Encarnacion: 'I want to stay on this team'

[BTS]

That movie was so stupid. The narrative was that they won on the backs of a bunch of scrappy, undervalued OBP guys. The truth was they had an MVP shortstop, arguably the best 3B in baseball, and 3 aces who didn't even get MENTIONED.

 

Even the book barely mentions Zito/Mulder/Hudson or Tejada and Chavez. It also makes it sounds like Beane found a bunch of gems in the draft with his stat scouting, when almost none of the college guys discussed in the book had a major league career. IIRC Swisher was the only hit, and he was a consensus 1st round pick anyway.

[burlingtonbandit]

Where do we rank Beane as a GM/president in MLB right now? 15th-20 range?

[GD]

That movie was so stupid. The narrative was that they won on the backs of a bunch of scrappy, undervalued OBP guys. The truth was they had an MVP shortstop, arguably the best 3B in baseball, and 3 aces who didn't even get MENTIONED.

 

More of a Michael Lewis problem. Although I love Michael Lewis

[jays_fever]

What about the part Jonah Hill convinces Beane to go out and get Chad Bradford for a bargain...when he was already on the bloody team. I enjoyed when I saw it, but the more and more ******** you come to realize about the movie just leaves you feeling sour.

[Dr. Dinger]

Where do we rank Beane as a GM/president in MLB right now? 15th-20 range?

 

Hard to say now that LAD has like 4 of the top 10 GMs.

[SaskJaysFan_2]

Hard to say now that LAD has like 4 of the top 10 GMs.

 

No kidding, AA (for example) is in the perfect position for his GM skills. Man, what a FO.

[JuniorFelix]

Sign Austin Jackson for 2 years 18M

Trade Saunders for whatever you can get

Sign Edwin for 3 years 65M

Let Bautista walk for a comp pick

I don't think it'd even take that much for AJ. 2 years @ 14, or one at 8 might get it done at this point.

 

I'd rather roll the dice on Saunders though, who at this point, has a much higher upside. Of course, getting there and staying there will be the tricky part.

 

edit: Dude put up 2.4 WAR in 78 games in 2014...That's why you hang onto him and hope he can hobble for a little while longer.

[GD]

What about the part Jonah Hill convinces Beane to go out and get Chad Bradford for a bargain...when he was already on the bloody team. I enjoyed when I saw it, but the more and more ******** you come to realize about the movie just leaves you feeling sour.

 

Would be weird to leave Bradford out though. He got a whole chapter in the book IIRC.

[saskjayfan]

I don't think it'd even take that much for AJ. 2 years @ 14, or one at 8 might get it done at this point.

 

I'd rather roll the dice on Saunders though, who at this point, has a much higher upside. Of course, getting there and staying there will be the tricky part.

 

edit: Dude put up 2.4 WAR in 78 games in 2014...That's why you hang onto him and hope he can hobble for a little while longer.

 

I like Sauders too. He's cheap. I'm glad the trade for Bruce didn't go through. Save your money for other players and roll the dice with Saunders.

[labadee]

i hate that we have to choose between EE and JB. I love EE

[JosJos]

Sign Austin Jackson for 2 years 18M

Trade Saunders for whatever you can get

Sign Edwin for 3 years 65M

Let Bautista walk for a comp pick

 

Austin Jackson ewwwwww no thx

No chance edwin will sign for 3 years, likely at least 4 or 5 he gonna ask for

I'll take a chance with saunders and see what he does saunders>jackson by a mile

[BTS]

Austin Jackson ewwwwww no thx

No chance edwin will sign for 3 years, likely at least 4 or 5 he gonna ask for

I'll take a chance with saunders and see what he does saunders>jackson by a mile

 

Mods

[Spanky99]

After watching EE during that interview on the TV box... I just wanted to hug him, he's so humble and lovable!

[Spanky99]

i hate that we have to choose between EE and JB. I love EE

 

The latter will sign. We'll get a comp pick for JB, not so bad at all. Flags Fly Forever!!!

[crazy47larry]

I've always thought Edwin would age better than Jose. Being younger is a huge plus in that regard but I also feel his golf swing and approach will age better. Jose will fall off a cliff whereas Edwin will slowly recede. The biggest question has been when will Jose finally go over the edge. I think its sooner than people think but I also think people are kind of in that bubble where they want so bad for this team and its players to succeed that they don't want to project any sort of failure. Whenever I read about Jose "Being a crazy good athlete in better shape and he takes way better care of himself than anyone else" I think of that unrealistic positivity, and comments like that have been plastered everywhere lately. Say what you want about him taking care of himself but this is also a guy who injured his shoulder trying to throw a guy out at first base. That doesnt sound like an elite athlete to me. That sounds like an older guys cranky body breaking down. This then subsequently handcuffed our DH spot for over a month which was extremely annoying. I also think this is one of the downsides of Bautistas bravado. He probably (definitely?) should have been sent to the DL.

