disparity. It's be nice to have that in 2017+

 

I would love to sign JB and EE to contracts going forward, but at some point one has to be scared of becoming the Phillies of the not to distant past; a team laden with expensive veterans on the decline that are virtually unmovable and drawing little interest from fans as the wins become losses.

 

With guys like Martin and Tulo under contract, I'm not sure if I want a team where the salary is $180 and the average age is 35.

[gruber92]

I thought in the past MLB gave the Jays a subsidy to make up for the dollar exchange disparity. It's be nice to have that in 2017+

 

I would love to sign JB and EE to contracts going forward, but at some point one has to be scared of becoming the Phillies of the not to distant past; a team laden with expensive veterans on the decline that are virtually unmovable and drawing little interest from fans as the wins become losses.

 

With guys like Martin and Tulo under contract, I'm not sure if I want a team where the salary is $180 and the average age is 35.

 

There is no way both EE and Bautista are resigned, one of them possibly.

[Dick_Pole]

Guys, we don't need to debate about this here. There are financial reports that Rogers must publicly disclose. Of course they don't have to disclose every little detail, but they have disclosed enough:

 

http://netstorage-ion.rogers.com/downloads/IR/pdf/quarterly-results/Rogers-2016-Q2-Results-Release.pdf

 

Higher revenue

 

Consolidated revenue increased 2% this quarter, reflecting revenue growth of 1% in Wireless, 6% in Media, and 3% in Business Solutions, with stable revenue in Cable. Wireless service revenue increased by 5% primarily as a result of a larger subscriber base and the continued adoption of higher-postpaid-ARPA-generating Rogers Share Everything plans. Cable revenue was stable as continued double-digit Internet revenue growth of 15% fully offset the ongoing decline in Television and Phone revenue. We continue to see an ongoing shift in product mix to higher margin Internet services. Media revenue increased primarily due to the continued success of our sports-related assets, mainly from the Toronto Blue Jays and the strength of Sportsnet, partially offset by lower advertising revenue in conventional broadcast television, publishing, and radio.

 

So without the Blue Jays, Rogers would be s***ing the bed. Keep in mind these numbers cover April-June quarter. Q3 numbers ending September should be out in a couple of weeks.

 

More details:

 

Revenue

The 6% increase in revenue this quarter and 2% increase year to date were a result of:

 higher sports-related revenue, driven by the strength of Sportsnet and success of the Toronto Blue Jays; partially offset by

 lower advertising revenues across radio, publishing, and broadcast TV.

 

Operating expenses

The 7% increase in operating expenses this quarter and 3% increase year to date were a result of:

 higher sports-related costs; partially offset by

 lower conventional broadcast TV and radio costs, partly due to cost savings from previously announced job cuts.

 

Rogers is spending more on "sports-related" costs. Some of that could be payroll, otherwise it could be from the bad NHL deal that other people have already mentioned. Unfortunately we don't have that level of detail, but at least this time around we know the Jays aren't funding Rogers' bad magazine business. I like the wording in the revenue versus expense section where in the revenue section they specifically attribute the rise of sports-related revenue to Sportsnet and the Jays, but on the cost side they don't wish to disclose the exact cause.

[ElNik2013]

I don't see a conflict between making a profit and fielding a contending team. In fact, they go hand in hand. If the team can continue to acquire good players which allow it to contend and make a profit, all the power to them.

 

I'm sure they'll make a fair market offer to EE and/or Bautista. If a team wants to offer 3+ years at over 20M/year, then let them go and take the pick. Or maybe they re-sign 1 and replace the other with 1 or 2 players that are younger and provide a more all-around game.

 

We'll see what happens.

[TheHurl]

I don't see a conflict between making a profit and fielding a contending team. In fact, they go hand in hand. If the team can continue to acquire good players which allow it to contend and make a profit, all the power to them.

 

We'll see what happens.

 

Do profits increase that much though?

 

It's been shown that Jays fans as much as any in baseball have this expectation that spending never stop increasing. Yet if it's unsuccessful they will desert the team quite quickly. The good news is that every successful season buys another successful season now as they are forcing season ticket holders into renewing earlier and earlier every year. The documents are out there, the media division has grown thanks in big part to the Jays but the numbers are incredibly overstated here.

