GDT(3/3): Your Toronto Blue Jays @ Boston Red Sux - Dickey vs. Porcello - 6:10 PM ET

[ScientificReason]

I don't know why you have a hard time believing there would be a difference in both the rotation & bullpen with Stroman here.

 

How does the bullpen become even worse with Sanchez in it? He's built for the pen, throwing 97 with movement for an inning is all that's needed from him just as it worked for over 2 months last season. He's reliable and consistent there.

 

Replacing a #5/6 with a #1/2 is also the biggest improvement a team can make to their rotation, so yes Stroman in there over Sanchez could very well be the difference maker. Stroman's numbers were just as good throughout his minors career that he transferred over to the majors when he started. He's proven he can get big leaguers out using 6 pitches, there's little reason to believe he can't continue that success especially with Martin calling.

 

 

Oh my, it appears reading and comprehension is not a skill you possess...I never said it would not be Better then it is with a healthy stroman, but I am saying it is still not a great rotation or bullpen with stroman. Please point out where I said it would be as bad with stroman? Even with Stroman it is a average at best to below average staff.

 

When I said "Even Worse bullpen" I mean the bullpen is even worse the the starters, not that it would be worse with Sanchez there.

[ScientificReason]

People are questioning why would AA now give up anything for a front of the rotation starter when he could have just signed one in the offseason. The answer is simple, it wasn't a great need in the offseason when they had Stroman, now that he's gone they need to replace his production because Sanchez can't fill the void. Whether or not he was durable for the entire season no one can answer, but that's what the trade deadline can be used for. A rental.

 

It was a great need, anyone thinking stroman makes this staff from one of the worst to one of the better ones in baseball is dilusional. Stroman made it better, but after that is is still a suspect pitching staff. With stroman we go from terrible to not that good....We needed another arm regardless.

[guylaroche5]

It was a great need, anyone thinking stroman makes this staff from one of the worst to one of the better ones in baseball is dilusional. Stroman made it better, but after that is is still a suspect pitching staff. With stroman we go from terrible to not that good....We needed another arm regardless.

 

stroman in the rotation and sanchez in the pen makes us exponentially better. That rotation isn't elite but it's not half bad either, it was definitely good enough to win the AL east

[ScientificReason]

stroman in the rotation and sanchez in the pen makes us exponentially better. That rotation isn't elite but it's not half bad either, it was definitely good enough to win the AL east

 

 

Not saying much considering how bad the division is, it is better but not exponentially. We go from 28-30th in baseball to what, 20th or so? We needed another arm to be considered contenders...When was the last time a team went 162 games without a starter going down? too much had to go right with players that have not even played a full season, it was bound to blow up. i think some of you are over rating what our staff would have been even with stroman.

[Governator]

Oh my, it appears reading and comprehension is not a skill you possess...I never said it would not be Better then it is with a healthy stroman, but I am saying it is still not a great rotation or bullpen with stroman. Please point out where I said it would be as bad with stroman? Even with Stroman it is a average at bestto below average staff.

 

When I said "Even Worse bullpen" I mean the bullpen is even worse the the starters, not that it would be worse with Sanchez there.

 

 

Average != Very Weak

 

Also, writing is not your forte.

[ScientificReason]

Average != Very Weak

 

Also, writing is not your forte.

 

Average at best was being kind, stop cherry picking words. It was not a good rotation even with stroman. It didn't take an expert to see the bullpen and pitching staff would be an issue.

[Governator]

Average at best was being kind, stop cherry picking words. It was not a good rotation even with stroman.

 

 

You wrote very weak which implies the rotation wouldn't be much better at all with Stroman in it over Sanchez, which is just not true. It's like if I told you it's warm outside vs hot. Your choice of adjectives matter if you expect people to comprehend what you are saying.

 

 

Regardless it doesn't change much and I can't be bothered trying to defend AA.