 

Lots of ins and outs obviously but assuming they both get 4 or 5 year deals for near similar salaries I would side with Edwin being the better investment. I felt this way before Buatista opened his yap aswell. My pie in the sky case scenario was Shapiro re-signs Edwin early to a fairly frinedly deal and then at the end of the season Ed/Ted/Idiot Rogers steps up and increases the budget to keep his favorite blue jay, bautista. seems unlikely now though, what with bautista calling rogers out and telling them their s*** does, in fact, actually stink. high minded upper management ceo types never like that kind of stuff.

[Atothe]

Jose made the choice for the team. Sad but I still love Jose for what he did here

[burlingtonbandit]

I've always thought Edwin would age better than Jose. Being younger is a huge plus in that regard but I also feel his golf swing and approach will age better. Jose will fall off a cliff whereas Edwin will slowly recede. The biggest question has been when will Jose finally go over the edge. I think its sooner than people think but I also think people are kind of in that bubble where they want so bad for this team and its players to succeed that they don't want to project any sort of failure. Whenever I read about Jose "Being a crazy good athlete in better shape and he takes way better care of himself than anyone else" I think of that unrealistic positivity, and comments like that have been plastered everywhere lately. Say what you want about him taking care of himself but this is also a guy who injured his shoulder trying to throw a guy out at first base. That doesnt sound like an elite athlete to me. That sounds like an older guys cranky body breaking down. This then subsequently handcuffed our DH spot for over a month which was extremely annoying. I also think this is one of the downsides of Bautistas bravado. He probably (definitely?) should have been sent to the DL.

 

Lots of ins and outs obviously but assuming they both get 4 or 5 year deals for near similar salaries I would side with Edwin being the better investment. I felt this way before Buatista opened his yap aswell. My pie in the sky case scenario was Shapiro re-signs Edwin early to a fairly frinedly deal and then at the end of the season Ed/Ted/Idiot Rogers steps up and increases the budget to keep his favorite blue jay, bautista. seems unlikely now though, what with bautista calling rogers out and telling them their s*** does, in fact, actually stink. high minded upper management ceo types never like that kind of stuff.

 

Jeez. So much crap in one post.

[crazy47larry]

Jeez. So much crap in one post.

 

i take it you disagree? why?

[burlingtonbandit]

i take it you disagree? why?

 

You talk about Jose's shoulder but don't mention EE just had a hernia and finger issues all year. Not to mention injuries in the past and the "type" of body that breaks down.

 

Also Bautista was very productive in the DH spot when he was there so it didn't exactly "handcuff" the team. Having JB and EE both in the lineup at that time helped the team more than if JB was on the DL.

[glory]

Since 2012 (wRC+ per year)

Edwin: 150, 146, 151, 150

JBats: 137, 135, 160, 147

 

Obviously, Edwin doesn't bring any base running or defensive value, which is why Bautista is the better player overall, but when deciding between the two of them it really comes down to who you think will age better with the bat. My money is on Bautista, but if it's possible to get Edwin for half of what Bautista is asking for, then he becomes a more realistic option.

 

I'd be OK with moving on from both of them (with Bautista there doesn't appear to be a choice), but if the deal is reasonable, then I'd be fine with bringing Edwin back. It wouldn't shock me if Edwin comes back similarly to Alex Gordon in KC, maybe taking a little bit less to stay where he is comfortable after testing free agency. Obviously, if another team blows the Jays offer out the water, then he's gone, and no one would blame him. The key is how many teams are going to pay that much for a DH? His market might be complicated by that.

[Jimcanuck]

Since 2012 (wRC+ per year)

Edwin: 150, 146, 151, 150

JBats: 137, 135, 160, 147

 

Obviously, Edwin doesn't bring any base running or defensive value, which is why Bautista is the better player overall, but when deciding between the two of them it really comes down to who you think will age better with the bat. My money is on Bautista, but if it's possible to get Edwin for half of what Bautista is asking for, then he becomes a more realistic option.