 

2012 Revenue 1.62B -----> 2015 Revenue 2.079B (for note 2014 1.826B)

2012 Total Operating Profit 190M ------> 2015 Total Operating Profit 172M (2014 131M)

 

Important Notes from last years final quarter.

 

Operating revenue

The 3% increase in operating revenue this quarter was a result of:

• higher subscription and advertising revenue generated by our Sportsnet properties; and

• higher Toronto Blue Jays game day and merchandise revenue as a result of the postseason; partially offset by

• continued softness in conventional broadcast TV and print advertising;

 

So overall the Jays increased gate and merchandise revenue (which is also part of sharing though) but no one wants to advertise on anything but Blue Jays broadcasts (robbing Peter to pay Paul).

 

The real value to the Jays is the effect it has on Rogers is the paper Value of the team keeps increasing and it's been shown that better Jays ratings has an effect on Wireless and Cable (and more importantly the 2012 report that said the Jays fans frustrations with Rogers was hurting their Cable and Wireless bottom line).

 

I'd like to note that there are some bad Media decisions which take place (anything to do with Print mostly) which have cost the bottom line over these years.

[ElNik2013]

Do profits increase that much though?

 

It's been shown that Jays fans as much as any in baseball have this expectation that spending never stop increasing. Yet if it's unsuccessful they will desert the team quite quickly. The good news is that every successful season buys another successful season now as they are forcing season ticket holders into renewing earlier and earlier every year. The documents are out there, the media division has grown thanks in big part to the Jays but the numbers are incredibly overstated here.

 

2012 Revenue 1.62B -----> 2015 Revenue 2.079B (for note 2014 1.826B)

2012 Total Operating Profit 190M ------> 2015 Total Operating Profit 172M (2014 131M)

 

Important Notes from last years final quarter.

 

Operating revenue

The 3% increase in operating revenue this quarter was a result of:

• higher subscription and advertising revenue generated by our Sportsnet properties; and

• higher Toronto Blue Jays game day and merchandise revenue as a result of the postseason; partially offset by

• continued softness in conventional broadcast TV and print advertising;

 

So overall the Jays increased gate and merchandise revenue (which is also part of sharing though) but no one wants to advertise on anything but Blue Jays broadcasts (robbing Peter to pay Paul).

 

The real value to the Jays is the effect it has on Rogers is the paper Value of the team keeps increasing and it's been shown that better Jays ratings has an effect on Wireless and Cable (and more importantly the 2012 report that said the Jays fans frustrations with Rogers was hurting their Cable and Wireless bottom line).

 

I'd like to note that there are some bad Media decisions which take place (anything to do with Print mostly) which have cost the bottom line over these years.

 

Good info, thanks. So Blue Jays are Peter and the other content is Paul?

 

I certainly don't know if profits increase that much because of fielding a contending team. I thik I should have said 'in fact, they could go hand in hand either way'. It's also certainly true that fans will desert the team as soon as it goes through a rough stretch again.

 

I think team has been fine over the last 3/4 years and is fine going forward.

 

Also, very good point regarding franchise valuation and I find that 2012 report you cited quite interesting in terms of how aggressive they became late that year.

 

Anyway, we'll see what happens...

[TheHurl]

Good info, thanks. So Blue Jays are Peter and the other content is Paul?

 

I certainly don't know if profits increase that much because of fielding a contending team. I thik I should have said 'in fact, they could go hand in hand either way'. It's also certainly true that fans will desert the team as soon as it goes through a rough stretch again.

 

I think team has been fine over the last 3/4 years and is fine going forward.

 

Also, very good point regarding franchise valuation and I find that 2012 report you cited quite interesting in terms of how aggressive they became late that year.

 

Anyway, we'll see what happens...

 

I'll also add in that every other Ad during Jays games is from other Rogers products so the Jays ad revenue will always be understated in that way (and that is why the Jays have an effect on the Wireless)

[SweetSmellingChacin]

The fact that Rogers and its wholly owned subsidiary the Toronto Blue Jays are enjoying the fruits of the team's labours and drawing huge television audiences is an interesting story in itself.

 

But while the team's series-clinching win over the Texas Rangers on Sunday averaged a whopping 4.73 million viewers on Sportsnet is impressive, it's kind of what you'd expect for such a big event. That game's audience, for example, peaked at 7 million in the decisive 10th inning -- about the same number that watched Andre DeGrasse and Usain Bolt duel it out in the 200 metres at the Rio Olympics.