[KingKat]

You can argue that AA should have acquired a starter in the offseason but you can't argue that the need hasn't changed with the Stroman injury. Crossing your fingers with Stroman might not have been ideal but it's a hell of a lot better than a 100% probability he doesn't contribute. We also don't know that AA ever really had a shot with the free agent SPs in the first place. Maybe his only shot was Hamels and at the time he didn't want to bend over for Amaro Junior knowing there was at least a chance he already had his ace in Stroman. Yes free agent options are better than trades but we don't really know that free agents were on the table for this team. The whole reason AA has made terrible trades in the past is because of the difficutly in attracting free agents. You can criticize those trades sure but you can't just say "insert random free agent instead". For all we know, the only options for this team in the off-season as far as front line pitching goes were deal with Amaro Junior now or deal with Amaro Junior later. If they Jays do end up trading for Hamels, you can't just say "should have signed Scherzer when we had the chance. It's not that simple.

[ScientificReason]

You wrote very weak which implies the rotation wouldn't be much better at all with Stroman in it over Sanchez, which is just not true. It's like if I told you it's warm outside vs hot. Your choice of adjectives matter if you expect people to comprehend what you are saying.

 

 

Regardless it doesn't change much and I can't be bothered trying to defend AA.

 

Not my issue, it is a you issue. You cannot tell the difference between very weak and terrible? Right now the jays pitching is awful, it would still be very weak staff with stroman, pretty big difference. Not my issue you cannot see there is a gap between very weak to one of the worst in all of baseball. Either way, fact is we needed more arms Stroman or no. No Stroman just makes it that much worse.

[HERPDERP]

Not my issue, it is a you issue. You cannot tell the difference between very weak and terrible? Right now the jays pitching is awful, it would still be very weak staff with stroman, pretty big difference. Not my issue you cannot see there is a gap between very weak to one of the worst in all of baseball. Either way, fact is we needed more arms Stroman or no. No Stroman just makes it that much worse.

 

I don't think it would have been a weak staff.

 

Stroman obviously leads the pack, and Dickey and Buehrle are at worst, average starters that go 5. At best, they give you 7 innings with 4 runs or w/e

 

I don't think anybody expected Hutch to look like s*** so far. And the 5th starter I have no problem giving to Norris.

[ScientificReason]

I don't think it would have been a weak staff.

 

Stroman obviously leads the pack, and Dickey and Buehrle are at worst, average starters that go 5. At best, they give you 7 innings with 4 runs or w/e

 

I don't think anybody expected Hutch to look like s*** so far. And the 5th starter I have no problem giving to Norris.

 

Hutch looked like s*** often last year, he is what he is, capable of some good starts but some bad ones. I don't think he will ever be a top of the rotation guy.

[Governator]

 

Hutch looked like s*** often last year, he is what he is, capable of some good starts but some bad ones. I don't think he will ever be a top of the rotation guy.

 

His 2014 xFIP of 3.82 doesn't reflect his 2015 6.67 ERA. He's not nearly as bad as what he's shown thus far.

[KingKat]

His 2014 xFIP of 3.82 doesn't reflect his 2015 6.67 ERA. He's not nearly as bad as what he's shown thus far.

 

True but that only makes him pretty much the pitcher ScientificReason is describing.

[Brownie19]

Are people blaming the Dodgers GM b/c Ryu and McCarthy or the Card's GM b/c Wainwright are/is hurt and they didn't sign a couple extra FA's this offseason to offset those potential loses? Of course they aren't b/c that's stupid.

 

AA was planning on heading into the season with Stroman, Hutch, Dickey, Buehrle and one of Norris/Sanchez. As much as some/most don't like Dickey - that's a perfectly reasonable plan for a winning ball club. Under that scenario, he would have had Norris/Sanchez, Hendriks and Estrada as fall back options. Look around baseball - most good teams would have been happy with that setup - especially when you consider our dominate offense.

[Brownie19]

 

Hutch looked like s*** often last year, he is what he is, capable of some good starts but some bad ones. I don't think he will ever be a top of the rotation guy.