 

I'd be OK with moving on from both of them (with Bautista there doesn't appear to be a choice), but if the deal is reasonable, then I'd be fine with bringing Edwin back. It wouldn't shock me if Edwin comes back similarly to Alex Gordon in KC, maybe taking a little bit less to stay where he is comfortable after testing free agency. Obviously, if another team blows the Jays offer out the water, then he's gone, and no one would blame him. The key is how many teams are going to pay that much for a DH? His market might be complicated by that.

 

Umm, EE can play a passable 1B. Bautista is replacement level or worse as a RF. Surprising to some but not to me (my trusty veteran eye), EE seems to have the better baserunning stats on Fangraphs.

[JosJos]

Mods

 

???

[KingKat]

???

 

It's a board meme not a serious call for moderation.

[crazy47larry]

You talk about Jose's shoulder but don't mention EE just had a hernia and finger issues all year. Not to mention injuries in the past and the "type" of body that breaks down.

 

Also Bautista was very productive in the DH spot when he was there so it didn't exactly "handcuff" the team. Having JB and EE both in the lineup at that time helped the team more than if JB was on the DL.

 

My main reason for mentioning Bautistas shoulder was to demonstrate the believed flaw in the "amazing athlete" argument that's getting perpetuated. If I was arguing Edwin's body was better I wouldn't mention Bautista's 'legendary workout regimen' at all. All bodies break down, just Jose's breakdown is 2+ years closer than Edwins. If you are implying that Jose is some transcendent athlete that is beyond that I dont agree at all.

 

Also its more of an age/swing type thing than a body thing. I think Edwins a better overall hitter and I think that skill set ages better. It takes a lot more to go wrong for him to bottom out. Please don't take that as a slight on Bautista as hes still damn good.

 

It handcuffed the team defensively, not offensively. When Bautista is at DH and Encarnacion is at 1B then we see stuff like Colabello in LF more often, which is just.... words cannot describe...

I dont think anything can handcuff this team offensively other than everyone getting the measles or something *knock on wood*.

[Captain Adama]

Jeez. So much crap in one post.

 

Oh the irony.

[burlingtonbandit]

My main reason for mentioning Bautistas shoulder was to demonstrate the believed flaw in the "amazing athlete" argument that's getting perpetuated. If I was arguing Edwin's body was better I wouldn't mention Bautista's 'legendary workout regimen' at all. All bodies break down, just Jose's breakdown is 2+ years closer than Edwins. If you are implying that Jose is some transcendent athlete that is beyond that I dont agree at all.

 

Also its more of an age/swing type thing than a body thing. I think Edwins a better overall hitter and I think that skill set ages better. It takes a lot more to go wrong for him to bottom out. Please don't take that as a slight on Bautista as hes still damn good.

 

It handcuffed the team defensively, not offensively. When Bautista is at DH and Encarnacion is at 1B then we see stuff like Colabello in LF more often, which is just.... words cannot describe...

I dont think anything can handcuff this team offensively other than everyone getting the measles or something *knock on wood*.

 

Interested why you think Edwin is the better hitter? Jose has the better walk rate and his contact rates really haven't declined at all, while Edwin's zone contact % has declined each of the last 3 years. Bodies aside, it looks like Edwin is already declining.

 

Jose's power has declined from what it was but he swung at less pitches out of the zone last year than any season after 2009. He's walked more than he has struck out in each of the last 2 seasons.

 

Like you said both are still fantastic hitters but I don't think Edwin is the better hitter now nor will he be in 2 years.

[JosJos]

It's a board meme not a serious call for moderation.

 

Oh. But what does it mean? a meme sometime can mean something.

[crazy47larry]

Interested why you think Edwin is the better hitter? Jose has the better walk rate and his contact rates really haven't declined at all, while Edwin's zone contact % has declined each of the last 3 years. Bodies aside, it looks like Edwin is already declining.

 

Jose's power has declined from what it was but he swung at less pitches out of the zone last year than any season after 2009. He's walked more than he has struck out in each of the last 2 seasons.

 

Like you said both are still fantastic hitters but I don't think Edwin is the better hitter now nor will he be in 2 years.

 

Edwin and Jose both got off to slow starts last year. Edwin was hurting if I remember correct (which doesnt really help my health argument but stick with me) and only played in 11 ST games. Jose played a pretty full slate of 19 ST games. They both got off to rough starts but after that first month of the regular season Edwin outpaced Bautista in WRC+, wOBA, ISO, AVG, OBP, and SLUG.

[G-Snarls]

Oh. But what does it mean? a meme sometime can mean something.

 

It means he thought your post was really bad. Sorry. You asked.

[Slugger]

Oh. But what does it mean? a meme sometime can mean something.

 

Calling for the mods to come ban you.