 

Big events draw big audiences.

 

What's really unusual is the way interest in the Jays has driven up interest in baseball. The third most-watched sports event over the holiday weekend, topped only by the Jays' two games, was Monday's series clincher between the Boston Red Sox and Cleveland Indians.

 

That game averaged 1.27 million viewers up against Monday Night Football, which managed to draw only 264,000 viewers to TSN (incidentally, less than half the audience that the day's earlier CFL doubleheader drew to the same channel.)

 

That brought the average of the three-game series to 994,000 -- more than 200 per cent of what last year's Houston-Kansas City ALDS series averaged.

 

That surge was also seen in the National League games, which saw a 53 per cent jump over last year (prior to Monday's game (440,000).

 

The reason behind all that is the Jays, who produced the third most-watched game in Sportsnet's history Sunday night.

 

Those numbers should continue to grow and could threaten to beat the Sportsnet record the Jays set last year in Game 6 against Kansas City (5.12 million.) And while the start time for Saturday's ALCS Game 2 against Cleveland hasn't been determined yet, it will be interesting to see what happens if it goes head-to-head with Hockey Night In Canada.

 

If it does, the smart money will be on the Jays.

 

Here are the most-watched sports events on English-language television over the Thanksgiving weekend, according to Numeris overnight ratings:

 

1. MLB, Rangers at Blue Jays, Sunday, Sportsnet: 4,730,000

 

2. MLB, Blue Jays at Rangers, Friday, Sportsnet: 2,290,000

 

3. MLB, Red Sox at Indians, Sunday, Sportsnet: 1,270,000

 

4. NFL, Pats-Browns/Eagles-Lions/Jets-Steelers, Texans-Vikes, Sunday, CTV/TSN: 921,000

 

5. NFL, Bills-Rams/Bengals-Cowboys/ Hawks-Broncos, Sunday, CTV/TSN: 897,000

 

6. MLB, Red Sox at Indians, Friday, Sportsnet: 882,000

 

7. CFL, Lions at Blue Bombers, Saturday, TSN: 801,000

 

8. CFL, Stampeders at Argonauts, Monday, TSN: 598,000

 

9. CFL, Eskimos at Alouettes, Monday, TSN: 580,000

 

10. NHL, Canucks at Oilers, Saturday, Sportsnet 360: 487,000

 

11. CFL, Roughriders at Redblacks, Friday, TSN: 467,000

 

12. MLB, Cubs at Giants, Monday, Sportsnet: 440,000

 

13. MLB, Dodgers at Nationals, Sunday, Sportsnet One: 391,000

 

13. MLB, Giants at Cubs, Friday, Sportsnet: 391,000

 

15. NHL, Maple Leafs at Red Wings, Saturday, TSN: 336,000

 

16. NFL, Buccaneers at Panthers, Monday, TSN: 264,000

 

17. NHL, Red Wings at Maple Leafs, Friday, Sportsnet 360: 221,000

 

18. Auto racing, NASCAR Bank of America 500, Sunday, TSN: 173,000

 

19. MLB, Dodgers at Nationals, Friday, Sportsnet One: 159,000

 

20. Martial arts, UFC 264 preliminaries, Saturday, TSN: 135,000

 

21. Auto racing, Japanese Grand Prix, Sunday, TSN: 130,000

 

 

https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/eh-game/the-great-canadian-ratings-report--210943993.html

[RealAccountant]

I'll also add in that every other Ad during Jays games is from other Rogers products so the Jays ad revenue will always be understated in that way (and that is why the Jays have an effect on the Wireless)

 

Having said all that they must have internal analysis showing the true value. Let's say that all of us don't know what those numbers are really worth but Rogers should at least know

[burlingtonbandit]

Is the MLB postseason a separate entity outside of the Blue Jays? Like can TSN bid on them? If so the Jays could make a ton of money just on that alone, but you'd alienate your bosses in the process lol. Have to think the MLB postseason rights would be worth 30 Million on the open market.