 

And you've completely written off the possibility that a 25 year old pitcher learns to be a more consistent? That's quite the world you live in sir.

[BigCecil]

 

Hutch looked like s*** often last year, he is what he is, capable of some good starts but some bad ones. I don't think he will ever be a top of the rotation guy.

 

We went into season with 3 number 3's and a couple of rookies. With our offense we had enough to win AL East with Stroman imo.

 

Now I don't see us getting it done unless Sanchez and Norris really blossom under the pressure. Possible. The pen is a whole other issue.

 

Stro may have emerged a 1-2 guy this year but with only 20 starts in MLB who knows. When he started mixing in that sinker he was filthy.

 

Every team is going through some of this now though. We all have holes and ifs. Still anyones division.

[BigCecil]

People always talk about consistency and how it's a problem if you're not consistent. There's absolutely nothing wrong with being inconsistent. Do you want a guy who gives up 3 runs in 6 innings every single start? Or a guy who has half his games of 0 runs in 9 innings and half with 6 runs in 3 innings? They are the same pitcher. They provide the same value. There is no difference. Consistency does not need to be desired.

 

Virtually the same principal applies for hitters. "Streaky" and "clutch" hitter adjectives are over rated.

[HERPDERP]

People always talk about consistency and how it's a problem if you're not consistent. There's absolutely nothing wrong with being inconsistent. Do you want a guy who gives up 3 runs in 6 innings every single start? Or a guy who has half his games of 0 runs in 9 innings and half with 6 runs in 3 innings? They are the same pitcher. They provide the same value. There is no difference. Consistency does not need to be desired.

 

Pundits like Keith Law like to s*** on the mental/emotional aspect of the game. I think there is tremendous value in it. So I'd prefer the guy who gives up 3 runs in 6 innings every single start. That gives you a good chance to win each game and probably the series. It can establish momentum and a winning streak.

[Smokey]

You can argue that AA should have acquired a starter in the offseason but you can't argue that the need hasn't changed with the Stroman injury. Crossing your fingers with Stroman might not have been ideal but it's a hell of a lot better than a 100% probability he doesn't contribute.

 

What? "100% probability he doesn't contribute"? Talk about creating a false dichotomy in order to prove a point.

 

We also don't know that AA ever really had a shot with the free agent SPs in the first place. Maybe his only shot was Hamels and at the time he didn't want to bend over for Amaro Junior knowing there was at least a chance he already had his ace in Stroman.

 

But he was quite comfortable getting bent over by the Mets in an attempt to acquire an ace despite having just landed Johnson (who he also thought to an ace). Besides, what's the point of speculating? The guy hasn't assembled a complete roster since he's been here and this year was no exception. Maybe there is a perfectly justifiable explanation as to why he has failed every year or maybe he's just not fit for the job.

 

The whole reason AA has made terrible trades in the past is because of the difficutly in attracting free agents.

 

Smh

 

So the Ismil Rogers trade took place because no other terrible relievers wanted to sign here???

 

You can criticize those trades sure but you can't just say "insert random free agent instead". For all we know, the only options for this team in the off-season as far as front line pitching goes were deal with Amaro Junior now or deal with Amaro Junior later. If they Jays do end up trading for Hamels, you can't just say "should have signed Scherzer when we had the chance. It's not that simple.

 

But can I criticize him for not being able to put together a team that's been realistically projected to win more than 85 games three years after declaring the team is going all-in?? Or should I follow along with the speculation and excuses?!?!

[ScientificReason]

And you've completely written off the possibility that a 25 year old pitcher learns to be a more consistent? That's quite the world you live in sir.

 

I live in the world where Hutch's ceiling is not anything more then a #3.

Edited April 30, 2015 by ScientificReason

[Spanky99]

I live in the world where Hutch's ceiling is not anything more then a #3.

 

lol...he's arguably a 3 now?