[RealAccountant]

I could be wrong but doesn't tsn already hold the rights to all ESPN content

[BigRed]

I thought in the past MLB gave the Jays a subsidy to make up for the dollar exchange disparity. It's be nice to have that in 2017+

 

I would love to sign JB and EE to contracts going forward, but at some point one has to be scared of becoming the Phillies of the not to distant past; a team laden with expensive veterans on the decline that are virtually unmovable and drawing little interest from fans as the wins become losses.

 

With guys like Martin and Tulo under contract, I'm not sure if I want a team where the salary is $180 and the average age is 35.

 

This is the thing.

 

To bump payroll up by another ~20M, you typically aren't adding that over just a single season - it's going to be money added over 2-3, or even 4-5+ years. Players who make 15-20+ million aren't signed to one year deals - they sign multi-year deals.

 

So for the Jays to get closer to the luxury tax - say ~180M, that's not just going to be for a single season where they can drop back down to 140-160M if they have a bad year or two. It's not just an added 20M from the ~160M they have right now, it's more likely +20 million over several years, anywhere from a total of ~40-100M.

 

Then you look at all the high payroll (160-180M) teams that aren't in the playoffs -- Yankees, Tigers, Angels, etc, or teams that had early exits like the Red Sox, Giants, etc and it becomes a little more obvious why the Jays have increased payroll, but cautiously and gradually, and not over long term (+5 year) contracts.

 

I also have some doubts as to the valuation of a playoff game to the bottom line. I really doubt a single game is worth 10M+, especially when you consider that half (or more) of the games are on the road since the Jays only had home field for the wildcard. Then you consider some of the gate revenue is shared, and the value of advertising is unknown (not the same as what US advertisers pay, and a lot of spots are for other Rogers/Sportsnet products), I'd be surprised if a home game comes anywhere near 10M to the bottom line.

[o2cui2i]

This was the 5th most in Sportsnet history in terms of ratings, #1 was ALCS game 5 at 5.12 million viewers and you'd think that ALDS game 5 was somewhere inbetween as well. I'd guess 3 of the top 5 are the Jays.

 

yet they are willing to pay ridiculous money to show hockey and not invest in the jays team which they actually own.

[KingKat]

yet they are willing to pay ridiculous money to show hockey and not invest in the jays team which they actually own.

 

Sometimes it's hard to understand the thought process at Rogers. They made a very aggressive decision to pull the plug on Shomi but they are still pushing Texture (formerly NextIssue) and that's been a dog from the start.

[burlingtonbandit]

This is the thing.

 

To bump payroll up by another ~20M, you typically aren't adding that over just a single season - it's going to be money added over 2-3, or even 4-5+ years. Players who make 15-20+ million aren't signed to one year deals - they sign multi-year deals.

 

So for the Jays to get closer to the luxury tax - say ~180M, that's not just going to be for a single season where they can drop back down to 140-160M if they have a bad year or two. It's not just an added 20M from the ~160M they have right now, it's more likely +20 million over several years, anywhere from a total of ~40-100M.

 

Then you look at all the high payroll (160-180M) teams that aren't in the playoffs -- Yankees, Tigers, Angels, etc, or teams that had early exits like the Red Sox, Giants, etc and it becomes a little more obvious why the Jays have increased payroll, but cautiously and gradually, and not over long term (+5 year) contracts.

 

I also have some doubts as to the valuation of a playoff game to the bottom line. I really doubt a single game is worth 10M+, especially when you consider that half (or more) of the games are on the road since the Jays only had home field for the wildcard. Then you consider some of the gate revenue is shared, and the value of advertising is unknown (not the same as what US advertisers pay, and a lot of spots are for other Rogers/Sportsnet products), I'd be surprised if a home game comes anywhere near 10M to the bottom line.

 

If team is bad then they likely sell off a bunch of the older players so the payroll would drop in the coming seasons. Considering the TV ratings I think 10 Million is a very fair figure. Just think an average of 3-4 Million for a playoff game plus the pre and post game show. NHL regional deals go for 30-35 Million and thats for 50 games at an average audience for around 200K.

[eastcoastjaysfan]

Sometimes it's hard to understand the thought process at Rogers. They made a very aggressive decision to pull the plug on Shomi but they are still pushing Texture (formerly NextIssue) and that's been a dog from the start.

 

So true. Bought a McDonalds coffee today and the Monoploy game thing has started. They're giving away over 1 million subscriptions to Texture as a prize. Lol GTFO of here with that. Nobody wants that s***.